385 replies to this topic

[Tarl Cabot]

Quinton, on 04 March 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

There is an inherent disconnect between the tabletop game and the computer game, especially where accuracy and speed of gameplay is concerned. IIRC in tabletop 1 round = 20 seconds of real time, the total amount of damage a weapon does is assumed to be over the course of those 20 seconds. For instance, medium lasers do 5 damage, to make the math easier lets assume the medium laser can be fired every 4 seconds, its per shot damage is only 1 but over the course of 1 round (20 seconds) the game assumes if you hit on your roll that you did your full effect.

snips

Theres my 2 cents, do with them as you will.

Major corrections - the basic BT turn is 10secs with 30m/hex. MWO is closer to the BT: Solaris board game that is broken down into 2.5sec turns, 7.5 m/hex, and with weapons having different firing delays (cooldown), and actual TICs (total 3 weapon groupings). Per turn a player could fire one weapon or one TIC, and it took a turn to change up a TIC.

In it # and type of heat sinks provided a smaller buffer over heat cap when compared to standard BT (1/4th). ERLL/LPL/ERPPC-PPC also had the longest delays/cooldown timers of 3 delay (7.5secs). So they may be a mech's primary weapon but once the range closed having only that weapon was a severe detriment to the mech.

On top that it the Heat Scale was more filled out with negative consequences of a pilot riding the heat, something that is sorely missing from MWO. And it would not need to include all thresholds, just 2-3 additional levels that affects a mech's speed/agility, and possibly an additional override threshold before exceeding max threshold.

PGI has already shown it can do it with the additional movement penalty added with the loss of a side torso w/cXL, which then should be removed if a more fleshed out heatscale was to be implemented.

And it is not just the pinpoint alpha, it is how quickly it can be repeated without any serious consequence. Why PGI is going to try to put another type of governor in place when its current heat scale is missing critical components is beyond me.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 March 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[SweetJackal]

For me, the simplest solution is treating torso mounted weapons as though they are on a WWII fighter plane and give them fixed convergence to their optimum range.

Meaning arm weapons function as they are now and torso weapons will not have any random spread. Instead the torso weapons will hit the target off center from the crosshair in a reliable and repeatable fashion dependent on the physical location they are mounted on the mech, the weapon system used, and the distance between you and the target.

This consistent and reliable offset allows a player to adjust their aim by these factors to maintain accurate fire. This is the same skills used for adjusting your aim of a modern firearm to take distance and other factors into account to hit a target.

This means that Alphas will have their damage spread out over multiple locations unless the target is large enough or unless you have all your weapons in your torsos sharing the optimum range and being at your optimum range. Mixed optimum ranges or weapons in different torsos fired outside of optimum range will still be able to be pinpoint accurate by stagger firing the weapons by similar profile groups and adjusting aim between shots, giving your opponent more time to react.

This increases TTK, increases the skill cap of the game as a whole and adds more depth to mech building by providing more benefits and tradeoffs to weapon locations and weapon profiles.

But no matter what is done about the perceived problem, the solution needs to be something that is repeatable and consistent so it can be mitigated by skill. Though there is skill in reducing the random elements of cone of fire doing a good cone of fire system would require CS:GO level of complexity and lacking that complexity I feel it doesn't belong in the attempted simulator environment of MWO.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 04 March 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

On the other hand - why would it be a problem when Executioner and Banshee go berserk with just energy weapons while ACH and Adder have only the ability for a single attack run?

Balance, and the point of thes eemchs havign ANY use. because any other light at the 35t category will do whatever job they try, just better. it obsoletes these mechs. If a mehc exists in MOW he should have a point of being used. But being inferio isn't.

[Zephonarch II]

The solution is this, focus fire. Not heat-nerfing the game like the game once did a year ago. If you stand in one place long enough that a full Banshee-alpha of 50dmg can absolutely red-cored your Stormcrow's CT of 72armour points... IT'S YOUR FAULT.

You are not supposed to be a lone wolf and take on a Black Knight as a Firestarter/Arctic Cheetah without knowing the threat of their full-alpha that can fully rip you apart in one good shot. You realize that the Black Knight is someone you should watch out for as they are just over a hill for say. Get ready to fire first, surprise them... take their side-torso, deplete their alpha... deal... with... it.

And there you go, you have a game with good challenges in mind. Mechs have roles. Do people even realize how big the Banshee-CT is? It's meant to be a good support Assault. But after people exploit that weakness, most Assaults don't seem that scary anymore. Side-torsos have less armour than CT-armour, and it goes more for back armour... so Light mechs should make use of that.

Edited by Zephonarch II, 04 March 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 04 March 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

Balance, and the point of thes eemchs havign ANY use. because any other light at the 35t category will do whatever job they try, just better. it obsoletes these mechs. If a mehc exists in MOW he should have a point of being used. But being inferio isn't.

Well at the current content or the absence of something i can unterstand there is no point at all to run slow lights with big weapons.
For example the roll of the Adder hart hitting Mech to face Mediums - and are two Erppc a danger that could be compared with say just half the mass of er Medium Lasers?

No - and there is the mistake - given some dual ERPPC Clan Mechs each should cause creeps - and each should fire a different pattern at different prey

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 March 2016 - 01:36 AM.