14 replies to this topic

[That Guy]

I applaud that PGI is at least trying to balance single heat sinks. but a .1 increase (or .01) is not going to do it. I, and many others, have only been screaming about this since closed beta when DHS were first implemented.

the reason double heat sinks are so OP has nothing to do with the HS its self being better, but the fact that engine comes not only with built in DHS, but full power 2.0 dissipation HS.

if doubles and singles are to have a place in the game, the heat efficiency of the engine heatsinks MUST be the same. otherwise we get the scenario we have now, upgrade to DHS, get better heat efficiency, and get back up to 10 tons worth of weight.

i would like to see mechs that have invested the tonnage and crit space to DHS get a higher reward than simply having a 250+ engine with all 2.0 DHS.


to anyone who thinks "SHS are suppose to be bad!", no, just no. that is not how a multiplayer arena shooter works. you do not have pointless equipment. everything should have a place somewhere. DHS were crazy op in TT, and they are crazy OP here. plus the TT game was balanced around "wargaming rules", not shooter rules. you could make an uber super custom 3000 BV monstrosity, but your opponent could just throw a battalion worth of urbies at it until it died.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Well SHS did have legit use in the TT. Cheaper, easier to fix, more available was one, if you say, are doing an Against the Bot Megamek campaign. SHS arent too terrible, especially since you can open yer mechs up in the mech lab and add some more while taking off useless weapons like SRM2s and MGs that are just going to blow you up for little battlefield force projection, and adding on more heat sinks. Most of those 3025-3050 is mechs are just bad. 30 heat worth of weapons, 15 HS...

MGs are for vehicles that dont go Chernobyl when their ammo is hit.

The other is that given a high tonnage mech, you can get better HS dissipation from SHS.

24 will fit in the RT/LT, 7 more from HLCT, and 3 in each arm, for a whopping 47 heat dissipation, with enough crits left over for 4 isER PPCs, or even get it up to 50 with removing actuators. The highest possible next to Clamtech, which has higher heat generally.

Without removing actuators you can only put on 12 dubs, for 44 heat dissipation.

The only way to heat neutral 4x is ERLL was SHS for instance.

Oh and Heat Sinks in your legs, in water, doubled their ability.

Only way to get that as IS, is SHS.

Extra heat dissipation for standing in water used to be a thing in MWO too iirc.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 14 October 2015 - 08:49 PM.

[That Guy]

those are all things i would like to see be viable for SHS, but due to the 2.0 DHS in the engine its not worth it to use SHS

[M1Combat]

What if they just made all engine sinks double and you can choose which ones to add?

[LennStar]

Engine cooling should not change based on HS (or engine size). Always 20 points cooling for every engine, even when on single HS on the smallest one. They are like heat pipes on a processor after all
Less then that and lights are just unplayable on hot maps.

After that we have different possibilites.

You can go for
1. DHS cool 2 points but have the same heat capacity as SHS, the loss is crit space.

or

2. DHS have same cooling speed as SHS but have 3 (or 5) points heat capacity (more cooling liquid) - one per crit - but still only 1 ton.


or a little mixing of that, whatever is best for balance. Needs to be tested. Maybe DHS 1.2 cooling and 2 points store.

[EvilCow]

The problem is that DHSs get a huge bonus because the 10 engine internal HSs.

I would like to try engine-HSs fixed at 1.5 regardless the external type. External HSs would then be adjusted up to compensate, for example 2.0 for IS DHSs and 1.8 for clan DHSs.

This way DHSs would give an advantage only for external ones and not be a free lunch, most stock mechs would have a slight boost too.

Edited by EvilCow, 15 October 2015 - 12:46 PM.

[627]

.1 more is actually a thing. Don't forget "double" heatsinks are only 1.4 so now the difference is even smaller (not counting the 10 engine heatsinks).

We tried some hilarious stalker builds with a STD100 and whatever you want but single heatsinks. I went with 2xLRM15 and 2xLL (and a flamer). Besides being slow as fox with 20kph that was quite managable heatwise.

Sure, DHS are still better no matter what but at least you can take part in fighting with SHS now.

next step should be to turn DHS down to 1.3 imho. Games feel so much better if there's more heat management and bigger TTK.

[Khobai]

Quote

Extra heat dissipation for standing in water used to be a thing in MWO too iirc.

it still is a thing but only clan mechs can really benefit from it since IS cant fit heatsinks in their feet

[VaudeVillain]

I play old tech only and the SHS increase to 1.1 offset the loss of the Awesome's heat reduction quirk on the PPCs. So, in reality, it benefits more 'Mechs that don't currently have heat reduction quirks that still use SHS.


I think one helpful thing would be to give any engine running SHS a full 10 SHS. It's hard to play light 'Mechs with only SHS and then have to put the extra tonnage to get to 10.

Edited by GaiDaigoji, 15 October 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[Fiona Marshe]

The extra SHS required for sub-250 engines is already built into the engine mass; so you aren't being penalised.

This is the reason that the Urbanmech Std-60 has a negative engine weight.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Fiona Marshe, on 15 October 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

The extra SHS required for sub-250 engines is already built into the engine mass; so you aren't being penalised.

This is the reason that the Urbanmech Std-60 has a negative engine weight.

You are being penalized if you run DHS (which of course you are) since those externals are only 1.4s

[Inti Raymi]

Khobai, on 15 October 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:

it still is a thing but only clan mechs can really benefit from it since IS cant fit heatsinks in their feet

Can't fit DHS in their feet. SHS can be - 4 of them in most cases.

[SirNotlag]

Inti Raymi, on 16 October 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Can't fit DHS in their feet. SHS can be - 4 of them in most cases.

and with the buff that means each single in the feet when standing in water has a dissipation of 2.2. I tried it out on viridian bog and it is glorious! On that map with 4 singles in your feet it feels like your on even footing with the DHS guys. I'd have to test it out some more but that maps the best for it cause its all water.

[process]

M1Combat, on 15 October 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

What if they just made all engine sinks double and you can choose which ones to add?

This. If all mechs have 10 double heatsinks in the engine, then single vs. double heatsinks simply becomes another tonnage vs. crit space variable like endo and ferro. Not only does this make stock builds actually viable, but it also improves mech customization. And now that the gap between singles and doubles is a lot closer, we can actually get full 2.0 double heatsinks.

Light mechs with limited tonnage will be better off with double heatsinks, while heavy and assault mechs, that generally are short on crits but have ample tonnage, will be able to load up on single heatsinks.


For instance:

Mech A with 8 external double heatsinks -- 8 tons, 24 slots = 36 single heatsinks
Mech B with 16 external single heatsinks -- 16 tons, 16 slots = 36 single heatsinks

Same cooling efficiency.

Edited by process, 16 October 2015 - 11:14 AM.

[Vetal]

Maybe dhs shoul work like slow taking heat from weapon and slow decreasing of heat, but shs should take heat faster a lot, and a lot faster release it?