84 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

So, there is this group of players that are sounding off on the forums about how PSR patch made their matches turn into doom, because they feel they are placed too high and the competition outmatches them badly.

So, lets consider this is a possibility, some players used... well non meta loadouts we will say, like LRM boats etc that do lots of dmg, but arent considered top tier stuff. And this sort of pseudo performance has them placed into say, tier 2(or maybe 3 even) and they should be in tier 4.

Let's just say that's the issue, and this is happening to some players for discussion sake.


What IF.....

PGI set up a support system, where players that feel they are getting endlessly ganked non stop could send a support ticket to have their PSR reset to tier 4?

THEN

PGI uses it's support staff to review these accounts and see if a reset is warranted. I mean, some one needs to look so trolls don;t reset into cadet tier to go seal clubbing.

Would this be acceptable? Would you use it? Is this an unacceptable workload to put on PGI support staff?

I mean when you see people saying they have 1 win and 30 loss and they haven't changed playstyle, it makes you wonder if something is amiss. IF players could reset PSR, it would be the same as a new player, where the PSR tiers would be pretty volatile in changes initially until match count caught up and stabilized. At least, that's the theory I have.

So, what do YOU think?

[BigBucket]

What do you do about that said player still continuing their previous behavior(s) and end up back in a tier they do not feel comfortable being in again?

[Death Proof]

Honestly, I think with the PSR/Tiers should have come a stat reset.

If they are going to redo a major element of the game, everyone needs to start fresh. The old stats no longer hold any meaning with the new MM.

I know a lot of people would cry, but it's actually pretty sound logic if you ask me.

[sycocys]

I'd like to reset to where I was before the last event and the crazy string of losses I accrued because of disco/suicide players - if that's not possible my opinion is that other players should suffer there way down if they don't like where they are at.

Death Proof, on 24 September 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Honestly, I think with the PSR/Tiers should have come a stat reset.

If they are going to redo a major element of the game, everyone needs to start fresh. The old stats no longer hold any meaning with the new MM.

I know a lot of people would cry, but it's actually pretty sound logic if you ask me.

I actually wouldn't have minded that either, because it would have at least given everyone an opportunity to get placed appropriately.

[John1352]

I think that said players may have been used to carrying the team when we had ELO. Maybe they averaged 2 k/d. Now that they are playing with others who also used to average 2 k/d, they're now getting 1 k/d, and it feels like it is much harder.

[El Bandito]

I accept the extra difficulty with open arms. Matches are a lot closer than before even though I lose more now. And I get bit more competent teammates.

[Zordicron]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

I accept the extra difficulty with open arms. Matches are a lot closer than before even though I lose more now. And I get bit more competent teammates.

I am with you, 100%. My stats have actually gone UP, because having "normal" team mates and not nose picking #yolo team mates fits with my playstyle A LOT better. i have always been a "kill assist" guy, and not a "kill steal look at my K/D ratio" guy.

I just posed this for the voices that appear to be having a really bad time of it, based on what they are reporting onthe forums in various threads.

[Zordicron]

BigBucket, on 24 September 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

What do you do about that said player still continuing their previous behavior(s) and end up back in a tier they do not feel comfortable being in again?

I think, this would not happen.

Let's take a LRM boat as an example.

In the low tiers, an experianced lurmer can really reak havok on the cadets. As his PSR starts to move up, he will run into players where LRM are not nearly as effective. This would:
Remove the "really high" match scores almost entirely. No more moving up on a loss for sure, no more big leaps up on a win.
Puts his ranking, now that he has a fairly average score going, pretty solidly in the hands of win and loss.

Per Paul's description, w/l would gradually, gradually work said player up, but it would be that "plateu" he talked about, where the match scores are solidly average, and win and loss essentially cancel each other.


Thats all theory, we don;t know the formulas, but thats how I read his post.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think the solution is much easier than people think...

If you got into a high tier artificially and are getting beaten to oblivion, then just continue getting pummeled until your PSR goes down...

[Zordicron]

Prosperity Park, on 25 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think the solution is much easier than people think...

If you got into a high tier artificially and are getting beaten to oblivion, then just continue getting pummeled until your PSR goes down...

part of it though, at least from what I see on mine- when you have played A LOT of matches, a single win or loss makes that little "bar" move like a micron.

So, if people have played, A LOT, with some missile boats where the old ELO would randomly put them into matches against uber tryhards mixed with scrub-cadets, and they could lay waste to the cadets- then the new system looks back through their match history, sees how they laid waste and accrued hella assists and kills(steals) etc........

Suddenly they are in like tier 2 and should be 4, and the direct fire skilled players are utterly wrecking their LRM Battlemaster.

I mean, i can;t say how widespread this is, or even if it ACTUALLY exists, it could be player perception by a lot, it could be players that did lots of spray and pray and had big dmg numbers consistantly, but had a bad W/L, especially against vet players.

It appears to be an issue, as I have seen it voiced here quite a bit in the last week. However, I can not confirm, it is not MY issue. I just posted a proposed solution to a perceived issue is all. Someone with the records available(PGI) would have to look into it and see if there is an actual issue or not here regarding some of the players voicing their tales of double digit loss streaks with no discernable PSR adjustment going on.

[EekaBlitzer]

No need for this. 'Just' get MM working to produce well balanced games in the solo queue.
Not wishing to sound sarcastic, but it should not exactly be rocket science.

[2MyBalls]

Prosperity Park, on 25 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think the solution is much easier than people think...

If you got into a high tier artificially and are getting beaten to oblivion, then just continue getting pummeled until your PSR goes down...

thats the problem..... losing over 10 matches in row and not even 10% of the tier is "removed"... should I lose 1000 matches to get to my proper tier?... the scaling fells just not rigth. Its to much static.

We need faster up and downscaling.

you see, all I wanna do is to lvl up my ligths, but as a new ligth-pilot its more luck&learning.... in upper tier 3 this means: got pummeled ALL day long and im still sitting in middle tier 3, and get tier 1 opponents.

Trough faster up- and downscaling the PSR, the MM would be more dynamic..
+ Get 5 matches with really bad scores = BOOM... one tier down
+ Get 5 super matches = BOOM .. try to play with the big guys
e.t.c.

This way your actual play-performance would be important, and not the games you played a month ago.

[crashlogic]

I guess as a tier three player i see the problem differntly because I have players from every tier in my matches. I can say that when I am playing with mostly lower tier players my team gets stomped. When I am playing with higher tier players my team does the stomping. On the whole, I see more tediously one sided matches than I do nail biting close ones.

[DAYLEET]

I just wish you could lock the matchmaker to only drop you with people your tier. Every time i have to let it search further than 60 seconds i get lousy matches whether i lose or win. Group is a complete joke, there is zero teamplay in group, the more group you get the more head the snake has and they each have their own agenda, these people would get destroyed in solo.

[Zordicron]

DAYLEET, on 25 September 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I just wish you could lock the matchmaker to only drop you with people your tier. Every time i have to let it search further than 60 seconds i get lousy matches whether i lose or win. Group is a complete joke, there is zero teamplay in group, the more group you get the more head the snake has and they each have their own agenda, these people would get destroyed in solo.

I dropped with you tonight a few times, not too long ago.

My night went that way also, bad, bad stomps(solo). Real late, like the last hour here, my matches got really decent again. It took longer, to get my late matches. Those early ones, man, that was some depressing **** right there. I had a few "**** it" moments even, prolly should have logged out, I was not in a good mood for the game for a solid hour and a half during prime time NA.

The thing with tiers, and the way they valued dmg and matches played- i get it, they want to seperate the new plaers from the vets, and #matches played is a way to do that.

but, adding in other things, like the value of raw dmg in the match score, and being tier 3+ doesnt mean you are suddenly "good", I mean yeah people improve. But, case in point, tonight most of my "OMG" matches, Ihad a coupe guys on VOIP that had NO clue whatsoever about what was happening, where the enemy was, or even apparently how the mpas worked or common positions. I had a match in my Adder on frozen city where I was in the lower spawn, and got powered up late for som reason(late entry into match? I dunno, I wasnt afk) and basically entire enemy team had moved into the b4 grid in the city area, and shot my back out, well, one ST as i tried to escape. my team? all the way on the top of cowards ridge was or heavy lance with assaults plodding behind. VOP guy:

"lloks like there is a mech or two over in B4, couple lights"
ME: "the whole enemy team is there, which is why i typed the grid into the chat when they shot half my mech apart"
VOIP guy: "looks like they have a warhawk there too maybe"
Team mate: pops a UAV, entire red team of doritos is smashed so close together in the city you cant make them out.

By now Voip guy has directed assaultlance tomove to a position to make a fire line, and then tells his heavy lance to flank behind the warhawk, apparently still oblivious to the radar and chat, and anything. Assaultlance got rolled over, lights got chewed up trying to assist, and finally heavy lance comes in, alpha strikes a couple times and dies horrid deaths.

I am tier 2. This was prime time, I am sure most if not all combatants were same tier(unless there is really that few people online) OBLIVIOUS players can advance into higher tiers too, they just need more #matches played to get pitted in matches with tier 1 and 2.

To that end, i do not know how PGI could seperate that type of thing, theoretically win/loss, BUT, I mean, I won/lost too, and it certainly wasnt my fault voip guy was a total dunderhead and lead the team to disaster, disregarding the info his team mates put in front of him.

in short, I dont think we will ever see the end of stomps, not without a major pass like makeing several of these tiny maps into 8 vs 8 and 4 vs 4 maps and the like. When your input into the team is less then 10%(if the team is balanced skill wise, which is what we are after in the end), it makes it kinda hard to use w/l as a decideing factor on PSR.

Ayway, after my stompfest(on both sides) for like 3 hours tonight, I am begining to think there isnt an issue with tiers per se, but more matchmaker, and just gameplay stuff like cramming 24 mechs onto frozen city with 50 point LPL alphastrikes.

[Mycrus]

Prosperity Park, on 25 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

I think the solution is much easier than people think...

If you got into a high tier artificially and are getting beaten to oblivion, then just continue getting pummeled until your PSR goes down...

Their egos may not survive the pummeling.

[XX Sulla XX]

LRM boats suffering is a bad thing how?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Only thing I can come up with is low population. No system will work with that. My match wait times have increased dramatically this past month and all I have been seeing is top twitch shooters. I made mention on another thread about how I fought a match last night with several regular forums posters. Of those I knew they were tier 1s. I am 3 3/4 right now. It was my best match last night in the crab with 311 dam and 5 assists. all 500-1000 mtrs. Could not poke and get a shot off unless it was under laser fire even when repositioning. Actually won that match but it was the tier ones on my team who carried. No one was on chat or voip yet they moved as a unit and I struggled to anticipate and move with them from cover to cover.

No offense but the guy telling us just to keep losing and drop down is missing a point. Its not fun, its just work. feels like practicing suicide more than anything else.

[Alistair Winter]

Death Proof, on 24 September 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Honestly, I think with the PSR/Tiers should have come a stat reset.

If they are going to redo a major element of the game, everyone needs to start fresh. The old stats no longer hold any meaning with the new MM.

I know a lot of people would cry, but it's actually pretty sound logic if you ask me.

Yep. And just increase the significance of the first 100 matches or so.

[Idealsuspect]

whatever reset stats or not...
PSR is bad designed anti-pinpoint events just proove it and same with rise or drop curve >>> with 50 matchscore in winning team your PSR rise even you did nothing in fact even DC your psr rise what the logical ?...

And what about put new players into tier 4, they don't know maps, have bad builds ( coze no money no xp ) and they don't know how move ( like thoses guys in assauts who still camp at cap point waiting the C3 tsunami )

Yep thoses news players play with tier 3 2 1 veterans ... very smart

Edited by Idealsuspect, 26 September 2015 - 05:45 AM.