35 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Lock the items/weapons on the omnipods, or at least most of them, still let people mix and match all willy nilly.

Then those crazy artists at PGI could make another set or two for each mech that has hard points in-line with the rest of the game or different sets of locked ones with a wider range of weapons. Probably actually get some of the more balance minded players to kick in different loadouts for new pods that gave a wider array of options but kept things in check.

It just seems to me that if you were churning these out off a factory line, they wouldn't really get all those options to really dive in and tweak out their individual pods, and the swapping of them is what sets them apart from their counterparts already.

Pretty sure the rage-aholics will burn this notion right out of the gate, but hopefully they can consider about how it might affect the balance of IS v Clans without having to do ridiculous nerfs/buffs if the more powerful clan mechs had at least somewhat more limited options and semi forced loadouts.

[Widowmaker1981]

Have OP gear, but as balance your mech is built by a 10 year old with ADHD? No thanks.

For some of us, tweaking and fine tuning builds is half of the fun. Also, what about fully customisable IIC mechs? whats gonna happen with them if Clan gear is OP? Hmmmm?

[Curccu]

https://youtu.be/pmePLg3hdCw

Bah, cannot remember how to do embed youtube videos.

Edited by Curccu, 20 October 2015 - 03:11 AM.

[sycocys]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 October 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

Have OP gear, but as balance your mech is built by a 10 year old with ADHD? No thanks.

For some of us, tweaking and fine tuning builds is half of the fun. Also, what about fully customisable IIC mechs? whats gonna happen with them if Clan gear is OP? Hmmmm?

Yep, can't argue about customizing and that's why I offered the suggestions for the team to make the additional hard point balanced pods or pods that were locked but more balanced with player assistance.
The sheer number of weapons that are replaceable is what really over powers with the current sets for most mechs - some aren't so out there in that regard.

The IIC mechs won't have interchangeable pods as far as I'm aware, so while they will be able to min/max to a certain degree with the powered up clan weapons - they will each still have much more limited options.

Either way, its just another route to consider. Maybe it would hurt too many players last feeling.

[Hal Greaves]

Yeah, no. This is literally a dumb idea, no offense.

The stock loadouts for clan mechs are attrocious, and no amount of mix and match would ever fix the fact that I'd be stuck with two useless machine guns somewhere or LRMs elseware.

[FupDup]

Mist Lynx Prime hardpoints: 2 ballistic + 2 missile 25 ton mech...

Please no.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

There are a few different ways to balance Clan tech with IS stuff. The first is to have asymetric team comps, say, 10v12. The second is to nerf/rework Clan tech so that it either is functionally the same as IS stuff or has drawbacks to balance the significant advantages inherent to TT Clan stats (basically what PGI has been trying to do). The third is to try to price Clan players out of the battlefield, either through R&R or drop requirements (say, a BattleValue system or team drop budget or something; PGI does a very limited version of this when they have unbalanced Clan/IS drop deck weight limits).

Locking omnipods to their default loadouts would somewhat reduce the optimization potential of omnimech builds, but would significantly decrease the fun of building your Clan ride. In my opinion the trade-offs would not match the benefits. Plus, it'd do nothing for the upcoming IIC mechs, several of which look to be dominant choices in their weight class.

Personally I'm a fan of the asymmetric option, but that's not gonna happen, nor would it help the Instant Action queues and their mixed-tech teams. Repair and Rearm is not tenable, and BattleValue or variable weight limits or whatever will likely only work in CW, leaving the Instant Action queues problematic.

Thus we're left with the pros/cons balance option, which is what PGI has been trying. This necessarily requires a lot of trial and error, with plenty of iteration over time. The most constructive things we can do are to try PTS builds, offer up theory-crafted suggestions, and otherwise play the game to give PGI more data to work with.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well, it is crazy I'll give you that.

No, I'll pass.

[Bishop Steiner]

sycocys, on 20 October 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

Lock the items/weapons on the omnipods, or at least most of them, still let people mix and match all willy nilly.

Then those crazy artists at PGI could make another set or two for each mech that has hard points in-line with the rest of the game or different sets of locked ones with a wider range of weapons. Probably actually get some of the more balance minded players to kick in different loadouts for new pods that gave a wider array of options but kept things in check.

It just seems to me that if you were churning these out off a factory line, they wouldn't really get all those options to really dive in and tweak out their individual pods, and the swapping of them is what sets them apart from their counterparts already.

Pretty sure the rage-aholics will burn this notion right out of the gate, but hopefully they can consider about how it might affect the balance of IS v Clans without having to do ridiculous nerfs/buffs if the more powerful clan mechs had at least somewhat more limited options and semi forced loadouts.

switch capability is kind of the point of the "Omni" Concept.

Otherwise, they are just "Battlemechs".

[Maxx Blue]

The thing you have to remember is that, in Battletech, most of the OP builds that have showed up in this game actually exists on a stock mech somewhere. Well, maybe not the direstar, but that is more silly than OP. So, this system only works as long as PGI doesn't ever add the stock mechs with naturally OP builds to the game. Stock is not the cure for balance because there are some fairly crazy mechs out there. Plus they would more than likely just end up really frustrating given the different heat system i this game compared to table top.

Also, customization has been a pretty integral part of this game for years now and folks generally seem to enjoy the flexibility. I don't think you would get much buy-in from players or the devs to take that away now.

[CDLord HHGD]

Maybe be able to switch out weapons and equipment if you have all matching omnipods, but if you switch out a pod, you can't modify it?

For instance, if you are running the Prime variant, any Prime pods will have the customizability we have now. If you switch a pod, that pod is locked to the stock loadout?

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 October 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

switch capability is kind of the point of the "Omni" Concept.

Otherwise, they are just "Battlemechs".

Yes but the original point of the Omnimech designs was the ability to return a mech to battle FASTER after customization than a Standard Battlemech.

Since we live in a MAGICAL WORLD OF INSTANT MECH REDESIGN, a major strategic advantage disappears. Not that there is anything remotely STRATEGIC about this game thus far.

[BARBAR0SSA]

If they had put any sort of logistics and thought in to CW, a idea like this may actually be worth exploring.

But don't worry, there's more mechs coming!

Edited by shad0w4life, 20 October 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lugh, on 20 October 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Yes but the original point of the Omnimech designs was the ability to return a mech to battle FASTER after customization than a Standard Battlemech.

Since we live in a MAGICAL WORLD OF INSTANT MECH REDESIGN, a major strategic advantage disappears. Not that there is anything remotely STRATEGIC about this game thus far.

being able to mix and match hardpoints for loadouts is still pretty advantageous.

[chewie]

See, I hinted at that in my post recently, got promptly burned down for suggesting big changes to the mechlab.

People probably read the *remove mechlab* that I also mentioned and the rage hit them.

I expect they completely missed my comment about having only the ability to change omni pods, not whats in them.

At least locking the weapons within the Omni pod would mean there'd be less clan meta builds and such which is part of the overall need for a rebalance.

[KuroNyra]

What should have been done was making all battlmech stock with the option to change weapons but for a VERY HIGHT PRICE.
Only Prince and Royalties could afford to make good quality modification. Rest is technical stuff pretty hard to do.

It should be possible, but hard to do.


On the other hand, Omnimech should have the omnipod with the weapons fixed on them and for an even biggest price the possibilite to change stuff.

For hight price I'm talking something like 1M to change a medium for a large. Yes, it can create problem and it is what was limiting the battlemechs.
Same goes for engine and endo-steel, myomer, etc...

[Bishop Steiner]

KuroNyra, on 20 October 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

What should have been done was making all battlmech stock with the option to change weapons but for a VERY HIGHT PRICE.
Only Prince and Royalties could afford to make good quality modification. Rest is technical stuff pretty hard to do.

It should be possible, but hard to do.


On the other hand, Omnimech should have the omnipod with the weapons fixed on them and for an even biggest price the possibilite to change stuff.

For hight price I'm talking something like 1M to change a medium for a large. Yes, it can create problem and it is what was limiting the battlemechs.
Same goes for engine and endo-steel, myomer, etc...

then you start the "class" whining though...new players are instagibbed against long time players with lots of money.

Hence, it's still using economy for balance, which gets all sorts of panties wadded.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 October 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

Also, what about fully customisable IIC mechs? whats gonna happen with them if Clan gear is OP? Hmmmm?

A question you have to ask yourself, is how is PGI going to nerf the hell out of balance IIC's since they get both Clan weaponry AND non-locked equipment?

They keep painting themselves into corners.

[Mordin Ashe]

Guys, why are you trying to reinvent the wheel again? Balance has been achieved by quirks to IS Mechs. No need to jump back in time, this stuff is already dealt with.

[sycocys]

cdlord, on 20 October 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Maybe be able to switch out weapons and equipment if you have all matching omnipods, but if you switch out a pod, you can't modify it?

For instance, if you are running the Prime variant, any Prime pods will have the customizability we have now. If you switch a pod, that pod is locked to the stock loadout?

See I knew at least one person out there was capable of thinking outside the omnibox.

Work it out and toss it up and test. See how it works out in terms of balancing out mechs. It's not any better/worse than dynamic range tied to your sensors.