38 replies to this topic

[Undercover Brother]

FLAME ON!!!

(If you're gonna hate on me, at least read the entire post first)

The almighty NERF bat is in full swing on Clan tech now, on Quirks, on weapons, and on pretty much anything anyone wants to gripe about. Of course, this'll then lead to yet MORE META builds, and MORE whining, and yet more NERFs.

For the sake of the Lore (I can hear you groaning already), I'd like to make a few little observations, and maybe throw out an idea or two, that can allow us to throw away the damn NERF bats FOREVER (NERF hasn't been cool since the late 80s anyway. Come on! It's been 30 years!)

The Clans are supposed to be superior in every way...
...When you run into a solo one in a dark alley.

Clans have better range, and lower heat. That's just the way it is. I think most of us can agree (at least those who have USED Clan mechs in the game) that the OMNI system actually hamstrings us more than the I.S. counterparts, which is fine. I won't argue with that. Even despite that, people who aren't diehard BT/MW fans want Clan tech to be neutered so that the game is "fair". Honestly, get taken down in a pristine Timberwolf, by two damaged Commandos, and then come crying to me about "fairness".

THAT is where the I.S. ALWAYS has the advantage. The I.S. fights DIRTY. They like to get in close with powerful Autocannons, and SRMs, and chew you to pieces, while you try to maneuver to hit them with your overheated, ER beam weapons...

AH HA! There's your answer!

Did you see that?

Inner Sphere mech warfare relies on teamwork, and brute force, whatever the cost. Clan warfare is all about one on one fighting. No waste. It's why all Clan mechs center on energy weapons.

Stay with me here.

I propose revamping the rewards system across the board. Make Clan players fight more independently, and reward teamwork to I.S. players. Emphasize kills, captures, and assists on the I.S. side. Emphasize honor and independence for Clan players by penalizing a teammate who kills an enemy that has already been 70% destroyed by someone else. Add a targeting flag over the top of enemy mechs, so that you can know if a team member is actively engaged with that enemy, so you know who to avoid. Give bigger bonuses to those who single handedly take down the most mechs. Also, penalize Clan warriors who are wasteful (missed hits with any weapon that uses ammunition).

If you were to implement this, we could actually reset ALL weapons and heat sink values back to where they were, in the very beginning.

[Mcgral18]

Neg


Normalize the XL engines

Touch the lasers down


Bam, suddenly the biggest differences are bridged.

[MechaBattler]

If by to death, you mean they shouldn't have an advantage. Then yeah. That's pretty much what should happen.

[Monkey Lover]

Sounds like a good idea but I have never seen a clan team fight independently. I don't think I will unless you make them take damage if they get to close to other clan mechs ha-ha.


Best idea is still 9or10 v 12 but its not going to work with the pugs. Seeing the pugs are the biggest group we have we need to balance clan mechs.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 16 October 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

Monkey Lover, on 16 October 2015 - 04:16 PM, said:

Sounds like a good idea but I have never seen a clan team fight independently. I don't think I will unless you make them take damage if they get to close to other clan mechs ha-ha.


Best idea is still 9or10 v 12 but its not going to work with the pugs. Seeing the pugs are the biggest group we have we need to balance clan mechs.

10 vs 12 is the best idea and if it's a pug que then just lock them to IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan mechs only, problem solved. Clan vs IS is for CW only and there it's balanced by 2 star's (10 mechs) vs 3 lances (12 mechs) for the IS. Once again problem solved, get rid of ghost heat, tone down clan weapons (Not by 40%!!!!) and actually let clan DHS be true double eff. Hell let the IS doubles be the same over single HS.

Everyone throws out the pug que as the largest reason that they say clans are op, fine make them tech specific and get rid of all the quirks for all mechs and play the CW matches 10 vs 12. Problem solved without all this IS warfare balancing crap idea's and code stuff that we have all been waiting on for several years now.

Edited by Leggin Ho, 16 October 2015 - 04:55 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

T Decker, on 16 October 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

Inner Sphere mech warfare relies on teamwork, and brute force, whatever the cost. Clan warfare is all about one on one fighting. No waste. It's why all Clan mechs center on energy weapons.

So make clan weapons do zero damage if they're hitting a mech another clan mech is engaged with.

b/c no one in a clan mech would dishonor themselves by focusing fire in this video game right?

I mean, am I right?

-.-

[DjPush]

I thought that the Clan dissadvantage was supposed to be fragile OP mechs. I thought their weapons and equipment were supposed to be better, yet get destroyed more easily. That and fewer numbers.

Edited by DjPush, 16 October 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[El Bandito]

T Decker, on 16 October 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

The Clans are supposed to be superior in every way...
...When you run into a solo one in a dark alley.

Inner Sphere mech warfare relies on teamwork, and brute force, whatever the cost. Clan warfare is all about one on one fighting. No waste. It's why all Clan mechs center on energy weapons.

False. In 1v1 situation the IS mech tends to have the advantage due to PPFLD ACs and lower duration lasers.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

clans were a poorly implemented TT construct to reduce play times for the TT game.
PGI opted to balance 1:1 rather than 1:1.35 and now you must suffer.
now get in your glass house, because asymmetrical battles are a lie.

[Gremlich Johns]

PGI turned their hoped IS vs Clan Community game (that they want to turn into an E-Sport) into IS vs IS.

IS vs IS you say? Why?

The Clan mechs are supposed to be superior in many ways and the Clans faced overwhelming numbers in the BT milieu. Such is not the case in this wonderful FTP game that PGI has "given" us.

In order to prevent mass defections to Clan tech in MW:O, the brilliant developers at PGI made the Clans, over time, as powerful as IS tech and kept the numbers in a CW Clan vs IS match even. Because of this game mechanic, the only real difference between IS and Clan tech, outside of individual player ability and skill, is that the Clan tech looks ostensibly different.

I regret that a mediocre game development company has created a mediocre game from a highly valued franchise, where the mechs you buy as packages with real money (and a lot of it) are nerfed by the time they sell them for c-bills.

E-Sport? Keep dreaming. You should have kept the time period 3025 and not chosen the FTP model. A Stand Alone game would have been much better. Remember Mechwarrior 4: Mercs? The game was about $40 and you could get mech packs with extra maps for $10.

[SaltBeef]

Mass defections to Clan Horsehunch!! because the greater percent of the players are c-bill grinding for their mechs instead of buying them there are more IS mechs and IS players than Clan players. Clan mech cost more c-bills and more money in mech packs.

The fact is there are less clan pilots in this game than IS ones.

[Chados]

It would be cool if the game rewarded batchalls and zellbrigen for the Clans and rewarded Clanners fighting like Clanners.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

What you want is a dynamic balance between the two techbases.

For example, the IS energy weapons NEED to be superior inside their optimal range because they give up so much range to their clan equivalents. This can be through lower heat, shorter beam times, higher DPS, etc.

Additionally, Clan XL needs a disadvantage compared to IS XL and STD engines so clan battlemechs actually have a reason to consider a STD engine. Removing speed tweak from clan XLs and reducing the maneuverability bonus of the large clan XL engines on the more powerful clan heavies (timbie) wouldn't be a bad idea.

For clan endo/ferro compared to IS, clan endo/ferro should just be weight savings, while IS Ferro should allow you to mount the same tonnage of armor as you can with normal armor. Furthermore I'd argue that Standard structure should provide a structure buff as well. One might consider giving clan endo a negative quirk to structure but I think that'd be a bit excessive. I would allow clans to choose whether or not to mount endo/ferro.

[Dino Might]

T Decker, on 16 October 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

If you were to implement this, we could actually reset ALL weapons and heat sink values back to where they were, in the very beginning.

No, because half of the top tier players running the currently dominant clan mechs don't care about match rewards. They piss away cbills with consumables because they have an endless supply, and they could take cbill losses in the millions without blinking an eye. The fact that, despite all their skill, they continue to run Timbies, Hellbies, Dires, and Cheetos in large groups confirms that they are out to win and only to win. They don't care about a challenge. They don't care about rewards. They just care about win vs. lose, and they want to dominate as much as possible. That means they will take the now even more OP clan mechs you propose and fight like they always have, with coordination. And then there will be no chance against them.

Sorry, but your idea only works if everyone thinks like you. Many people do not. Seriously, when is the last time you saw a tryhard running a Vindicator?

Edited by Dino Might, 16 October 2015 - 08:52 PM.

[Davers]

Leggin Ho, on 16 October 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

10 vs 12 is the best idea

You have no proof of 10v12 being the best idea. It's not even an idea based on TT- it's just from the fluff fiction. At least TT actually tried to balance them (and it is closer to 24-12 then 12-10). How is balancing 12 v 10 easier than 12 v 12? Are those extra 2 mechs light, medium, heavy, or assault?

While I am sure many IS players would jump at the chance for pure ISvIS queues, I don't think that is the direction we want to take the game.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

How about, instead of convoluted ideas, we simply start with a 15% range nerf to CERM and CLPL. There's also the idea of only letting 1 Gauss rifle charge at a time (similar to what they did in preventing 4 gauss from firing at once on a Dire Wolf.)

Then again not many people like my ideas, seeing as I'd vote for making ALL ACs to be burst fire.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 16 October 2015 - 09:20 PM.

[KuroNyra]

The Atlas Overlord, on 16 October 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

So make clan weapons do zero damage if they're hitting a mech another clan mech is engaged with.

b/c no one in a clan mech would dishonor themselves by focusing fire in this video game right?

I mean, am I right?

-.-

*facepalm* you DO know it's a stupid idea quiaff?
Beside, Clans have stopped using Zellbringer rules sometimes after the start of the invasion. Seing the Inner Spheres scum would not apply for the rules of honorable fight.


To the OP: That was the Idea lot of people had at first. But you can't force Roleplay to people. Not in a FPS. Not in a RTS, not in anykind of game.


Roleplay is a choice. Not something who can be forced.

T Decker, on 16 October 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

The Clans are supposed to be superior in every way...
...When you run into a solo one in a dark alley.

Depends if your a scared little Thunderbolt with only ERPPC and overquick and not in your Urbanmech of doom.

[xe N on]

You cannot introduce asymmetric balance of tech into symmetric game modes.

As long public queue or group queue allows mix tech in teams and is not support into asymmetrical winning conditions, lore implementation of clan tech cannot work.

[Mordin Ashe]

Why are you trying to re-invent the wheel? IS was already balanced towards Clans by giving quirks to IS Mechs (and very minor quirks to underperforming Clan Mechs). We can talk about specific chassis or weapon but that was the way taken and it brought MWO more balance than it ever had. Sure, mistakes were made and there are still some serious offenders but in general this issue is already solved.

[SaltBeef]

If there was a Clan on Clan only mode that simulated a Batchall fight for a Genetic material in a Repository you could have a Zellbrigen mode. Basically the 1st enemy in your sights that no one else saw Target reticle box changes to the color GREEN and his changes GREEN for yours this makes the 2 engaged mechs untargetable to the remaining mechs. The last one standing looks for another target when he targets an untargeted or unengaged mech it turns Green this forces the other player to look for a Green Target box.

Easy Peasy Zellbriggen Can we have our Refusal War Now even though we won Tukkayid! :lol:LOL...