75 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

sycocys, on 15 October 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

I'm all for discussing for/against it. But the vast majority of the against thus far has been -it's bad, it's stupid, why?- with very few people actually willing to in any way shape or form have any sort of discussion that is counter to those particular points.

A few that will, most of the against has come across as nothing more than being part of the "I hate change" crowd. And that's unfortunate.

That goes both ways. People in support are not giving much reason why beyond being part of the "change for the sake of change" crowd. Not everyone is going to be able, or willing to put forth the effort to explain in detail why they feel the way the do about the changes. That doesn't mean they should not be heard. Most game developers actually care about what something feels like and if it is fun. A 20 page paper with charts and graphs really isn't needed if all you are trying to say is that the changes feel like crap and make the game less than enjoyable.

Point being is that claiming people should stop complaining because its just a test or just a beta is rather absurd. When something is being tested is the best time to be giving feedback good or bad, and sometimes short and simple gets the point across quicker and more forcibly than an overly verbose wall of text.

[50 50]

It might just be a small tweak in your attack run though Darian.
You have luxury of speed to sit at range, find a target you want to harass and then move in when you already have the target locked.
With the increased sensor range on the mech, if you have line of sight, you can pick out the target at over 1000m away without any additional sensor modules.

It's also only a 50m difference, and still well within your maximum range.
If you don't have a target locked already, even looking at your target for the briefest of moments will cause the lock and focus the weapons.

The change with the lasers is fairly minor really. What the test is focussing more on is how some of these new sensor mechanics can work with the weapons.

All up I believe it's a good step and brings some added detail to the game.
How it starts to combine in the next phase and what adjustments are made will be interesting to see.

Now... can someone explain the target information sharing to me?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

If anything, I think a few changes to the percent change would work.

So Larges could stay at the current 60%, Mediums get a bump to 75%, and Smalls could go to 90% or no change.


So SPLs at 121 M would only drop to 108.9 M for example.

Or MPLs at 220 M go down to 165 M.

[Scurry]

Praetor Knight, on 15 October 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

If anything, I think a few changes to the percent change would work.

So Larges could stay at the current 60%, Mediums get a bump to 75%, and Smalls could go to 90% or no change.


So SPLs at 121 M would only drop to 108.9 M for example.

Or MPLs at 220 M go down to 165 M.

This, plus better controls for targeting. Absolutely critical if they want to put this into place.

[TyphonCh]

It's a not half bad system. Best bet would be to balance it on a laser to laser basis. Large lasers could be %60 drop off, medium lasers %75, small lasers %90, etc. Better yet round it to the nearest whole number so you don't get some wonky number like 243m for a c-erml

Edited by Team Chevy86, 15 October 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Optimal range should never be effected

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Darian DelFord, on 15 October 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

My display is reading 73 meters and that is with the Range module. Why don't I just tap dance for them to.

Or you could just use a light for scouting and spotting as intended, instead of trying to pretend it's a heavy

[Cementi]

If you do not like it simple......press R.

Seriously it is not a big deal and it is not a 60% reduction in damage. All it does is if you do not lock your target your damage begins to decrease at 60% of your optimal range instead of 100% of optimal range, your maximum range is not affected at all.

If that is not clear enough here is a chart that is done up for IS medium lasers. It is not that complicated. If this does not help I do not know what will. This is the link for the post with the info. http://mwomercs.com/...harts-for-pts2/



Oh and for those saying they are getting lower damage on test server......I have not noticed that but then I have always pressed R.

[Cementi]

I like 60% across all lasers as it is enough to be noticeable, much less and it will be ignored.

A small laser having 90% range while not locked will not even be noticeable. The difference is literally from 135 to 121.5 (13.5) for small lasers and 110 to 99 (11m) for small pulse lasers. Not enough to change a pilots behavior so it would be meaningless. If you want to get in and backstab an assault with small lasers or small pulse lasers then you need to get into your optimum range. If you want to make the most out of it then make sure you press R before you get close to that range.

With the current PTS if you cannot be bothered to press R then Small lasers have a 81m optimum and Small Pulse have a 66m optimum while maximums stay the same. Thats a difference of 54m, and 44m respectfully. Any less than 35m IMO is not enough of a change to really make pilots adjust their play. So they might be able to back it off a bit but I hope they do not or if they do put it no more than 70% range. Any more than that and it becomes meaningless.

[Pale Jackal]

Nerfing laser vomit, and lasers, is fine. I just wish they would use the variables they already have (range, heat, damage, duration, cooldown) rather than adding another unintuitive mechanic.

[MischiefSC]

You don't need paperdoll, just a solid red dorito. Hit r.

[MischiefSC]

Pale Jackal, on 15 October 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Nerfing laser vomit, and lasers, is fine. I just wish they would use the variables they already have (range, heat, damage, duration, cooldown) rather than adding another unintuitive mechanic.

Agreed universal nerf affects every laser in every situation. There are a lot of E only mechs. This is a good way to blunt the edge of laser vomit while letting you spike your performance back to current levels with adequate effort.

Also it adds real value to IW. I was hugely critical of IW at first. To make it useful you need to give information battlefield value. This ties that in and that has value in gameplay.

Play with it enough. Maybe a module will let you use a teammates locks as your own for this, etc. As a concept though it has more merit than a flat nerf.

Edited by MischiefSC, 15 October 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[GorlockTheDestroyer]

Global ER Laser Change

The effect of adding just 2 letters instantly makes Inouye's bad idea into a less bad idea.

Now this global er laser change affects c-erll, c-erm, c-small(unfortunate) and IS ERll. This is no way affects IS meds leaving this already quirk needing weapon alone.

But what about the c-lpl and c-mpl? Bring them in line with their IS counterparts leaving, i hope, some clan tech flavor to them.

Clan Max Laser Range is a good idea. Now paired with a Global ER Laser Change makes sense.
This leaves the spirit of Inouye's original idea intact, while not forcing just plain bad 162m mediums on the IS.
It also is in keeping with the spirit and intention of the lock on mechanic but in a far more intuitive manner.

BTW i mainly play 2 clan mechs crow , nova but this 162m thing just sits so wrong with me.

P.S. Both original suggested changes currently running on PTS do very little to actually control laser vomit.

[Darian DelFord]

Cementi, on 15 October 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

If you do not like it simple......press R.

Seriously it is not a big deal and it is not a 60% reduction in damage. All it does is if you do not lock your target your damage begins to decrease at 60% of your optimal range instead of 100% of optimal range, your maximum range is not affected at all.

If that is not clear enough here is a chart that is done up for IS medium lasers. It is not that complicated. If this does not help I do not know what will. This is the link for the post with the info. http://mwomercs.com/...harts-for-pts2/



Oh and for those saying they are getting lower damage on test server......I have not noticed that but then I have always pressed R.

Simple as pressing R?

Hop in a Jenner, Get up to Speed, Now Twist, Maneuver, Take a Shot, Jump, Turn, Juimp Turn, Take a Shot at another mech, Maneuver, Jump Turn, Look for a Way out, Trip on a Rock and tell me when the hell you have time to press R

This change effects lights more than anything, we have to be nimble and quick. I use SPL's as my main weapons and I can assure you the 60% Change in Max Damage range is huge. My damage is now down by about 150 points per match.

My Optimal range has droped from 121 meters to 73 meters with the module. That is a change of 57 meters, for a light that is huge. We do not have the luxuoury of most Heavies and Assaults to be able to lumber along and just shoot. We actually have to be able to 10 things at once. Now your adding on something else we have only so many fingers

Edited by Darian DelFord, 15 October 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Cementi]

At the risk of inciting more rage I will mention the delayed lock features tested last PTS.

That will also affect lasers if they were to add that in. Before you freak out though remember all these values are test and may or may not proceed to live.

Also long range laser vommit is most definately VERY much affected. I ran a few matches sniping outside of my sensor range with a ER Large jester......ya didnt do alot of damage. Put on advanced sensors and bap.....big damage increase. So ya it will affect laser vommit.

[Cementi]

I have been running lights as well, and am fine. It is not a max damage range nerf either please stop saying that.

[Anarcho]

Ppl dont see the advantages of this system...

*Values infotech and scout/tagger mechs
*Reduce laser sniping
*Promotes the use of tgts lock
*Makes run and gun harder
*Gives sniper weapons a new life (gauss and ppcs)
*Requires more skill in combat (time to lock the tgt you want instead of just scan everything with er large lasers)

[Benjamin Davion]

No, Darian has hit the nail on the head here, this is yet another stealth nerf on lights. I probably spend 60-75% of my time in lights. My Spider, Firestarters, and Ravens all have ~2+ KDRs. The simple fact is, if you know what you're doing in a light as far as staying alive is concerned, you do not have the time to lock up every target you engage. On approach to a target or against a single opponent, sure, fine. But during a brawl, I am frequently diving in and out of a fight, probably engaging 4-5 targets before withdrawing to cool off and reposition. I MAY get locks on 2 or 3 of those targets.
With results like these:


For sniping lights like the Raven this is even worse. The Ravens are most effective as ERLL/LL snipers where they can break cover, fire, and immediately disappear again. They are excellent vertical peaking snipers. Being forced to acquire a lock means dramatically increased face time, which means exponentially greater risk of return fire and destruction. To prove I know what I'm doing in Ravens, before that comes up:


Old photo, old unit, but I don't drive my Ravens all that much any more.

Under the new system, instead of breaking cover, firing 2 ERLL to a single panel that I visually acquired and disappearing again, in order to do full damage, I have to break cover, sit there and wait for a lock, which may not even be possible to acquire, then fire. In the meantime, anyone who cares to take a shot at my vulnerable ass is free to do so. Or I can fight in the old way, pop up, acquire target like always, fire, and scurry away, but it now means a hard 40% reduction to my total effectiveness. That is the absolute definition of a nerf.

[Darian DelFord]

Cementi, on 15 October 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

I have been running lights as well, and am fine. It is not a max damage range nerf either please stop saying that.

It is a damage Nerf if you do not have the Target Locked and are beyond 73 Meters for SPL's with the module. So yes it is damage range nerf.

Lights are the most affected by this change, and Small and Small Pulse Lasers for many anything. They will need to decrease that percentage unless they want lights to go even lower in the queue percentages

[sycocys]

The ranges will undoubtedly get re-adjusted. That 60% isn't going to stay a blanket 60% if we keep this system.

Taking a pretty good guess I'm standing by my notion that as we go further along SL and SPL ranges will very likeley have the least drop in range. I would estimate it will end up in the 10-15% maaaybe 20% off which will still make people adjust their approaches but isn't going to do much but reduce the peek and 8SPL vomit a little as it will at least force them out and moving between cover to make such things possible.