12 replies to this topic

[FuzzyNova]

MWO isn't the best game to give you tutorials on certain things or keep you up to date on new stuff. What's up with all this talk about lasers and having to lock your target otherwise you lose distance of something? Or dmg? I'm probably getting it mixed up but could someone explain.

[Koniving]

It is not yet in the game. Thus no explanation in game.
(Post is finished.)

Okay, so the game currently has a huge issue with instantaneous convergence, pinpoint damage, front loaded damage, etc. This is made even worse by Clan Omni (not Battle) mech customization on hardpoints. Stack energy weapons, point at something, hold on target and watch it disintegrate.
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PGI's doing a number of things to address this because server controlled delayed convergence is unfair to those with lag (1 second delay? Well with a ping of over 300m/s, that 1 second delay + mechs aren't where they appear + lots of things = impossible to hit anything, lasers flying in all sorts of directions and bullets flying into the sky).

For the first, I must explain the current max range rule. The max range rule as of right now is: "Optimum stated range * 2" for most weapons.

Example: Inner Sphere medium laser stated optimum range 270 meters.

270 meters times 2 = 540 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

Clan ER medium laser stated optimum range: 405 meters.

405 meters times 2 = 810 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

IS large pulse laser stated optimum range 365 meters.

365 meters times 2 = 730meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

Clan large pulse laser stated optimum range: 600 meters.

600 meters times 2 = 1200 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

There are exceptions (LBX, Gauss, MGs, Flamers, all missiles). Thus the first change we are seeing is the new rule for Clan lasers as follows: Optimum stated range times 2 - 40%. Or optimum stated range times 1.2 = max. This still clearly outclasses IS lasers but still gives them some kind of chance, as your damages will stop altogether at about the same range. Clan lasers will definitely be hitting harder and much farther for full damage still as they always had. It just won't be so unfair.

Example: Inner Sphere medium laser stated optimum range 270 meters.

270 meters times 2 = 540 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

Clan ER medium laser stated optimum range: 405 meters.

405 meters times 2-40% = 486 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

IS large pulse laser stated optimum range 365 meters.

365 meters times 2 = 730meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

Clan large pulse laser stated optimum range: 600 meters.

600 meters times 2 - 40% = 720 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

Remember that the -40% is an adjustable placeholder being tested.

The IS ML currently does 5 damage at 270. At the Clan's 405 meters, the IS ML does 2.5 damage.
The Clan ER ML does 7 damage at 405 meters. (IS ML is 1 ton, 2.5 damage at 405 meters. Clan ER ML is 1 ton, 7 damage at 405 meters.)
This is all current. What changes is the 600+ meter 3+ damage the ER ML does for Clan mechs.

Thus upcoming, Clan ER ML 3.111(repeating) damage at 450 meters, against IS ML 1.666666666666667(rounded) damage at 450 meters. However Clan damage stops Dead at 486 meters, and IS is still doing 0.5555555555555556 at 510 meters (and 0 at 540).

Meaning that IS lasers are pathetically weak, but they still do something farther than Clans and their all powerful stuff. This rule applies to CLAN lasers only.

(Makes me wonder what they will do for the overpowered pinpoint nature of IS ACs....IS has the only instant kill on ANY mech weapon setup in the game.)
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In order to explain the second, I must first mention that instead of universal stats for all mech sensors, all mechs will be unique to some degree in the range of their sensors. Assault mechs will have the lowest, and light mechs will have the highest.

Now this said...
The real detail I know is you will not do full damage unless you can target "lock" the enemy mech. (Not sure if there's a lock on thing going on or what.... this does make slight sense considering that ECM jams many spectrums... radio, television, broadband, communication, etc. waves are all light... as are lasers. Since ECM is going to delay locks, this means possibly disrupting lasers unless attuned to their frequency; yes this means ECM mechs will have a 'brief' damage shield against laser weaponry until you can get that lock).

It basically means the "Peekaboo" bullcrap that people are doing with lasers won't work quite as well without a scout keeping the enemy marked. This also makes the field more fair for lighter, easier to kill mechs. Lets face it the mentality for most is that lights are worthless and mediums too easy to kill. This puts the advantage in their favor as their sensors are superior.

That said:

At range with identical ER Large Laser weapons, the light has the advantage over the assault mech. Light can target and lock. Assault mech cannot. Therefore, advantage light with full damage for laser weapons.

If assault mech has the support of a light mech -- say an urban mech, slow, lumbering, meant to support bigger things -- then it too can fight at the same ranges as the enemy light that has been harassing him. Provided the simple caveat that the supporting light mech can see and therefore mark the target.

This seems to be an attempt to make information warfare a little more significant.

The second rule about target "locks" is true for BOTH sides.

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I hope this explains it.

Edited by Koniving, 15 October 2015 - 07:49 AM.

[Tesunie]

It's in the Public Test Servers (PTS). Its a temporary change on that server only for testing and feedback from the public.

It's not live in the game, and probably wouldn't be going live without changes (or not for a long while at least).

You need not fear. As Koniving said, it's not in the game, so don't worry about it. (Unless you wish to test and provide feedback yourself, which would require you to download the PTS program. (It's a separate program/game from the one used for normal play. If you wish to pursue this, mention and I'll explain more. If not, play on and worry not.)

[no one]

Koniving, on 15 October 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

PGI's doing a number of things to address this because server controlled delayed convergence is unfair to those with lag (1 second delay? Well with a ping of over 300m/s, that 1 second delay + mechs aren't where they appear + lots of things = impossible to hit anything, lasers flying in all sorts of directions and bullets flying into the sky).

Doesn't seem like it should be much different than running HSR on the instant reticule convergence on moving targets we have now. You can , right now, end up firing on a target and have your weapons focus on some patch of dirt 2km behind your target.

I'm disparaging of the laser balance. It shows that PGI's still not interested in fixing core mechanics or doing asymmetric balance. More bland homogenized mosh pit of all tech forever, huzzah.

Edited by no one, 15 October 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 15 October 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

*All this crazy stuff*

Won't this just increase the incentive to play those horrible Raven ERLL snipers I hate so very much? Heck, *I* might even get one.

Also, talk smack about clan lasers being better all you want, but for straight-up murder you can't beat the IS LPL. The burn time is too short, and you can get 3 sans ghost heat.

[Koniving]

Tim East, on 15 October 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Won't this just increase the incentive to play those horrible Raven ERLL snipers I hate so very much? Heck, *I* might even get one.

Also, talk smack about clan lasers being better all you want, but for straight-up murder you can't beat the IS LPL. The burn time is too short, and you can get 3 sans ghost heat.

You're right, it would encourage that behavior. It might be worth noting that all quirks so far as weapons and heat are getting removed, so the b.s. the Ravens do would be gone... and any light mech can do it...at 675 meters.

Then again, it seemed as if the assault mechs were getting sensors that went up to 600 meters (though I don't know for sure and haven't tested it out).... so it won't mean that much.

And I know IS LPL can't be beat, but that's one weapon system with an exploit that PGI created. Because PGI.
You know I have a load of my own ideas.

Some day. Some day.

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 15 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

You're right, it would encourage that behavior. It might be worth noting that all quirks so far as weapons and heat are getting removed, so the b.s. the Ravens do would be gone... and any light mech can do it...at 675 meters.

Then again, it seemed as if the assault mechs were getting sensors that went up to 600 meters (though I don't know for sure and haven't tested it out).... so it won't mean that much.

And I know IS LPL can't be beat, but that's one weapon system with an exploit that PGI created. Because PGI.
You know I have a load of my own ideas.

Some day. Some day.

Wow, I have to pay more attention. I didn't realize they were cutting weapon quirks. Are they going to rely on hitboxes+hardpoints for balance again? Or are there supposed to be some kind of upcoming mobility quirk adjustments or something?

[Koniving]

Tim East, on 15 October 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

Wow, I have to pay more attention. I didn't realize they were cutting weapon quirks. Are they going to rely on hitboxes+hardpoints for balance again? Or are there supposed to be some kind of upcoming mobility quirk adjustments or something?

Lets see.
Each mech is supposed to use some sort of copy of the StarCitizen Pentagon for balance (which was used to describe their missile systems where some would have more homing and speed, others more power and maneuverability, some more this and that, etc...and more of one thing drains from others).

Anyway... I can't recall them all as I hadn't done more than a passing glance between sessions of Metal Gear V missions, but... I know it includes sensors, mobility, armor/structure quirks, and two other things. These are NOT to include weapon or heat based quirks. Paul seemed rather explicit about that.

ECM is getting retuned. Don't quote me on this, but I would not be surprised if hardpoint counts 'might' get changed in some cases of over inflation or under inflation (Atlas K....)

The changes are going to be per variant, as well, so no universal stuff. That means each of the Stalkers might be more different than you think.

[Viken]

Koniving, on 15 October 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

Clan ER medium laser stated optimum range: 405 meters.

405 meters times 2-40% = 486 meters max dead range (0 damage). Anything less, you do damage.

Remember that the -40% is an adjustable placeholder being tested.

The 40% was from the Max Distance compared to the Optimal Distance, not the Overall Distance.

So, instead of a C-ERML going from 810 to 486 as listed above, it's 405 (Optimal) + (Old Max[810] * .6) 243 = 648 Max Distance. It still has the original optimal of 405.

This is as it was explained by Phil (Sean Lang) last night on his stream while on the PTR. Optimal ranges are not changing, but max range is no longer Optimal x2. Still a nerf, but not QUITE as bad as believed.

Edited by Viken, 15 October 2015 - 11:31 AM.

[Koniving]

Viken, on 15 October 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

The 40% was from the Max Distance compared to the Optimal Distance, not the Overall Distance.

So, instead of a C-ERML going from 810 to 486 as listed above, it's 405 (Optimal) + (Old Max[810] * .6) 243 = 648 Max Distance. It still has the original optimal of 405.

This is as it was explained by Phil (Sean Lang) last night on his stream while on the PTR. Optimal ranges are not changing, but max range is no longer Optimal x2. Still a nerf, but not QUITE as bad as believed.

Good to know.

So expressly from the additional distance. In which case the lasers are still incredibly far reaching just not as bad as now and not as balanced as I had gathered. Joy.

[Viken]

Koniving, on 15 October 2015 - 11:56 AM, said:

Good to know.

So expressly from the additional distance. In which case the lasers are still incredibly far reaching just not as bad as now and not as balanced as I had gathered. Joy.

Well, yes and no AGAIN. Paul posted ( http://mwomercs.com/...harts-for-pts2/ ) clarification. He has pretty pictures and graphs to explain it.

[Koniving]

So it boils down to a simple:

Press R to enable full damage and tell everyone where the enemy is!

[FuzzyNova]

Great googly moogly!!! That was so much detailed information. Thanks. I now know more than I ever would have. If or when it happens I'll be sure to hit R. I do this anyways but now more than ever.