42 replies to this topic

[Project_Mercy]

The only barrier to entry I think has to be how efficencies work. They need to come up with a system that doesn't hinge around trying to force people to buy and play mechs they really have no interesting in. When you first start it's like "I bought a mech, I'm totally going to master this... oh wait, now I have to buy THREE of these things??". I'd like to see it where you could basically buy a chassis and just "level" it into whatever variant you want. If you want to switch variants than either buy a new chassis or reset the one you have and re-level it. It still provides the level grinding, but doesn't make you waste a ton of cash on useless variants. No, it's not very battletech'ie, but then again neither is any one mechwarrior having 300 mechs in their stable. I think it would be cool if you could basically "upgrade" a chassis to another one, where you had to return that chassis to stock and you could use it's purchase price as a down payment on the other mech (and if the other mech is cheaper you just lose the difference)

The current system is good for a cash sink and selling mech packs, but it's not astoundingly good for the game as a whole. Now we have like 280 mech variants.The game is starting to turn into Eve where it's just overwhelming with choices that, in the end, aren't actually all that different.

[Sug]

Johnny Z, on 18 October 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

Are new players supposed to have mechs to fall back on like vets?

New players are supposed to buy premium time.

[fat4eyes]

D1SC0 LEM0NADE, on 18 October 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

My second match, in a trial Thunderbolt Champ, I get 3 kills, 9 assists, 6 component destroyed, a few scouting, 495 damage, and other misc. merits. What did I earn with all this hard work? 112,000 Cbill and 1500 xp.

If you stomped your enemy, you earn a lot less cbills because you don't get savior kills. See here on how to milk the rewards system.

[topgun505]

That's the nail in the coffin.

Yes a FTP game needs to be a grind. We understand that. And MWO is. A lot of people would argue that it may be on the high end of the grind fest. But you have to factor in that you not only have to grind away to get the mech ... then you have to grind to OUTFIT the mech. 1.5 mil just for double heat sinks for most IS mechs. Then Endo. And potentially ferro. And possibly Artemis. Then all the weapons. For clan mechs it's the cost of the omnipod and the weapons. Either way it is usually at least 2-3 million extra just to outfit it.

But the REAL slap in the face for the new player is finding out that they not only have to do this cbill grind. But they have to do an XP grind to unlock their efficiencies (as if being new vs players who have been doing this for years isn't handicap enough). And THEN have have to do this all over again for TWO MORE mechs (both the cbill grind to afford them, and the XP grind to unlock the skills).

I easily envision most new players enjoying this game while the cadet bonuses are in place ... and shortly after they expire and they realize their cbill bank is barely increasing and they do some quick estimations to figure out how long it will take to get the rest of what they need they will drop the game.

D1SC0 LEM0NADE, on 18 October 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

I think with all the cadet bonuses, the tutorial cash, and my earnings in the mean time, I'll be able to pick up a MadDog without to much trouble. The problem is going to be buying the other two! Lolz. . .its not really funny. It should only take something like 196 games to do it. . .if I can continue to perform like the above listed match. :/

[Xetelian]

If I hadn't spent money on this game I'd own very few robbits.

[Burktross]

Project_Mercy, on 18 October 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

The only barrier to entry I think has to be how efficencies work. They need to come up with a system that doesn't hinge around trying to force people to buy and play mechs they really have no interesting in. When you first start it's like "I bought a mech, I'm totally going to master this... oh wait, now I have to buy THREE of these things??". I'd like to see it where you could basically buy a chassis and just "level" it into whatever variant you want. If you want to switch variants than either buy a new chassis or reset the one you have and re-level it. It still provides the level grinding, but doesn't make you waste a ton of cash on useless variants. No, it's not very battletech'ie, but then again neither is any one mechwarrior having 300 mechs in their stable. I think it would be cool if you could basically "upgrade" a chassis to another one, where you had to return that chassis to stock and you could use it's purchase price as a down payment on the other mech (and if the other mech is cheaper you just lose the difference)

The current system is good for a cash sink and selling mech packs, but it's not astoundingly good for the game as a whole. Now we have like 280 mech variants.The game is starting to turn into Eve where it's just overwhelming with choices that, in the end, aren't actually all that different.

Even when you don't intend on mastering mechs, its still a awful grind.

[Mothykins]

I did the math sometime last year.

It WAS something like a year of playing every day for 8-ish hours to purchase every 'mech in the game at that point.

Earnings seem to be a bit down, and there are more 'mechs. I don't even really want most of them, but...

It's a slog for what's there, especially with the money sink that's Modules.



Let's do some simple math based on me.

I want The King Crab, and to master it. 10,000,000 Cbills each, so 30,000,000.

Let's say I'm making around 100,000 a match with Hero Mechs

100 matches per mech.

A match is around 7-8 minutes.

2,100 minutes

35 hours.



35 hours for three stock robots.


Yes, I understand these are assaults. But still; 35 hours is a long time to spend to unlock 3 robots out of how many?

[El Bandito]

D1SC0 LEM0NADE, on 18 October 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

I think with all the cadet bonuses, the tutorial cash, and my earnings in the mean time, I'll be able to pick up a MadDog without to much trouble. The problem is going to be buying the other two! Lolz. . .its not really funny. It should only take something like 196 games to do it. . .if I can continue to perform like the above listed match. :/

I agree that the "Buy three to elite the one you want" model is stupid as hell. PGI should really rethink it, as the incoming Steam horde has much less love and patience for this niche game, than most of us here.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 October 2015 - 07:30 PM.

[Surn]

Or... As a player base ... We could start letting the last player on thE losinG team fight 1v1s until he dies. Many more people would make more damage and kills and money.

[topgun505]

Look at it from a likely point of view. A new player joins at the request of a friend who pulls him in to his unit. They tell him if he eventually wants to be a member of a comp team that he will need at least 1 mech from two different weight classes fully mastered and preferably 1 from each of the 4 weight classes (not an unusual request). So calculate what that means:

Doing basics and elites on all 3 mechs of a chassis and then mastering at least one of those and doing that 3 more times after that.

That's a lot of cbills needed and a lot of xp. Would be interesting to see what that would work out to be.

Figure out the xp and cbills needed for:

a FSR (5 MPL)
a SCR (laser vomit)
a TBR (laser vomit)
a DW (dakka)

AND also the GXP needed for a full set of modules for each.

Yeah. Even WITH premium time that would be a grind.

Cavale, on 18 October 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

I did the math sometime last year.

It WAS something like a year of playing every day for 8-ish hours to purchase every 'mech in the game at that point.

Earnings seem to be a bit down, and there are more 'mechs. I don't even really want most of them, but...

It's a slog for what's there, especially with the money sink that's Modules.



Let's do some simple math based on me.

I want The King Crab, and to master it. 10,000,000 Cbills each, so 30,000,000.

Let's say I'm making around 100,000 a match with Hero Mechs

100 matches per mech.

A match is around 7-8 minutes.

2,100 minutes

35 hours.



35 hours for three stock robots.


Yes, I understand these are assaults. But still; 35 hours is a long time to spend to unlock 3 robots out of how many?

Edited by topgun505, 18 October 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[D1SC0 LEM0NADE]

It took 14 matches for me to buy the Mad Dog Prime, and completely basic it. I have 270k left.

[Kushko]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

I agree that the "Buy three to elite the one you want" model is stupid as hell. PGI should really rethink it, as the incoming Steam horde has much less love and patience for this niche game, than most of us here.

I couldnt agree more. The economy would be just right if the 3 for 1 were changed. They should let you master any single mech you own without needing 2 more of most likely identical mechs that would cost you ~20mil and give you nothing new. Instead owning and mastering 3 variants should give you cosmetic bonuses like a master skin or some minimal special geometry. Actual ingame advantages like speed and turn rates should not be locked behind the idiocy that is the "buy 3 to play 1".

But at the end of the day there is only so much we can do to try to help the game be better (by so much i mean literary nothing) and PGI will continue to do their own thing and listen to that one lead designer we all suspect is behind pretty much every shockingly bad decision (excluding marketing) in MWO.

Edited by Kushko, 18 October 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[Aresye]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

PGI should really rethink it, as the incoming Steam horde has much less love and patience for this niche game, than most of us here.

We have love and patience?

[El Bandito]

Aresye Kerensky, on 18 October 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

We have love and patience?

You are still here, aren't you?

[Tsar Bomba]

Belphegore, on 18 October 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

Yeah.. i tried making a new account not long ago as Inner sphere only, and boy do i feel bad for the newbies that don't have a stable of mechs to fall back on like us vets.

And they feel sorry for us for wasting money on this game.

(Hows that for 'love and patience'?)

[the punk who stole your thunder]

I have around 70 mech - but mostly just one engine of every rating.

I buy a mech and strip it and sell most of the equipment.

What do i need 10 AC20, 15 UAC5 oder 10 STD300 for?

I can pilot just one mech at a time. And for the case i "enjoy" a quick death i have another fully equipped mech at hand to shorten the idle time.

And CW .... i prefer to spend my time in a PUG than in a CW-waiting-queue to get a ghost drop ...

[3xnihilo]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

I agree that the "Buy three to elite the one you want" model is stupid as hell. PGI should really rethink it, as the incoming Steam horde has much less love and patience for this niche game, than most of us here.

Yes, the 3 for 1 xp grind really gives me pause before buying a new chassis, since it won't work right until it is mastered and to master it I need 2 others, so which other two will I get? Am I reasonably sure I will enjoy the chassis enough to invest all of that time into it? It seems like the whole business model is based on the assumption that the players are already pre-invested in the game when they start so they will be willing to spend a lot of time or some money for things like mechs and modules. I know I buy most of my mechs with real cash now, and I still can't save enough for engines and modules, but I am already here and have an interest in the game continuing because: "Battletech" how much interest I would have if I was not at BT fan? I am not so sure.

[Windsaw]

If you consider playing work, you should stop playing.

[NextGame]

D1SC0 LEM0NADE, on 18 October 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

Just for giggles I opened another account. Right out of the tutorial I was nearly maxed 4th tier. After my first match in a trial Mad Dog I got bumped 1/4 of the way through 3rd tier. My second match, in a trial Thunderbolt Champ, I get 3 kills, 9 assists, 6 component destroyed, a few scouting, 495 damage, and other misc. merits. What did I earn with all this hard work? 112,000 Cbill and 1500 xp. . .just sad. It's been a while since I haven't had premium time and Prime variants to net me extra cash. Now that I'm a better pilot, starting new without these things just shows how bad the grind is. Inexperienced players must be getting hosed badly in comparison.

I think the real question is, why are people getting 25% tier 3 from an account with only 1 game in tier 4

[JaxRiot]

After reading this last night, I made an alt account too out of curiosity.

After the Tutorial I had just over 4mill c-bills. I figure after all of the cadet bonuses I would have had around 15mill or so c-bills. Which would be enough to deck out one good mech or possibly two.

But the thing is, that most new players probably wont know to do that. To save up and build one good mech. Chances are they will try to buy a couple of stock mechs not really knowing how to build them or which builds to use.

Until this thread I hadnt really thought about it but I fear that new players will use up their cadet bonus money on inferior mechs and/or builds, and by the time they figure it out they will be stuck in the middle of Tier 3 where they can be put up against all Tiers and having a tough time making the c-bills to replace or correct their purchasing mistakes.