126 replies to this topic

[Pht]

A cockpit with a H.U.D in it!

[Mchawkeye]

Pht, on 07 December 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

A cockpit with a H.U.D in it!

Yeah, it needs a HUD. One that I can change the colour of...but it should be simple, with minimal information to not crowd out the POV and make the cockpit a useful, functional item...

[EgoPrime]

Nav, on 02 December 2011 - 11:07 PM, said:

I think you need a HUD AND the Cockpit. Technology has progressed much further so that it can provide a far more realistic and immersive experience.

For example with Track IR, why would you want to use you number pad to look around, when you can just move your head slightly?

true, we will need both options. hud and cockpit.

[Alex Wolfe]

Monoblos, on 05 December 2011 - 01:18 PM, said:

if possible make a 3D person view with cockpit optional. of course you need the HUD to see your enemys.

Anything but that. 3rd person view gives such an advantage that you are left with using it, or accepting the handicap - if it appears, it's just not an "option" anymore.

Either it should be a default 1st person only game (with a possible server-side 3rd person option), or the vantage point should be around a mech's shoulder or near the ground level, a higher one would allow to peek over hills and such. It pretty much breaks the game.

On topic, cockpit all the way, but with an option (or default) of having the ground static and only the cockpit moving with the footsteps. The pilots may be conditioned to that, but I doubt players would welcome the whole world jerking up and down five times per second at 130 kph.

[Mchawkeye]

Alex Wolfe, on 08 December 2011 - 03:28 AM, said:

On topic, cockpit all the way, but with an option (or default) of having the ground static and only the cockpit moving with the footsteps. The pilots may be conditioned to that, but I doubt players would welcome the whole world jerking up and down five times per second at 130 kph.

I'm not sure I understand that...static ground as opposed to what?

I think it does need to shake and vibrate a bit, if anything to throw your aim off a bit...but it shouldn't be too mad. suspension/dampers aren't a mental idea.

[Alex Wolfe]

Mchawkeye, on 08 December 2011 - 03:57 AM, said:

I'm not sure I understand that...static ground as opposed to what?

I think it does need to shake and vibrate a bit, if anything to throw your aim off a bit...but it shouldn't be too mad. suspension/dampers aren't a mental idea.

Perhaps "static" wasn't the best word indeed... I mean having the viewpoint mostly locked to the ground (the cockpit visibly shake on the screen with every step and the ground moving only slightly), as opposed to viewpoint locked to the cockpit (cockpit virtually unmoving, the ground jerking up and down and to the sides with every step).

First of all, it's way easier on the eyes (faster mechs could really make people seasick), and second, it would emulate the fact that the pilots are conditioned to a mech's movement (thus able to mostly ignore the shaking).

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 08 December 2011 - 04:15 AM.

[Irish79]

you could always use webcams to track head motion and adjust the view inside? most of us would have one these days anyway??

it would only be required though if there was information outside your initial view of the pit...

[Tierloc]

Agasutin, on 03 December 2011 - 12:18 AM, said:

Hi my name is Hunchback. There is nothing more I enjoy than long walks on the beach. Some of my other hobbies include large ballistic weapons and hiding behind Highlanders.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

UncleKulikov, on 03 December 2011 - 10:42 PM, said:

Quoted for the Starsiege reference. Cockpits are incredible for gameplay, and I want them to be functional this time.

Like if there are camera guided missiles, you will need to look at the camera feed within your cockpit to guide them.

uhm no...just...no... Starsiege did not have cockpits. What Starsiege had were a couple of bars across your screen
a la MW2 (in fact the Emancipator herc cockpit lines look eerily similiar to the Commando cockpit lines in MW2:Mercs)

Earthsiege did cockpits right. A little more than 1/2 of your screen was the actual control panels plus HDD
or Head-Down Display which you could switch to (it was where your Tac Map was.)
I will forever love Earthsiege and Earthsiege 2 for making me really feel like I was sitting in a giant robot.
Viltry that screen cap is Earthsige 1


earthsiege 2 huds only increased the pwnage!
One of these days, I will remake these games in all their sim glory

[CaveMan]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 December 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

earthsiege 2 huds only increased the pwnage!
One of these days, I will remake these games in all their sim glory

Just please, FFS, do it without the cheesy FMV's of General Whatsisname barking mission orders at the player. So bad...

[Felicitatem Parco]

I like having a cockpit so I feel like my character in-game is a Mechwarrior instead of just a Mech, but I just really thought the cockpit window glass would have imbedded HUDs...

It should have imbedded HUDs, but you don't see that in the concept-cockpit released so far... that makes me sad.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 December 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

CaveMan, on 09 December 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

Just please, FFS, do it without the cheesy FMV's of General Whatsisname barking mission orders at the player. So bad...

oh yeah, each sector would have it's own commander character, and aides de camp etc
Geirling would be there, but in a Patton role and character style

[Alex Wolfe]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 December 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

Earthsiege did cockpits right. A little more than 1/2 of your screen was the actual control panels plus HDD
or Head-Down Display which you could switch to (it was where your Tac Map was.)
I will forever love Earthsiege and Earthsiege 2 for making me really feel like I was sitting in a giant robot.
Viltry that screen cap is Earthsige 1

Am I the only one that this cockpit makes think that the protagonist is... rather short? Like, "R2D2-short"? I mean... to have a view like that, the radar would have to be at around his chin level, no?

If this was Mechwarrior, I'd have no choice but think he removed his chair to cram in one more heatsink, and now is squatting on the cockpit's floor. Now that's dedication! Must be a Clanner.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 09 December 2011 - 03:03 PM.

[Ghoullees]

I'm of two minds with this. Traditionally, the cockpit has always been included. This does ad an element to the tactics....some cockpits have better views, as do some torsoes have better traverse angles, etc. It ads a passive level to the tactics.

On the other hand, the technology is advanced enough, that it is likely that some pilot cockpits could have been housed quite easily into the 'belly of the beast' as it were, totally encased in steel and armour, with only cameras mounted externally to give TV views for the pilot.

Despite the logic of the latter paragraph, the universe has always been written and played with a traditional cockpit view.

In the end, I'm for a cockpit view. I would hope that each cockpit is designed thoughtfully, and with ACTUAL cockpit data feedback ( heatsink lighting, missile ammo and coolant gauges as a few examples), not just a 'cockpit graphic' no better than a wallpaper.

Here's hoping.

[Holmes]

Pro-cockpit.

This is like a sci-fi simulator to me, not just a game.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Alex Wolfe, on 09 December 2011 - 03:02 PM, said:

Am I the only one that this cockpit makes think that the protagonist is... rather short? Like, "R2D2-short"? I mean... to have a view like that, the radar would have to be at around his chin level, no?

If this was Mechwarrior, I'd have no choice but think he removed his chair to cram in one more heatsink, and now is squatting on the cockpit's floor. Now that's dedication! Must be a Clanner.

uhm no?

that's just the F16 man

In-game reason: herc (Earthsiege mecha) perform like helicopter gunships on legs...lots of dials
out-of-game: adds to the simulator feel that you're in the cockpit of a mech
game-engine: resolution in 1995 was capped at 640X480 for a while, and so the scaling of
said panels may be larger than they should be compared to todays 1900x1600 or w/e we're at

oh yes and now consider this; you could click on almost all of those panel elements
simulating that you're pilot was pushing buttons with his/her fingers, hows that for sim!?

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 09 December 2011 - 09:53 PM.

[Alex Wolfe]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 December 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

uhm no?

that's just the F16 man

That's... not really a fair comparison I guess, since a modern aircraft is flying nearly entirely "by the computer" and combat is done at ranges where you often don't see the target... the most important thing is what those LEDs are showing you, the outside view is a bonus.

In Mechwarrior and mech combat, the most important thing is what's going on outside, and what channel your cockpit TV is tuned to is secondary to what torso position the Hunchback turning the corner is in. I really wouldn't like half the screen taken by radar and heat indicator, with the important stuff showing up in the tiny window mode...

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 December 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

In-game reason: herc (Earthsiege mecha) perform like helicopter gunships on legs...lots of dials
out-of-game: adds to the simulator feel that you're in the cockpit of a mech
game-engine: resolution in 1995 was capped at 640X480 for a while, and so the scaling of
said panels may be larger than they should be compared to todays 1900x1600 or w/e we're at

I'll rather take this explanation then, thanks!

Aaron DeChavilier, on 09 December 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

oh yes and now consider this; you could click on almost all of those panel elements
simulating that you're pilot was pushing buttons with his/her fingers, hows that for sim!?

Umm... neat, but... what is there to click in Mechwarrior? ...now if they actually give us some clickables as target marking or electronic warfare, or objectives setting... that could be interesting.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 10 December 2011 - 01:51 AM.

[Majer]

The key thing in cocpit is that you get HUD in front, Helmet Mounted Display for targetting information, AND you are able to look around without twisting your torso, or whole mech, and that gives you some kind of awareness (unless cockpit design for that mech isn't helping you to look around.

Let's take a look at this:



We end up with having a cool looking cocpit, but it looks like it doesn't let you to look around within it. I cannot see how can I glance trough side windows without leaning forward, and I bet leaning forward is not considered.
With Headtracking device (TrackIR, FreeTrack etc.) you could, but you should also be able to do that with mouse. Would be good if you could just twist torso with mouse, and switch to "freelook" mode when ie. alt key is pressed.

I would like the way it's done with racing sims. All do support TrackIR/Freetrack (which I personally love), but still it's not vital to have one, and you can look around with dpad keys on your steering wheel.

Take a look at this common cockpit view:


And add a HUD display on windscreen, like in new BMW series, or any fighter jet:


And finally a HMD, for minor data, like selected target, or waypoint, or torso aligment, whatever:

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Quote

Hell, look up Mechwarrior; the clans. it was the project that eventually became Mechwarrior 2. but the early versions HAD fully immersive cockpits, which honestly looked far better than the HUD setup in the finished game ever did.

Hm... there's something wrong with that picture, though.
Ah yeah, the MGs in place of the Flamer, making that configuration 2 ton overweight.

[Grithis]

There have been plenty of games with just a HUD. Armored Core and the Gundam games stick out in my mind. My kid loves those, but imho, there's just something missing when you don't have the cockpit view. It loses a lot of emersiveness and just feels like another video game. It feels less important, somehow.