24 replies to this topic

[Chryckan]

As a new player do you really need to buy 3 variants of the same chassis when starting out?

Now I know why you should focus on a single mech, all the arguments about mastery and elite skills, about CW competitiveness and metamechs and so on and so on, ad infinity.

But here is the deal.

I'm just starting out and I like the game (and the background). But I'm starting to get bored playing what often feels like sub-par trial mechs. Not to mention I want to get access to the rest of the games feature such as skills, modules, customization and the like.
After just running trial mechs for awhile the game gets a very demo-ish feel. Which is understandable.

So the next step is to buy a mech or three (if you follow most guides) with C-bills.

Now every strategy guide and advice out there says that to be competitive you need to buy three variants of the same mech chassis and grind them until get them to mastery level.

However, I four mechbay slots and there are 50+ mechs out there. I want to try out and play around with as many of those mechs that I can (which is a total of four). Not fill my mechbay with a single mech type that often have a similar loadout across the board.

(Granted, I could just buy more mech bays but that costs REAL monies and I'm not sure want to spend it to gain immaterial stuff until I know I'll be dedicated to the game. Sure, if I'm still am playing it daily in six months time then I won't have any qualms about dumping loads of real cash on the game. But less than two weeks in I'm still finding my feet so before I solve any problem with money I rather see if I can try all aspects of the game before I go wild with a credit card.)

But at the same time I don't want to end up four more sub-par trial mechs because just buying a single variant of a chassis won't allow unlock the advantages the trial mechs often lack.

So can you buy four different mechs when starting out and still get better performance than the rest of the trial mech or is the game mechanics construed in such way that going the three variants path is the only feasible to get something better than than the trial mechs?

Just to clarify I intend to use them for having fun in public matches and not play CW with them.
If I later find that I want to immerse myself in CW or find a mech type I love to play I'll naturally expect to get more variants and level them up but for now I just want to play around and have fun piloting as many mechs as I can.

[Stormie]

Id be trying to get 2 of two different types of mech that when used together will make a decent CW drop deck. yes you wont be able to fully level them up, but you will only need one more mech to do so later.
having a CW drop deck will allow you to grind some of the factions for more mech bays (the give them out at rank two and six if I remember correctly)
I would be suggesting a heavy and a medium.
Others will no doubt tell you that you have to go all in on one mech, but at the end of the day its your game. having chassis that you can customise is 10x more powerful than fully mastering a mech (when compared to trial mechs.)

[Golrar]

You could always buy a mech, finish the basic skills, and then sell it for the next variant, but I don't recommend it because you will eventually have to buy it back for full price.

Nothing says you have to buy all three variants at once. You could buy a hunch, buy a treb, a cat, and a spider and get them all to basic and then decide if you want to spend real money for more mechbays to start skilling the other variants. Just because you can't buy the elite skills yet doesn't mean you stop earning XP, so you can get a head start on your elite skill costs while playing at the basic level.

[sycocys]

Most of the mechs have a trial version you can run.

[dragnier1]

You don't have to own 3 variants of the same mech. You could just purchase 4 different mechs as already mentioned. They will run better than trials since you can complete basic skills.

Of cause that would mean you'll miss out on the elite tier and master tier skills until you decide to get 3 variants of the same chassis, as well as the 2x basic bonus. A trade-off for trying out different mechs.

As for CW you get free mechbays as you progress through the ranks (list is in-game), that's one of the reasons others recommend it. You don't have to push for CW if you aren't interested. PUG and group matches are good enough and there are events that include mechbays as rewards you could take part in.

I do suggest looking at variants of certain chassis (hunchback is an example) that allows variety across them so you wouldn't feel bored as options. The difference in play style and required tactics are less varied as opposed to chassis across different weight groups.

[FlipOver]

You don't have to buy 3 variants.
You can just buy one and pilot that mech with the Basics unlocked.

Now, if you want to unlock Elite and Master slots, you need to have 2 more variants.

Something that's been discussed at length in the past, but it's how it is now.

About the Mechbays, currently you have alternative methods of getting those. Tournaments, Challenges, CW.
Even if you don't get ANY mechbay, you are able to play with the trial mechs (which are a lot and fairly regularly switched for other versions) and you can even buy some mechs to customize at a total of 4 at the same time.

I managed to master 3 mechs while still having 4 mechbays, back in the day. Of course I chose to buy and lose c-bills by selling them to free up mechbays. But I managed to do it. Takes time and in-game currency, but it's possible. Just didn't do the same with the 4th mech because it was an Atlas and those were extremely pricey for me to be buying and selling and buying again, etc.

TL;DR - In a hurry to have more mechs to customize? Buy just one and use it, unlock basic and go at it.
Want more out of the mech? Buy 2 more variants and unlock the Basic on them.
Mechbays needed? Either go for CW or keep an eye out for Tournaments or Challenges.

[Mike McSullivan]

1. Yes, you need 3 variants to level the mechs above the basic skills.
2. If nothing changed in the last few months, you keep the XP for trialmechs you earn in matches. to make it clear: you play 25 games with the Raven 3L-Trial. Later you think, well i like that thingy and as you buy it all XP you made so far are unlocked.
3. I dont really know where the "all Trials are trash" is coming from. I just checked them. The Banshee, the Thunderbolt, Griffin and Raven might be not toptier mechs, but they have DHS, have good engines and nearly all full armor. A few years ago we had stockmechs (right from TT rulebooks) with slow engines, singleheatsinks, crappy weaponry and sometimes 60% or less armor! Maybe that "rumor" is coming from that times. Sure unskilled Trial-Mechs are a bit worse then mastered ones, but so are new non-Trials.
3b.The trials dont include Meta-mechs, and nearly all Clan-Trials are horrible (sorry if you want to be a Clanner ). But to be honest, Clan mechs are not meant to be Beginnerstuff.

4: So, do your Cadet-matches, play the Tutorial (+5million CBills), choose the Trial you like the most and have fun. Noone is forcing you to play with the "Big Guys" from the start .
5. If you keep playing you will stumble over so called Events from time to time, where you can win lots of stuff. From CBills to MC, from weapons to free premium time. Even sometimes whole Mechs(!).

Have Fun and welcome to MWO

[Nightshade24]

In the situation of wanting to have viarity, having your first mech that has 3 variants that are very different from each other could help or have choices for lots of differences.

For instance if you get say for example you get the Shadowhawk (55 ton IS medium mech)

You got a wide range to choose from...

you can get the Shadowhawk 2H which has 3 ballistic, 1 energy, and 3 missile hardpoints where you can put 3 AC 2's for long range fire suppression and support, 3 SRM 2's and a Medium laser when enemies get in close quarters. etc...

So we got a long range ballistic sniper here with missile support weapons... what else can we do?...

Well the Shadowhawk 2K has 3 energy and 3 missile hardpoints but the energy is in the upper side torso like the ballistics instead of the arms and you can go with say a triple large laser build or an ER PPC with tripple SRM streak 2's.
This time a higher firepower sniper energy mech.... or 3 medium pulse lasers and 3 streak 2's with a big engine for a light hunter...

What else can you do? well you can grab the 2D2 and get 2 medium lasers, an AC 10, and quad LRM 5's for long range fire support.... this time you got a mixed range LRM boat or a skirmisher...
or quad SRM 4 or 2 and an AC 5 or 10...


etc, across the 3 chassis ,you can have very fast light hunters, LRM boat, Ballistics brawler, snipers, skirmishers, or energy brawler, snipers, skirmishers, or SRM boats / brawlers... etc...


Of course not all chassis are this unique between each variant, mechsl ike the wolfhound, crab, black knight, barely have any feature differences besides quirks and location of hardpoints. Some mechs like Catapult are mostly LRM boats with some energy hardpoints where 1 catapult has 6 missile and 0 energy hardpoints but another has 4 energy 2 ballistics- having 2 ballistic the smae locaiton as the energy in the side torso BUT the other 2 energy is up high in the arms ready to snipe with often large lasers or PPC's...


So yea, you may want one of the higher variarity options up there, clan omnimechs (currently all of them )are also good choices as they cna switch omnipods so you can have an LRM boat stormcrow, a laser boat, a brawler with SRM's and a UAC 20, what ever yo uwant and this can be all in 1 mech variant... however you need to buy the other 2 still nad the omnipods cost c-bills.... spend enough on many omnipods and you may end up having enough to buy another stormcrow if you didn't waste money...

if you like the game enough you can buy mechbays later on after you have fun with the mech you bought to get more mechs or sell 2 of your mechs that you do not need (after mastery you do not require them to maintain mastery) and go for another 3 mechs but then some limitations could occur.

[JonahGrimm]

Dude.

It's your game - play it how you want to play it! If you want four different mechs, then have at. Whatever suits you!

I would be remiss, however, if I didn't mention that getting through elites on a chassis does really transform it in a fairly dramatic fashion. It is, however, by no means necessary.

You do what you do. Have fun /your/ way! I magnanimously grant you permission to do so.

[Rogue Jedi]

Any Mech you pilot (yes including the trial Mechs) earns you XP for that chassis, you can only spend that XP if you own the chassis,

the basic skills make the Mech run cooler and generally more responsive,

the elite skills continue that theme but also add faster firing weapons and a 10% speed boost, however when you complete the elite skills ^{(referred to as eliting the Mech)} the effectiveness of all basic level skills is doubled, to unlock the elite skills you must first complete all basic skills on 3 variants of the same chassis, that is 3 different names/numbers of Mech in that chassis, Mechs with a suffix in brackets so ending in (C) ® (I) (P) (S) (L) (F) or any other similar ending count as the same model without the suffix.

completing Elites is a significant advantage but is not vital, especially for solo queue play.

it is entirely up to you, if you are interested in being a top level competitave player then you definately will want to complete the Elite skills on as many Mechs as possible, but if you are happy playing casualy (and many people are including me) then you do not need to Elite your Mechs,

if you decide you do not like a Mech and need the Mechbay I would still recommend finishing basic skills before selling it, when I was first starting out I discounted chassis because I tried a variant and did not like it, not realizing that there were other variants with a completely different play-style, in several cases those Mechs I discounted (Hunchback and Spider) are now my favorite Mechs

Mastering your Mechs (completing the master tier) unlocks an extra module slot for a Mech or Weapon Module, as modules cost more than some Mechs and have to be unlocked with GXP (which accumulates at the rate of 5% of XP earned) first I would not worry about mastering anything until you ether have a lot of Mechs or want to start playing competitively, to unlock Master you must first complete elite on 3 variants in the same weight class

[mad kat]

Don't fall into the three mech trap. Buy them one at a time usually starting with what you feel is going to be the worst variant. (Getting an idea of what will be worst first is hard for a new player so look at hardpoints weapon loadouts on smurfys etc). Always save the variant you want to keep till last as a goal you want to work too.

A good rule of thumb is to start with a variant that runs relatively cool i.e. a ballistic weapon based mech or something that can use LRM's effectively to save having to waste too much money on Double heat sinks (despite them being typically the best upgrade for overal performance due to weight saving then heat efficiency). Then move onto a variant that can take some decent mid to long range direct fire weaponry then once you have these two with just enough XP to basic them get rid of them ASAP and if you have the funds buy the one you want to focus on.

Use those trial mechs too they have been given respectable but certainly not amazing builds to save you from having to upgrade every variant. Using the trial mechs you then at least only have to upgrade two. Also by using the trial mech you can buy the same variant apply the skills that you have got from the trial version then immediately sell it

One last thing don't worry at all about the mastery level it only gives you another module slot which are grossly overpriced items anyway just focus on eliting the mechs.

Edited by mad kat, 21 October 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[Void Angel]

Chryckan, on 21 October 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

As a new player do you really need to buy 3 variants of the same chassis when starting out?

Now I know why you should focus on a single mech, all the arguments about mastery and elite skills, about CW competitiveness and metamechs and so on and so on, ad infinity.

But here is the deal.

I'm just starting out and I like the game (and the background). But I'm starting to get bored playing what often feels like sub-par trial mechs. Not to mention I want to get access to the rest of the games feature such as skills, modules, customization and the like.
After just running trial mechs for awhile the game gets a very demo-ish feel. Which is understandable.

So the next step is to buy a mech or three (if you follow most guides) with C-bills.

Now every strategy guide and advice out there says that to be competitive you need to buy three variants of the same mech chassis and grind them until get them to mastery level.

However, I four mechbay slots and there are 50+ mechs out there. I want to try out and play around with as many of those mechs that I can (which is a total of four). Not fill my mechbay with a single mech type that often have a similar loadout across the board.

(Granted, I could just buy more mech bays but that costs REAL monies and I'm not sure want to spend it to gain immaterial stuff until I know I'll be dedicated to the game. Sure, if I'm still am playing it daily in six months time then I won't have any qualms about dumping loads of real cash on the game. But less than two weeks in I'm still finding my feet so before I solve any problem with money I rather see if I can try all aspects of the game before I go wild with a credit card.)

But at the same time I don't want to end up four more sub-par trial mechs because just buying a single variant of a chassis won't allow unlock the advantages the trial mechs often lack.

So can you buy four different mechs when starting out and still get better performance than the rest of the trial mech or is the game mechanics construed in such way that going the three variants path is the only feasible to get something better than than the trial mechs?

Just to clarify I intend to use them for having fun in public matches and not play CW with them.
If I later find that I want to immerse myself in CW or find a mech type I love to play I'll naturally expect to get more variants and level them up but for now I just want to play around and have fun piloting as many mechs as I can.

If you want to escape that demo-ish feel, then yes, you need to focus on one 'mech. You don't have to keep all the variants if you really don't want to, but you won't be able to really evaluate the 'mechs until you've gotten doubled basics. My advice on buying MC is to ask a simple question: "based on how much fun I've played thus far, would I get enough fun out of this to compare with other entertainment options?" The minimum purchase of MC is about the price of a fast food combination meal in most places - less than a movie ticket - so if you expect to have enough enjoyment to make up the cost, you're good; even if you quit the day after that. I bought the old Phoenix package a year or so ago - it's the best 80 bucks I've ever spent on video games, so if I decide to hang up my hat tomorrow, it's still a good deal.

Also, as you play and participate in the periodic events - and Community Warfare - you'll get MC and mech bays from PGI just for playing. I have like four mech bays right now that sit empty because I don't have the c-bills to fill them. ;D

[Maver0ick]

If you don't mind playing unelited mechs against people with mastered mechs, then you don't need to own 3 variants. Just know that your mechs will not be as good as your opponents. Most mechs become much better after speed tweek. If you are ok with constantly performing below your teammates then it is fine not to elite and master your mechs if you prefer variety.

Trial mechs are build by the community and as far as I know should be good mechs. They are sub par because they do not have the unlocked skills and they may force you to use weapon(s) that you do not like. The basic skills of owned mechs only give marginal improvements and speed tweek gives a huge improvement.

With the 4 mech bays, you can still get variety, though potentially at a cost of cbills

1. Get 3 variants and master your favorite variant and sell the other 2.
2. Get 3 variants of a different chassis and master your favorite variant and sell the other 2.
3, At this point you will have 2 free mech bays and you can no longer master a mech without selling a mastered mech but you can still try 2 other mechs and still get variety with the trial mechs.
You lose cbills only if you re-buy something you have sold.

You can get free mech bays in the game.

I recommend concentrating on mastering mechs over getting modules.

Edited by Maverdick, 21 October 2015 - 05:27 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

And mechbays are inexpensive, for $6.95 = 1250MC, mechbays=300mc which would get you 4 mechbays, or meter out the purchases.. Or wait until there are sales for MC (get % more compared to regular price) and/or Mechbays (150MC), or a combination of now and later purchases.

Besides getting Mechbays via CW, tourneys and such, there are and have been opportunities to earn MC.

I would advise against selling mechs and equipment, especially equipment (other than single heat sinks). You do not get full price but approx half price on selling things back, then having to purchase said things at full price again.

Also changing a mech from SHS to DHS, adding endosteel, ferro-fibrous armor or artemis does not increase the price of the mech when selling back. And changing from one to another and back is an additional cost at time of purchase every time.

[TheRedZealot]

I would second the idea that a Mech Pack is worth the investment. Getting 3-4 Chassis in each weight class is very good value. Worst case scenario you hate a specific chassis class you can sell all but the champion variant. This gives you the Cbills and mech bays to start buying new replacement mechs.

Plus the champion mechs give you bonus CBills for reduced grinding later.

[Khereg]

You've got a lot of good opinions above. The important thing is that you're happy with your experience in game. If you're happy with mechs that are only basic'ed, then don't worry about getting the three chassis.

However, if you want to see what elited mechs feel like, you'll have to take the plunge. I will tell you that my feelings are you aren't really playing a mech until you have speed tweak. As you play longer, you'll find that almost everyone around you is playing elited chassis and you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by moving 10% slower with 10% less responsiveness. That may not seem like much, but believe me, it makes a substantial difference.

From there, it's just a few thousand XP to double your basic skills, which also has a significant impact. Going all the way to get the extra module slot is nice, but considering the price of modules and the fact that as a new player you are c-bill limited, I wouldn't worry about getting there in a hurry.

Bottom line, if you want to improve your performance in game, you're intentionally handicapping yourself by not eliting your mechs. If you don't care about that, there's no need to spend the c-bills and buy the mech bays, assuming you're happy with the game and your experience in it.

Edited by Khereg, 21 October 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Chados]

I've always felt that you want 3, at least til you get basics unlocked, because an elited mech is very different from the same mech in just basics. Full elites double the bonuses for basics.

[CorranHorn]

You could buy 4 different mechs, for the CW reason to have a drop deck and win more mechbays to allow you more mechs. Or at the very least to allow you to see what mechs you like and don't like. Find one you do and then buy 2 more of that kind. I know in the past I have bought all three mechs of a chasis. I liked one or two, Got the basics and elites done, then sold the ones I did not like to make room for more mechs I wanted to try.
The academy, cadet bonuses, challenges, achievements, cw can all give you a bonus to your c-bill earnings for a little bit, some go away, others slow down because it takes time. This will allow you to afford more mechs of your choosing, and will get you mechbays to allow those purchases.
Pretty much just echoing Maverdick said, but I did not see his post till after I wrote mine so I am positing it anyways.
Biggest thing when playing MWO, enjoy the game, play how you want to play, the mechs you want to play, if you join a team be a teammate, criticize the game constructively to help out all.

[JC Daxion]

What you should do is just spend 7 bucks, and then use that MC and buy mech bays.. this way you can unlock 3 different mechs, with 3 variants.

Use the trials to decide what you are liking.. I would suggest IS medium and heavies as your starters.. Shadow hawks and HBKs are great mediums.. though i love cents for my ballistic/missile mechs, and cicadas are a medium that plays like a little more forgiving light.

heavies, thunder bolts are just a great solid mech. they tank well, but are more energy based.. Jagers are the Ballistic mechs.. though i do have a soft spot for catapults, and the K2 and Jester are both great mechs. the missile ones your millage may vary..


So in other words, Yes, get 3 mechs.. but spend a little money and buy some bays.. it's worth it.

[Koniving]

Chryckan, on 21 October 2015 - 12:54 AM, said:

So can you buy four different mechs when starting out and still get better performance than the rest of the trial mech or is the game mechanics construed in such way that going the three variants path is the only feasible to get something better than than the trial mechs?

Just to clarify I intend to use them for having fun in public matches and not play CW with them.
If I later find that I want to immerse myself in CW or find a mech type I love to play I'll naturally expect to get more variants and level them up but for now I just want to play around and have fun piloting as many mechs as I can.

In most cases "Anything" will get better performance than the 'trial' or 'champion' mech builds. This is because the trial builds are very niche in that they work great at one purpose and any other use... well you'd probably do better on foot with a 9mm pistol.

What I would personally suggest is to acquire different mechs until you find one that you enjoy. Then go hoarding its variants. Some you'll like, some you won't. Sometimes you'll find that no matter how similar mech A and B are... one just suits you better.

An example, the Hunchback and Shadowhawk before quirks are incredibly similar. I love the Hunchback, but I find the Shadowhawk to be a piece of garbage. They both do the same thing, they both are very well made, both can do some amazing stuff and its true, the Shadowhawk can do more than the Hunchback. Doesn't mean I like it. The ability to jump isn't that important to me, personally, but being able to spin around and shoot behind me is. And its little things like that which distinguish the 'not so good' machine as much better in my eyes.

Very easily, the Wolverine and Kintaro and Griffin are quite closely matched. Yet there's things about them which go beyond the quirks that distinguish them. I like the Griffin, love the Kintaro and zomg the Wolverine! Yet I have a friend who loves the Griffin, hates the Wolverine and thinks the Kintaro is okay. And I have another who thinks Griffins are absolute garbage, that Wolverines are okay, and that Kintaros are "Swag."

Find what suits you. Then start your collection. Screw the guides, screw the "I know better than you" advice you often see on metamechs. Find out what is fun and start from there.

I should know -- my favorite mech mounts a crapload of useless weapons....and I laugh as I burn those pompous meta mechs.


And while not fantastic, my high score with it isn't all that bad either.

Edited by Koniving, 21 October 2015 - 09:00 AM.