82 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Sadly that Hill has an 89⁰ Slope and is liberally lathered with high grade grease. If memory serves, the first pass of R&R was only at a cost to the players of 25% of actual totals and it was still abused or simply ignored.

P.S. Allowing for a player to have an Elite/Mastered 3 Mech Set, with all the goodies, and NOT have to Pay the R&R tax is simple silly. If a poor Class exists, then the Rich should be exempt as well, as if they even care to start with. So once again the brunt of the cost and wasted time falls to the Middle Class...

This R&R proposal is way to much like "Real Life" for me personally. LOL

[Mazzyplz]

my idea is this:
make a SOLO ONLY "ranked mode" like in world of warships (pretty much exactly like in world of warships) which will make your match count toward PSR (if you dont choose ranked match your match won't count toward PSR and you can play your clown builds) and when you play ranked psr matches you will be placed on the tiers and you have to pay repair and rearm in this mode. to play the following match

and if you did badly you could end up in negative numbers and have to pug no ranked to make money to pay repairs and play more ranked matches

Edited by Mazzyplz, 22 October 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Praetor Knight, on 22 October 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

We need relevant game modes to incorporate R&R.

If we can see a Campaign mode, have CW expand further then yes!



It seems that is partly why C-Bill earnings are currently rather low compared to the past. To simulate R&R without having the gory details.

No... cbill earnings were reduced so that casual but reasonably well off players would struggle to acquire new mechs and thus be inclined to buy them with MC. There is absolutely no other reason.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 22 October 2015 - 08:20 AM.

[Davers]

So, if I am in an IS medium mech, and I get one shot from behind through a rear side torso. Now I have to wait about 30 seconds before I can use the mech again.

I am really not seeing any immersion or value here. What am I gaining as a player from this?

[CDLord HHGD]

0bsidion, on 22 October 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

but R&R wouldn't really serve a purpose as anything other than an artificial c-bill sinkhole and a pointless source of frustration for players. Sorry but I gotta vote no on this.

Did you even read my OP?

Davers, on 22 October 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

So, if I am in an IS medium mech, and I get one shot from behind through a rear side torso. Now I have to wait about 30 seconds before I can use the mech again.

I am really not seeing any immersion or value here. What am I gaining as a player from this?

It kinda depends on how much damage is done to you and the amount of time is open for discussion. The whole point of R&R is immersion and to some extent encourage situational awareness.

I would like to note that the timer starts as soon as the match ends so for a 30 second repair time, you'll spend most of that coming out of the match as the UI loads.

[Davers]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

It kinda depends on how much damage is done to you and the amount of time is open for discussion. The whole point of R&R is immersion and to some extent encourage situational awareness.

I would like to note that the timer starts as soon as the match ends so for a 30 second repair time, you'll spend most of that coming out of the match as the UI loads.

I prefer my immersion to happen in game, not between games.

[CDLord HHGD]

Davers, on 22 October 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

I prefer my immersion to happen in game, not between games.

Technically the front is IS part of the game.

[0bsidion]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Did you even read my OP?

Sure, but my statement still stands. The way the game is currently structured this wouldn't be immersive, it would, however, be potentially frustrating. So if the objective is purely to annoy people then I'm sure this would fit the bill nicely. Maybe if PGI ever got a wild hair and introduced a single player campaign, something like this would make more sense in that context.

As it stands, whether the cost is in time delays or cbills or magical gold coins from leprechauns, all you're doing is introducing a barrier between people and the mechs they paid for to use. I guarantee you the rabid hordes would be out with torches and pitchforks the first time players weren't allowed to use their special favorite mech because 'reasons'.

Why do you think such dramatic upgrades like ES or FF or DHS are instantaneous? Because when real money is involved most people don't want their time wasted.

[Almond Brown]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Did you even read my OP?

stuff

The whole point of R&R is immersion and to some extent encourage situational awareness.

I would like to note that the timer starts as soon as the match ends so for a 30 second repair time, you'll spend most of that coming out of the match as the UI loads.

So no real "immersion" at all if the player never actually sees the R&R activity that takes place because it all happens while they are exiting the current Match? Hmmmm....

[CDLord HHGD]

Look, since this has no bearing on the actual game play, how about making it an option like cockpit glass? Some of you just want to log in and rampage, I'd like a little more immersion into the Battletech universe.... We could all have our cakes and eat it too.

[Skarlock]

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

It kinda depends on how much damage is done to you and the amount of time is open for discussion. The whole point of R&R is immersion and to some extent encourage situational awareness.

I would like to note that the timer starts as soon as the match ends so for a 30 second repair time, you'll spend most of that coming out of the match as the UI loads.

I don't think you actually read what he asked. His question was "I am really not seeing any immersion or value here. What am I gaining as a player from this?"

So please, answer the question. How does this improve the game. Legitimate answer mode : Don't say immersion. There's nothing immersive about fighting a great battle, tanking down to 10%, getting the killing blow on the second to last enemy, dying, and then being rewarded for your heroic effort by the game telling you that you can't pilot your favorite mech, you have to wait because no reason. I'm pretty sure you don't want to drown MWO players nor do you want to teach them a foreign language, so perhaps you want to mentally challenge players to simply run away and power down instead of actually taking a risk that might have their mech destroyed and denied to them, frustrating everybody actually playing the game and satisfying nobody.

im·mer·sion

iˈmərZHən,iˈmərSHən/

• the action of immersing someone or something in a liquid.

"his back was still raw from immersion in the icy Atlantic Ocean"

• deep mental involvement.

"his immersion in Jewish culture"

• a method of teaching a foreign language by the exclusive use of that language, usually at a special school.

Edited by Skarlock, 22 October 2015 - 09:47 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Skarlock, on 22 October 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I don't think you actually read what he asked. His question was "I am really not seeing any immersion or value here. What am I gaining as a player from this?"

So please, answer the question. How does this improve the game. Legitimate answer mode : Don't say immersion. There's nothing immersive about fighting a great battle, tanking down to 10%, getting the killing blow on the second to last enemy, dying, and then being rewarded for your heroic effort by the game telling you that you can't pilot your favorite mech, you have to wait because no reason. I'm pretty sure you don't want to drown MWO players nor do you want to teach them a foreign language, so perhaps you want to mentally challenge players to simply run away and power down instead of actually taking a risk that might have their mech destroyed and denied to them, frustrating everybody actually playing the game and satisfying nobody.

im·mer·sion

iˈmərZHən,iˈmərSHən/

• the action of immersing someone or something in a liquid.

"his back was still raw from immersion in the icy Atlantic Ocean"

• deep mental involvement.

"his immersion in Jewish culture"

• a method of teaching a foreign language by the exclusive use of that language, usually at a special school.

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Look, since this has no bearing on the actual game play, how about making it an option like cockpit glass? Some of you just want to log in and rampage, I'd like a little more immersion into the Battletech universe.... We could all have our cakes and eat it too.

[Skarlock]

Still doesn't answer the question. Please answer the question.

[Elizander]

Time-based R&R is treading into mobile game territory where you are forced to wait minutes or hours between matches to use your mech again unless you pay MC or a large amount of c-bills to repair it to skip the wait.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

0bsidion, on 22 October 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

If this was a full fledged Battletech game with real salvage, real contracts, a real economy, and a real reason for R&R? Absolutely. But what we have is a shallow, Mechs for real money, robot shoot'em up without a whole heck of a lot else. Not that it isn't fun, but R&R wouldn't really serve a purpose as anything other than an artificial c-bill sinkhole and a pointless source of frustration for players. Sorry but I gotta vote no on this.

Did you read the OP? It's a time based system... which will encourage players to buy more mechs, and play more different mechs.

It's not a C-bill sink unless you want your mech freed up RIGHT NOW. THEN you could pay c-bills.

[Fate 6]

The only part of R&R that I don't like is that hero mechs have an innate resistance to the system. My Founder's Atlas was pretty easy to run regularly back in the day because of that cbill boost

[sycocys]

Fate 6, on 22 October 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

The only part of R&R that I don't like is that hero mechs have an innate resistance to the system. My Founder's Atlas was pretty easy to run regularly back in the day because of that cbill boost

Considering most of the hero's are sub-par, it's barely a perk for buying in.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

The additional c-bills from Hero/pack specific mechs definately does give an advantage to a player using them in a R&R system.

That being said, I still want SOMETHING to give me more flavor to this game, Repair/Rearm costs and downtime for mechs would work just fine for me in my opinion. And a limit on when that kicks on [or even an option to just turn on RnR as an option.] would be nice.

I think it should be forced on for gamemode's like CW... but CW needs to have it's own economy for that to work.

I'm a little shocked actually, that RnR wasn't included in CW... as it makes sense. CW should be a more logistics focused mode anyway. Because CW's begging for a more immersive experience.

The way I'd handle it:

CW starts, you pick 4 mechs as your base stable from your existing mechs you own. Those become {CW} variants while participating in CW. You also get a starting stipend based on your overall net worth in the base game at the start of the session [so it basically liquidates all the mechs from your faction {IS or Clan} you didn't choose from the pug mode, and gives you an amount of c-bills based on that liquidation to give a baseline starting level in CW.]

From here, you start your merc company, or ally with your house, and begin your career as a mechwarrior, taking contracts or orders from your house. This means lonewolves have the option of lonewolf v lonewolf contracts... or can be pulled in by optional contracts to help fill out ranks if desired [a toggle would make this easy, and get's people off the pugs getting stomped argument in CW]

As you fight, you rank up in your faction you're fighting for, which gives bonuses, and reduced costs for mechs [in cw mode] and repair/rearm.

Combined with the ability to grow your {CW} stable by buying House/Faction specific mechs... it gives a whole new feel to CW, and combines it with a second economy that doesn't impact the PUG mode for RnR costs and the like.

in this version of CW, while vet's to the game get a basic advantage, this also allows unit coffers to be used to post the repair/rearm costs for the unit, or it can be delt with on a singular player level. This also opens up AI based contracts that could be used as "pirate defense" contracts to help gain some money on the perphery to get your mechs back in running standing if you need to.

I mean this is just a rough, off the top of my head suggestion... but it would give CW much more agency and immersion than it currently has, it would give single players AKA Lonewolves a reason to play CW, AND it doesn't impact the pug gameplay so people can still easily go out and fight in puglandia all day, but when they want an immersive experience, they have access too it in the form of CW with it's own tracked stats and economy.

[CDLord HHGD]

Skarlock, on 22 October 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Still doesn't answer the question. Please answer the question.

Immersion whether you like it or not.

The instant and free repairs of my mech's battle damage reduces the feel that we are playing Mechwarrior/Battletech. This is a battletech game and these expenses, time to fix, logistics is a very big part of that feel.

cdlord, on 22 October 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Look, since this has no bearing on the actual game play, how about making it an option like cockpit glass? Some of you just want to log in and rampage, I'd like a little more immersion into the Battletech universe.... We could all have our cakes and eat it too.

If you don't want it, then you don't have to have it.

Edited by cdlord, 22 October 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Burktross]

Logistics is only immersive if we have campaigns. Otherwise I'm paying money to repair mechs in my simulator!

If we want immersion, headbob is the future