54 replies to this topic

[zagibu]

His point is that you should be able to mount non-artemis equipped launchers even if the mech has an artemis system installed. I think.

[Revis Volek]

zagibu, on 21 October 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

His point is that you should be able to mount non-artemis equipped launchers even if the mech has an artemis system installed. I think.

No you should not....

You are not paying for parts, you are paying for your mech to be able to accept these parts. The parts are bought later in the mechlab after the upgrade is made to the mech.

If your mech is made to take Art missiles why would non Artemis missiles work, why do you think they should just plug in? Be backwards compatible like PC parts?

They are a different beast, you use different launchers, different ammo and they don't even weight the same, so saying they should just fall in the same holes and work is kinda a silly statement as well. The only thing they have in common is they share the same hardpoint type, are Missiles and have the same missile cluster sizes as there non Artemis counter parts.

But this is like saying the wheels off a Lifted Ford F-250 should fit on a Honda Accord...the are both tires and make the car go round, are black and even both have aluminum rims...but i guarantee they wont fit without modifying your Honda. (i bet it would be more then 1.5mill Cbills too )

Edited by DarthRevis, 21 October 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Almond Brown]

cdlord, on 21 October 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Won't know till the end will we? I wish I had spare cash to throw at them though.....

I meant the Base TT BT game has R&R does it not?

[CDLord HHGD]

Almond Brown, on 22 October 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

I meant the Base TT BT game has R&R does it not?

Well, of a sort, yes and depends on the GM too. In my experience, most "games" are single battles and any repairs done are in the field and in the time constraints of the match.

[Joseph Mallan]

Niflheim123, on 21 October 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

So i have a mech that has standard heat sinks. I saved some C for double, which I bought. Now if I want to use Standard again I have to buy them again. Why?

Well will a mechanic reinstall your old engine for free if you? There is a service cost to take out/reinstall your sinks.

[CDLord HHGD]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

Well will a mechanic reinstall your old engine for free if you? There is a service cost to take out/reinstall your sinks.

Just be lucky that we don't have to pay for every trip to the mechlab..... Some say it could be better. I say it could be far worse.

[BARBAR0SSA]

SHS may be useful in future

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.1 (up from 1).

Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Double Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.5 (up from 1.4).

Clan Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 0.15 (up from 0.14). <--- not sure wtf
  
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.2 (down from 1.4)

[Joseph Mallan]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Just be lucky that we don't have to pay for every trip to the mechlab..... Some say it could be better. I say it could be far worse.

I have a spreadsheet that tracked the repair costs and time required to get a Mech back to mint. I also had a Quartermaster's inventory for the Unit.

"Ok we 'could' have up and running in 17 hours. IF we had the Right Foot Actuator you need."

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 October 2015 - 08:02 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I have a spreadsheet that tracked the repair costs and time required to get a Mech back to mint. I also had a Quartermaster's inventory for the Unit.

"Ok we 'could' have up and running in 17 hours. IF we had the Right Foot Actuator you need."

I just wish there were all these features we could opt into depending on the level of immersion we desire. Some people want to log in and rampage while others (like myself) want to be a part of the battletech universe.

Best of both worlds is to add the flavor as an option with a mechanic that neither benefits nor hinders the mechanics of the game outside of what is defined making it optional.

[Whatzituyah]

shad0w4life, on 22 October 2015 - 07:58 AM, said:

SHS may be useful in future

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.1 (up from 1).

Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Double Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.5 (up from 1.4).

Clan Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 0.15 (up from 0.14). <--- not sure wtf
  
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.2 (down from 1.4)

This needs more tweaks because there is nothing saying that they are nerfing the True Double Heatsinks in the engines.

[Mechteric]

There's no need to ever go back to single heat sinks, so... problem solved?

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Obviously, you need them for your BoomBird so you can add FF and squeeze a teensy bit more tonnage into your favorite beaked abomination.

...but no, generally speaking, you won't ever need SHS. They're for troll builds, and unless you're planning a troll build, you should never drop in a 'Mech until you've paid the DHS tax. You can sell off all your extra SHS for a few extra cbills and buy a few lasers or something. Best to wait until you have a pile of 50 or so; it's more satisfying to sell 'em in bulk.

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 22 October 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[Burktross]

Whereas in A Battletech campaign conversions for upgrades take time, in Mechwarrior, they only cost sweet sweet cheddar.
It sucks though. I feel you bro.

[Almond Brown]

Let's not forget though that ONLY the SHS can be placed in the Legs , sans Clan Mechs, and receive that ever present Cooling Bonus while Submerged.

P.S. Do Clan DHS get a Submerged Bonus? Hmmmm...

Edited by Almond Brown, 22 October 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

You get the water bonus for at most 4 heat sinks... so with a 170 rated engine or lower with 4 of your 10 heat sinks total in the legs, you'd get +40% of normal cooling... which still leaves you inferior to a DHS build with 10 sinks even without the water immersion bonus (since the engine sinks are 2.0s, which gives you a 76% bonus with 6 engine sinks and 4 chassis sinks over 10 SHS compared to the mere 40% bonus for having 4 of your 10 SHS immersed in water), and the gap only widens from there as you increase your engine size. That's the closest you'll ever get to breaking even with SHS, at least until you get up into assaults and have the tonnage to fill nearly every available crit slot on your 'Mech with them... and only then on builds running minimally viable laservomit loadouts specifically designed to work better with SHS than DHS.

Compounding the above, there are only four maps on which water fighting is even possible (Crimson Strait, Caustic Valley, River City, and Forest Colony), and only two of them (River City and Forest Colony) see any significant action in the water on a regular basis. The water bonus is therefore worthless and offers no incentive to take SHS over DHS- all it offers is a slight consolation prize to the handful of troll builds that actually run the inferior hardware.

Edited by PS WrathOfDeadguy, 22 October 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[Water Bear]

Almond Brown, on 22 October 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

I meant the Base TT BT game has R&R does it not?

What do you mean by "base game"?

The BT board game doesn't come with any role playing elements by default. You unfold a map, put some pieces on it, and start rolling dice. (Edit: What I mean by this is that you do not have to use any rules other than the combat rules).

There are repair / salvage / customization rules but AFAIK they are entirely optional and based upon whether or not you feel like adding RPG elements to your game.

Edited by Water Bear, 22 October 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[Niflheim123]

So I belive I got my answer, because you have to spend your C credits. In other words, its a developer idea of making you play more so that if you want that, you have to pay. For me the kind of this attitude is a deal breaker. Uninstalling.

[XtremWarrior]

Well, that escalated quickly...

[Almond Brown]

Water Bear, on 22 October 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

What do you mean by "base game"?

The BT board game doesn't come with any role playing elements by default. You unfold a map, put some pieces on it, and start rolling dice. (Edit: What I mean by this is that you do not have to use any rules other than the combat rules).

There are repair / salvage / customization rules but AFAIK they are entirely optional and based upon whether or not you feel like adding RPG elements to your game.

I guess what I meant was if you lose an ARM with 2 ML in it, they would have to be replaced at the players expense, along with the Arm, unless the player wished to go back out with just one arm? Most GM's would require at least that level of maintenance right?

PS WrathOfDeadguy, on 22 October 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

You get the water bonus for at most 4 heat sinks... so with a 170 rated engine or lower with 4 of your 10 heat sinks total in the legs, you'd get +40% of normal cooling... which still leaves you inferior to a DHS build with 10 sinks even without the water immersion bonus (since the engine sinks are 2.0s, which gives you a 76% bonus with 6 engine sinks and 4 chassis sinks over 10 SHS compared to the mere 40% bonus for having 4 of your 10 SHS immersed in water), and the gap only widens from there as you increase your engine size. That's the closest you'll ever get to breaking even with SHS, at least until you get up into assaults and have the tonnage to fill nearly every available crit slot on your 'Mech with them... and only then on builds running minimally viable laservomit loadouts specifically designed to work better with SHS than DHS.

Compounding the above, there are only four maps on which water fighting is even possible (Crimson Strait, Caustic Valley, River City, and Forest Colony), and only two of them (River City and Forest Colony) see any significant action in the water on a regular basis. The water bonus is therefore worthless and offers no incentive to take SHS over DHS- all it offers is a slight consolation prize to the handful of troll builds that actually run the inferior hardware.

OK, so that is how the Min-Max'rs and Spreadsheet warriors would critically break it down... Point still being, if you have ONLY SHS on board, place 4 in the Legs and hope you get a water Map... lol

XtremWarrior, on 26 October 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Well, that escalated quickly...

Must be his first, and likely last F2P game. They all work the same way... A +1 Sword is not as good as a +5 Sword...

[zagibu]

Almond Brown, on 26 October 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Must be his first, and likely last F2P game. They all work the same way... A +1 Sword is not as good as a +5 Sword...

While this is true, in some other games, a +1 sword at least has some value for some time. But since MWO is competitive, and doesn't care much about player progress, SHS are just a liability. If you are a high tier player and buy a new mech and don't immediately equip it with DHS, you are just playing with a handicap.