19 replies to this topic

[recsa]

Hi,

Some background first, so you can figure what kind of noob player i am:

Some days ago i came to this forums looking for help to get started on the game, i followed the advices given to me and finally i decided to go Hunchback, at the begining i had some troubles finding "my hunchback" but then one day i attached 4 ERLL and adv Zoom to him and it was like a new game for me, i started to make decent scores consistently and most important, enjoying it a lot, so i guess my "play style" is long range sniping.

So i googled for best afordable snipers and a mech came repeatdly, JAGERMECH JS6-S, also i was curious about using Gauss Rifle ... im sold, i worked my ass to get the CBills for it until i had enough for this build i saw in Metamechs ...

It was a dissaster, first matches i thought, np i need to get used to it, its slower and clunkier than my old trusty Hunchie also firing those Gauss is not as easy as lassers, be patient ... but 20-30 matches after that i got decently skilled on the use of the gauss and even got used to been slower than i was, BUT there was still a problem, a BIG problem, i die sooooooooooo easily

And here comes my QUESTION

How should i play this thing? im not sure whats the problem but my side torsos are blown away even faster than in my Hunchback, i have maxed the armor on them, i try to hill crest as much as possible preloading the Gauss, i have tried other builds like dual AC20, Dakka, Lasers, ... i dont know what else to try, its like my side torsos are a magnet to enemy fire and they just .... go BOOM in a couple hits, also ive been unable to make a "decent" build without XL Engine but this thing lacks tonnage for it, so i really feel XL engine is needed but as soon as R or L torso is blown i explode ...

Right now im trying to learn to shield my torso but Jager arms are a soooo small, great for cresting but they dont shield a **** or at least i havent figured out how to properly do it yet.

Is Jagermech so terrible? is it me? (bet this is the problem) any hint on how to play it and dont die in a few shots?

THX.

[John1352]

You look like you've done your research, understand the basics of torso twisting, game mechanics etc.

I'd say the problem you're running into is that 90% of Jagermechs are using XLs, and everybody knows it. As a result, everyone aims for your side torsos (which are really big and not shielded well by the arms).

A few things you can try:
Once a ST is damaged, twist the opposite way, exposing your less damaged side.
Fight alongside a mech that gets targeted more than you do (direwolf is a good example).
Sticking with the team helps everyone to get shot a little bit and keep fighting, rather than one guy getting all the damage and dying.
Keep trying to minimize exposure by using hills.

Putting autocannons on instead (UAC5 is my preference, but other small ones will work too) to screenshake the enemies until they can't hit components properly.

I prefer bigger engines on Jagermechs, even if it means less armor and ammo, 255XL is not bad though, no need to go getting a 300 just right now.

Go here: http://mwomercs.com/...x-localization/ It's important to consider the sizes of hitboxes when deciding to put an XL or not. Jagermech is both bad for XL (big STs) and needs them to find weight for big ballistics.

[dragnier1]

Part of the reason you're having trouble is Alpha strike galore. It's more rampant than a horde of rabbits producing offspring.

Dual gauss is ok. Just make sure you don't fire them separately. Positioning and how the battle moves plays a part. Don't crest at the same area a teammate retreated from enemy fire, they're looking that way.

Edited by dragnier1, 14 October 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

that is why I never recommend a new player look on Methmechs, the DD would have been a better first JM6 as it comes with an XL260, 0.5 tonnes heavier than a 255 but would have saved you about 2 million. also the build is too focused, I would at least want a few lasers for backup weapons.

Dual Gauss is rather lethal in the correct hands, so you will be targeted if anyone sees you, you are well protected from the front but if any other Mech (yes including the SDR-5V which is only able to take at most 2 medium class lasers) gets behind you it will be able to kill you inside 7.5 seconds, and a Firestarter is capable of killing you in 1 second.

with something like that you are a highly specialized build so what ever you do make sure you stick with the team do not run off on your own or a Light Mech will take great pleasure in showing you what a mistake it was to not take any backup weapons or rear armor, I personally would loose 2 tones of ammo to give you a pair of MLs as backup weapons, the JM6 has huge side torsos so it may be worth sacrificing some speed for a smaller standard engine, but that comes with its own problem, if you are too slow you will get left behind.

the Jagermech has really high mounted hardpoints so try to stay hull down, get so you can just about see over a hill and fire, then reverse back down and come back up when the Gauss recharges, that means you are exposing a very small area of the Mech, snd if you make sure not to just keep poking up in exactly the same place your enemy will have trouble hurting you.

that the Dual Gauss excels at is ripping off damaged components, so target the enemy Mechs and aim where the armor is damaged or gone if possible.

it is possible that playstyle is just not for you, lasers are very diferant to the Gauss Rifle, lasers are instant travel but need to be held on target, the Gauss is not speed of light, it does take time for your shell to reach the enemy, the Gauss slug travels as 2,000 meters per second, so if you are firing at something 1km away the Gauss shell will take half a second to reach its target so if the enemy is moving you can miss no matter how well lined up you were, the Gauss and AC2 have the fastest projectiles of any ballistic weapons, most of the ACs have much slower projectiles and I think it travels about 15 times as fast as a LRM.

[SnagaDance]

Just about everything Rogue Jedi said.

And really get some back-up weaponry. All that ammo isn't doing you any good if you die before using it. I personally have 2 ML on my GaussJager, though you could take 4 smalls on the S as well. Maybe later you'll be able to flawlessly shoot of the legs of enemy Lights circling around you at high speed but for now get something to scare them with.

[TheLuc]

I got 3 suggestions that might help out,

this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...380be2da4cab46c

So as first, may not have raw hitting power but can hit from very far, AC2 for poking and harassing, make the opponent screen shake to place those ER Large Laser on center torso or head. The machine guns are in case its needed to shoot back in close quarters.

this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7997ee894177352

AC5s are nothing to sneeze at, they have quite a long range, decent rate of fire and damage output. 4 med lasers plus machine guns for a close punch.

and this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6bd20e807e95ff

4 ER Large lasers, you like em, you got them, only machine guns in the arms as the in case you need. the big plus is that huge engine which make it faster than 2 previous versions. Two of those lasers sits quite low on the Mech so place your weapons groups accordingly.

as last that the setup I use, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...986b01a9f071522

Not much to say, the setup says it all.

NOTE, as you may notice none of the setups suggested are using a XL engine, when playing IS Mechs I think that even with the extra weight, the fact that a more compact engine help to survive longer since losing a side torso wont disable your Mech.

hope it helps

[recsa]

Thx for the replies.

I checked the link from John1352, that explains a lot, those side torso hit boxes are HUGE, that is probably why every single shot fired in the dam battle field seems to land in either my side torsos XDDDD. From now on a more balanced hitboxes size is gonna be one of my top priorities when buying a new mech

For now, i will try those non-XL builds, the thing is i chose JM6 just because the dual Gaus, im getting good at it and its devstating when im not dead , for the 4 ERLL i feel i like more the hunchback, its faster and smaller and seems to not draw so much attention hahahahah

Edited by recsa, 14 October 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Spheroid]

With dual gauss you need to sit well back of front line and just take choice kill shots. Obviously it feels clumsly if you don't have it elited, but the weapon combo is solid.

Edited by Spheroid, 14 October 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[Leone]

I tend to hunt down Jagermechs because they are known for being incredibly dangerous, and not for being incredibly hard to kill. Problem is, your gauss is your best defense. Your best hope to stay alive is that the amount of pinpoint damage you put out keeps folk from wanting to engage you. Problem is, there are mech pilots out there that, instead of fleeing to find easier prey, enjoys a good challenge and will hunt you down.

You have to learn to reposition to keep your allies between you and any one hunting you to really make that mech shine like metamechs means it to. And that of course, is not great for the team, since a good teammate should be up there sharing the damage. Sounds to me your playing like too much of a team player to take an xl heavy mech just now.

~Leone

[DemonicDonut]

Good recommendations here.

Agree with positioning being very important. Also, of you notice someone has noticed you, move. Find a new spot to poke and shoot from.

I don't use XLs in my Jagers anymore. Std 260 is the motor I generally use.

Firebrand with gauss/ppc in one arm and medium lasers in all other slots is my favorite build and uses a std 260. The non-gauss/ppc side is essentially a shield.

Also run dual uac5 with std 260.

[Roughneck45]

Sounds like you just need to get more comfortable with the mech before you use XL engines.

This is what I would start with.
JM6-S
Now, that build can be further optimized by putting Ferro on it, but if you like to change your builds around it may not be worth it. You can then make tweaks to your liking. Engine size, standard or pulse lasers, AC or UAC.

No doubt though, the strongest Jager builds generally use XL engines and have most if not all their firepower in the arms.

If you enjoy them enough, consider getting the Firebrand. I've got a feeling that you would enjoy this build.

Edited by Roughneck45, 14 October 2015 - 09:18 AM.

[Elizander]

You might be taking too long to charge your gauss rifle so you end up staring.

If there is a target lock, charge as you move out of cover so the moment you pop out you shoot and move back in. Otherwise you can only peek when no one is looking at you.

[TheLuc]

Only way I could get a none XL engine setup with dual Gauss is this,

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e1a5fe1529aa31

Depending how you fire the Gauss rifles you have 20 or 40 shots, after that its small lasers, slower than average but most players assume that a Jagermech is running an XL, especially with dual Gauss.

for a Dual Ultra AC5, I would go as this,

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fb06f0881d0949d

always have backups when you know a weapon can jam.

Edited by TheLuc, 14 October 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Koniving]

Random example.

[bayoucowboy]

Most experienced players assume a double Gauss Jager is running an XL engine, so we target the side torso deliberately. We also focus on you because your alpha is so high. That's why you are dying more than in a Hunchie. Same issue with double AC20 Jagers - too deadly to ignore - can get you lots of kills, but you also die a lot if out of position/engage to early

[Koniving]

recsa, on 14 October 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

I checked the link from John1352, that explains a lot, those side torso hit boxes are HUGE, that is probably why every single shot fired in the dam battle field seems to land in either my side torsos XDDDD. From now on a more balanced hitboxes size is gonna be one of my top priorities when buying a new mech

Try a very high concentration of forward armor for your Jagermechs.

Other weapon ideas.

Edited by Koniving, 14 October 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[InspectorG]

If you run Dual Gauss Jager:

Gotta be sneaky, gotta be a wack-a-mole.

Positioning is vital, you need cover, an angle on the enemy, and you 'peek, fire, hide' all quickly which will come with skill.
I deally you want to peek right when the enemy is just done firing and into cooldown.

The scary Gauss Jager is the one you dont see. if on the move stay near assaults because they tend to draw fire...hopefully away from you.
Gauss Jagers are a tasty target so you will be priority so calculate rick accordingly.

[Flak Kannon]

The longer I play this game the more I realize that situational awareness is just as important as weapons, armor, and almost as important as speed.


The Jager is a glass Kannon. It hits like a mack truck, but its flat profile, XL loadouts, and small arms makes it rather fragile.


So... situational awareness is key. Make sure that if your group is moving forward, you are moving forward, but and not at the front, nor at the back at the mercy of the Artic cheetahs, and Firestarters that litter todays battlefields. Guass hit as hard at 300 meters as they do at 650 meters.. so stay close.

You want to play very focused on the minimap. Watch the flow, of both your own team and the enemy. Avoid shooting at the faster moving mechs. Make your shots count, so target slower mechs early in the game or mechs that have come to a full stop.

When you can see the enemy, they in turn can see you. Fire your gauss and immediately twist away one direction, then another. You do not need to keep your eyes downrange in a guass Jager.. turn away.

Lastly, don't be too eager too early. The Dual Gauss mech shines best when other mechs have sustained some level of torso damage. You kill alot more the 2nd half of a match than you will the 1st half. Let all the other mechs on your team unload. Early on you just dent that Dire, later on, you PUNCTURE and kill that dire. See if you can make it to the later stages of matches fresher. Keep in mind sometime the team wipes regardless....


Enjoi

[Inveramsay]

The dual Gauss's jager isn't easy to use. The dps is poor if someone catches you, the gauss are harder to hit with and the massive side torsos are easily taken out. That said if you know how to play it, it is deadly which is why it is a priority target.

If you want to use gauss maybe try dropping one and put some large and medium lasers with a standard engine instead of using the dual gauss. It makes you slightly less deadly at long ranges but gives you a lot more survivability and back up at short ranges

[Audacious Aubergine]

Elizander, on 14 October 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

You might be taking too long to charge your gauss rifle so you end up staring.

If there is a target lock, charge as you move out of cover so the moment you pop out you shoot and move back in. Otherwise you can only peek when no one is looking at you.

Another gauss tip I saw in another thread - assign them to every single weapon group, even if you only use primary (left click). If they're assigned to every group, every one of those rectangles around your targeting reticle will change colour accordingly (yellow for charging, green for ready, red for recycling) This is much easier to see than just a single one or looking at your weapons list in the bottom corner

Edited by FreebirthToad18999, 15 October 2015 - 03:00 AM.