38 replies to this topic

[SaltBeef]

Shooting Legs and you Lose Massive Honor...... Shooting a mech already targeted or engaged in Honorable Combat YOU LOSE MASSIVE HONOR and your mech BOX turns BRIGHT PURPLE!! Bright PURPLE means anyone can target you for a HUGE BONUS and HONOR for KILLING your dishonorable ASS! No matter what the team.

[Leggin Ho]

Davers, on 16 October 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

You have no proof of 10v12 being the best idea. It's not even an idea based on TT- it's just from the fluff fiction. At least TT actually tried to balance them (and it is closer to 24-12 then 12-10). How is balancing 12 v 10 easier than 12 v 12? Are those extra 2 mechs light, medium, heavy, or assault?

While I am sure many IS players would jump at the chance for pure ISvIS queues, I don't think that is the direction we want to take the game.

For one it's not 2 extra mechs in a CW drop it's a total of 8 mechs, so your telling me that would not make a difference in CW play? Instead we get stupid and poorly thought out things like Ghost heat and removing any advantage of range due to the once again limitations that PGI has applied. I've ran other ladders and Planetary style in leagues in MW 4 and and they all lasted for years by balancing the numbers/tonnage in game and not attempting to balance teamwork and skill by handicapping teams that actually use teamwork and skill. New players should not just jump into the game and expect to beat players and teams that have put time into learning the game and getting better, yet the PUG que is always thrown out there as why these stupid changes are thrown at the community as a band aid to skill.

[Mike McSullivan]

I had a very nice Zellbriggen situation today in a CW/Boreal fight.
We already lost the fight (must have been 20/45 Kills for the Clanners) and me (in my Raven) and a Firestarter were the last men standing...or lets say running. They pushed us back to our landing zone and we lost the Firestarter. Normally you see a gazillion lasers and boom: ggclose. But not in that fight.
In the first moment i thought, "damned my game chrashed. They are not shooting back, whats going on here?"
Finally someone got me, but that was a very nice experience. Thanks to the other team, who really fought like clanners! TOP!

on Topic: instead of hard restrictions, just raise the reward for clanner-solo kills and reduce for them the other killrewards (a bit).

[Davers]

Leggin Ho, on 17 October 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

For one it's not 2 extra mechs in a CW drop it's a total of 8 mechs, so your telling me that would not make a difference in CW play? Instead we get stupid and poorly thought out things like Ghost heat and removing any advantage of range due to the once again limitations that PGI has applied. I've ran other ladders and Planetary style in leagues in MW 4 and and they all lasted for years by balancing the numbers/tonnage in game and not attempting to balance teamwork and skill by handicapping teams that actually use teamwork and skill. New players should not just jump into the game and expect to beat players and teams that have put time into learning the game and getting better, yet the PUG que is always thrown out there as why these stupid changes are thrown at the community as a band aid to skill.

8 mechs? You mean CW will be 96v48? What would the tonnage limits be? Is this your idea of a balanced game?

[Summon3r]

Monkey Lover, on 16 October 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Sounds like a good idea but I have never seen a clan team fight independently. I don't think I will unless you make them take damage if they get to close to other clan mechs ha-ha.


Best idea is still 9or10 v 12 but its not going to work with the pugs. Seeing the pugs are the biggest group we have we need to balance clan mechs.

yup, add a battle value for pug matches and MM accordingly whether its through numbers or types of mechs

[Sjorpha]

I have nothing against the idea of making rewards tuned to faction lore, that would be pretty cool and thematic.

But it has absolutely zero relevance to game balance, because above a certain level of play reward no longer matters. Only gameplay factors that leads to winning or losing matters, and that is where you need to balance the game/mechs/factions.

I stopped caring for rewards some time ago, I care about gameplay and winning. Your change wouldn't affect my approach to the game so the only result I'd see would be even worse balance that we already have.

[Leggin Ho]

Davers, on 17 October 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

8 mechs? You mean CW will be 96v48? What would the tonnage limits be? Is this your idea of a balanced game?

Maybe you don't do math well, but 4 mechs x 10 pilots for clan is 40 mechs total, 4 mechs x 12 pilots is 48 mechs total, tonnage per player would stay at 240 max, but the IS would still have 8 extra mechs because of the two extra pilots per CW drop, not sure I can break it down any more "Barney" style for you but maybe you understand what I was talking about now.

[Davers]

Leggin Ho, on 17 October 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

Maybe you don't do math well, but 4 mechs x 10 pilots for clan is 40 mechs total, 4 mechs x 12 pilots is 48 mechs total, tonnage per player would stay at 240 max, but the IS would still have 8 extra mechs because of the two extra pilots per CW drop, not sure I can break it down any more "Barney" style for you but maybe you understand what I was talking about now.

Nah, don't like it. I still don't see how that is any easier to balance than a 1 to 1 ratio. But I don't think you are much interested in balance as in keeping Clan mechs more powerful than IS mechs. Thanks for the "Barney version" though.

[Whatzituyah]

Davers, on 17 October 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

Nah, don't like it. I still don't see how that is any easier to balance than a 1 to 1 ratio. But I don't think you are much interested in balance as in keeping Clan mechs more powerful than IS mechs. Thanks for the "Barney version" though.

That doesn't sound even close to "Barney Style" if were thinking the same thing from our childhood. Why not give the IS more cannon equipment choices like IS Light Fusion Engine to mimic the Clan XL Engine and stuff.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 17 October 2015 - 09:11 PM.

[Rhent]

It should have been 10 clan (missing 1 assault and 1 heavy a drop) vs 12 IS.

[Whatzituyah]

Rhent, on 17 October 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

It should have been 10 clan (missing 1 assault and 1 heavy a drop) vs 12 IS.

That would be too hard for the match maker and it would take awhile for both sides you really want that?

[Davers]

Whatzituyah, on 17 October 2015 - 09:09 PM, said:

That doesn't sound even close to "Barney Style" if were thinking the same thing from our childhood. Why not give the IS more cannon equipment choices like IS Light Fusion Engine to mimic the Clan XL Engine and stuff.

So we just give up on trying to balance the current game by replacing all standard engines and half the XL ones with LFE? Then we can balance the weapons by getting rid of all IS lasers and replacing them with ER versions too? Why not just scrap everything and just start at a different era as well?

We need to find the answers with what we have now, not wait for PGI to add new stuff to buy to create balance sometime in the future.

Rhent, on 17 October 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

It should have been 10 clan (missing 1 assault and 1 heavy a drop) vs 12 IS.

10v12 only existed in a novel. It never had anything to do with how the games were actually balanced.

[Whatzituyah]

Davers, on 17 October 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

So we just give up on trying to balance the current game by replacing all standard engines and half the XL ones with LFE? Then we can balance the weapons by getting rid of all IS lasers and replacing them with ER versions too? Why not just scrap everything and just start at a different era as well?

We need to find the answers with what we have now, not wait for PGI to add new stuff to buy to create balance sometime in the future.


10v12 only existed in a novel. It never had anything to do with how the games were actually balanced.

The problem with 10v12 was the match maker. Besides is it fair that Clans have tech we do not have? Answer that one please. Also if your worried about giving up things for other things that ship has sailed like twice. Everyone uses Endo Steel over Ferro Fibrous and everyone uses Double Heatsinks over Singles. The only reason I could think of why people wouldn't use Doubles is that it wouldn't fit like the Urban Mech 60 engine you cant fit all 10 on the mech but its more that the engine itself has 10 true dubs with 250 rating and up engines.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 17 October 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[Davers]

Whatzituyah, on 17 October 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

The problem with 10v12 was the match maker. Besides is it fair that Clans have tech we do not have? Answer that one please.

How is making every Clan mech worth 1.2 IS mechs any easier to balance than making it a 1-1 ratio?

No, it is not fair- that was the whole point of the Clans. Which works great in a story, or in a miniatures game where the IS player had a 2-1 advantage in numbers. But it is ZERO fun to have that kind of imbalance in a FPS. But, it is A Battletech Game, which means there are certain grossly unbalanced things that must be included, like Clan XL engines, or players will cry.

The goal was to make the Clans "equal but different". Which is a really difficult thing to do because the Clans were designed to be superior in every single way to the IS. But that is the goal. Can it be done? I don't know. I am waiting to see how the Rebalance plays out. Maybe they will have to add LFEs in the game, especially after the IIc mechs come out (I honestly thought PGI wasn't going to include them since they are potentially more powerful than any Clan mech in game right now). But if PGI's balance solution is to force every IS player to buy new expensive engines for all their mechs then they really shouldn't have placed the game at 3050.

[Leggin Ho]

I'm not talking "lore" or TT, I've seen the numbers game balance out, tone down some of the clan weapons and get rid of stupid quirks for both sides. Heck I'd even go so far as to say give the clans 210 tons and the IS keep 240 with the 10 vs 12. All the quirks and other crap they have added for "balance" only hurts the new players who have no clue and screw with the balance of teams that are equal in skill but prefer different tech to play the game. Make the IS XL's like the clans that to me is a no brainer, but get rid of all the quirk crap that make a laser on one mech hit harder, run cooler and hit at a greater distance out of the game, you know that old saying KISS, will it applies here instead of all the crap you have to keep up with and wonder why you see only players running the META mechs and weapons, because of the quirks the rest of the mechs they have available is "Meh".

[SaltBeef]

Could easily be done by dropping 2 inanimate objects from the Dropships, Cargo container, Radar package, Crates of MRE's It is server side just assign 2 drop slot to the server s every game they spam inanimate objects.

Whatzituyah, on 17 October 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

That would be too hard for the match maker and it would take awhile for both sides you really want that?

Davers, on 17 October 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

So we just give up on trying to balance the current game by replacing all standard engines and half the XL ones with LFE? Then we can balance the weapons by getting rid of all IS lasers and replacing them with ER versions too? Why not just scrap everything and just start at a different era as well?

We need to find the answers with what we have now, not wait for PGI to add new stuff to buy to create balance sometime in the future.


10v12 only existed in a novel. It never had anything to do with how the games were actually balanced.

Edited by SaltBeef, 17 October 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[SaltBeef]

Could have been even better in CW,.. drop air droppable turrets ,(mostly med to short range only) in mechs slot to defend the dropznone. At drop the drop zone has added defense when the game is ending if your team loses retreat to the dropzone and fight from the supported secondary battle position near the turret defenses and radar package.

Edited by SaltBeef, 17 October 2015 - 10:45 PM.

[Davers]

SaltBeef, on 17 October 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

Could have been even better in CW,.. drop air droppable turrets ,(mostly med to short range only) in mechs slot to defend the dropznone. At drop the drop zone has added defense when the game is ending if your team loses retreat to the dropzone and fight from the supported secondary battle position near the turret defenses and radar package.

Deployable turrets as consumables was mentioned at one point, but I guess never actually done.

[Dino Might]

Making one side OP and balancing with numbers will not lead to a fun game for a majority of the players.
Think about it this way. Starcraft has zerg (mass numbers of low power troops) vs Protoss (few number of high power troops). It's fun for both sides because one person controls the entire side.

But now, make it an FPS. You don't control all 100 zerglings. You control one zergling, with 99 other players controlling the others. And now you charge against 24 zealots, each controlled by one player. And you run in and get chopped up in seconds, and your match is over. But, you get to watch the rest of your remaining team overwhelm the other guy and your side eventually wins. How much fun did you have in your 10 seconds of battle? Not much? I can't understand why someone wouldn't want to play as the cannon fodder in mass assault waves...why oh why would someone ever want to be the overwhelmed but super powered warrior fighting off a horde of weak enemies, slaughtering everything before him?

Seriously, noboby would play IS horde mode because their individual contribution would be insignificant. Everyone would flock to Clans, moreso than they do now, because it's more fun to kill 5 mechs and lose the game than it is to kill no mechs and win.