38 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Flash Frame, on 24 October 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

no... it's elitist bs. I can do just fine in mechs with low slung hardpoints.

It's tryhards, that refuse to adapt, and have to have the "Optimum" placement of everything that make this game a frustrating bag of garbage when I hear crap like this constantly.

No actually its the whiners that claim optimized mechs are exploiting game mechanics and people who don't think and get killled too quickly because of terrible positioning and decision making that are why this game is a frustrating bag of garbage.

Now that we got the dumb insults out of the way...

Low hardpoints don't completely break a mech, but they do give it some disadvantages. There is no adapting when a BLR can poke over cover and shoot you, but your low weapons can't shoot back without hitting the cover that they just shot over, which is an objective disadvantage and is an indisputable fact. Of course you can play the game such that you are not in that position and constantly working flanks and side peaking, but that doesn't change that you have objectively less capability. Seriously, a good player can wreck in any mech, its a matter of removing as many disadvantages as possible in a competitive situation, because you know your opponent will have done the same. Rational people working in their own self-interest will not intentionally hamper themselves with a disadvantage when an alternative option exists that would provide an even playing field.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 October 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

No actually its the whiners that claim optimized mechs are exploiting game mechanics and people who don't think and get killled too quickly because of terrible positioning and decision making that are why this game is a frustrating bag of garbage.

Now that we got the dumb insults out of the way...

Low hardpoints don't completely break a mech, but they do give it some disadvantages. There is no adapting when a BLR can poke over cover and shoot you, but your low weapons can't shoot back without hitting the cover that they just shot over, which is an objective disadvantage and is an indisputable fact. Of course you can play the game such that you are not in that position and constantly working flanks and side peaking, but that doesn't change that you have objectively less capability. Seriously, a good player can wreck in any mech, its a matter of removing as many disadvantages as possible in a competitive situation, because you know your opponent will have done the same. Rational people working in their own self-interest will not intentionally hamper themselves with a disadvantage when an alternative option exists that would provide an even playing field.

But there's nothing FUN to this mentality, especially not for me.

I know what works in this game, I've been here since the beginning, I've been playing Mechwarrior since MW2. I know what works in these games, and what doesn't... look at my profile and see how long I've been here. I've been in MWO since wave 2 of closed beta invites.

I've seen the fads come and go, I've seen the meta shift with every iteration, and I've seen the elitist's decide "what works."

And it's seriously, broken the game. I still gain fun out of this game for the most part... but you know what's not fun, 6 large laser stalkers because that's "what works" 4+spulse ACH's because "that's what works". Poptarting victors and highlanders because that's "what works."

It get's stale and boring. I'd much rather see an AS7-D walking through the battlefield firing off LRM's, AC, AND lasers... I'd much rather see Warhammer's with dual ppc's and lasers and SRM's. Jagermechs running dual ac5 dual ac2 and backup lasers. Catapults...

You know... BATTLETECH. But instead, all anyone can think about is "Must have my optimum everything ever! Must use high mounted hardpoints because it works, must boat lasers because IT WORKS."

Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should, and frankly, this entire mentality of "Do it because it works." has broken this game and mashed it's corpse into a hole while building a funhouse over it. It's lame, it's boring and it's frustrating to beat all hell when I've SEEN what a good match can be, I've SEEN how interesting this game can be when we're not focusing on "The Meta". It's bloody amazing. Missles and Lasers and Auto Cannons everywhere... mechs with roles and mechs that back up other mechs. I've seen fights that go on for the duration of a match not because the players suck, but because there's actual skill... instead of "Put laser on for full burntime enmasse till it pops."

So no, Optimized mechs have ALWAYS broken Battletech, it's why in a normal Battletech game, you have a gamemaster, that tells the OP mechbuilders to go shove off with their munchkin builds, munchkin building, isn't Battletech man.

[Gas Guzzler]

Flash Frame, on 24 October 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

But there's nothing FUN to this mentality, especially not for me.

I know what works in this game, I've been here since the beginning, I've been playing Mechwarrior since MW2. I know what works in these games, and what doesn't... look at my profile and see how long I've been here. I've been in MWO since wave 2 of closed beta invites.

I've seen the fads come and go, I've seen the meta shift with every iteration, and I've seen the elitist's decide "what works."

And it's seriously, broken the game. I still gain fun out of this game for the most part... but you know what's not fun, 6 large laser stalkers because that's "what works" 4+spulse ACH's because "that's what works". Poptarting victors and highlanders because that's "what works."

It get's stale and boring. I'd much rather see an AS7-D walking through the battlefield firing off LRM's, AC, AND lasers... I'd much rather see Warhammer's with dual ppc's and lasers and SRM's. Jagermechs running dual ac5 dual ac2 and backup lasers. Catapults...

You know... BATTLETECH. But instead, all anyone can think about is "Must have my optimum everything ever! Must use high mounted hardpoints because it works, must boat lasers because IT WORKS."

Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should, and frankly, this entire mentality of "Do it because it works." has broken this game and mashed it's corpse into a hole while building a funhouse over it. It's lame, it's boring and it's frustrating to beat all hell when I've SEEN what a good match can be, I've SEEN how interesting this game can be when we're not focusing on "The Meta". It's bloody amazing. Missles and Lasers and Auto Cannons everywhere... mechs with roles and mechs that back up other mechs. I've seen fights that go on for the duration of a match not because the players suck, but because there's actual skill... instead of "Put laser on for full burntime enmasse till it pops."

So no, Optimized mechs have ALWAYS broken Battletech, it's why in a normal Battletech game, you have a gamemaster, that tells the OP mechbuilders to go shove off with their munchkin builds, munchkin building, isn't Battletech man.

In the public queue it really doesn't matter whether or not you have an optimized build or a lore-compatible build unless you are in a high PSR level group. But solo queue... as long as you play to the strengths of your mech you can do whatever you want, so that is there for you. Because this game has a matchmaker it kind of allows people to play the game how they want. You don't have to worry about running into EmP/SJR/any other high level group, so naturally you don't care about optimizing mechs and mechs with high hardpoints and that's fine. At the same time, there is nothing wrong with the players who are competitive and want to get the most out of their mechs by building them appropriately. You play your game, we will play ours. There is nothing wrong with saying you aren't interested in a mech with low hardpoints... its someone's opinion. Are you trying to force him to buy it were it for sale or something?

[C E Dwyer]

No more Packs..

singles only..

[Gas Guzzler]

Cathy, on 24 October 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

No more Packs..

singles only..

I doubt it. I think PGI knows that the only reason singles work is for super popular mechs like the Warhammer and Marauder or other hyped unseens. If they started doing all singles, people would pass on buying a lot of the mechs in the packs.

[TheArisen]

Hey Gas, I know a couple mechs that'd get you excited.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dragon_Fire
75t, ecm, 360 max engine, mix of energy & ballistics, all high mounted.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nightstar
95t, great hardpoints, high mounted, 345 max engine (350 would be perfect.)

[Gas Guzzler]

TheArisen, on 24 October 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

Hey Gas, I know a couple mechs that'd get you excited.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dragon_Fire
75t, ecm, 360 max engine, mix of energy & ballistics, all high mounted.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nightstar
95t, great hardpoints, high mounted, 345 max engine (350 would be perfect.)

I don't think I am that crazy about high-mounted hardpoints, I love the Black Knight for instance (but its balls will be removed if it loses the modest quirks that it has). That being said, the Nightstar would be really cool. I could do without the Dragon Fire... and its out of timeline anyway.

[Luca M Pryde]

Ultimatum X, on 24 October 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

If we actually played that game non-stop, those of us doing it would end up being alcoholics.



Why don't things get fixed? Because there are players clamoring to pay money for more mechs, even bad ones, regardless of the state of the game.

The mech graphic designers / modelers are not programmers. Unless they are making a story based campaign I don't think it would make much of a difference as they probably need to hire more people.

The mech packs are what keep the game funded from my understanding. I only buy clan though. Just thought if they are going to create story elements they should have wolf's dragoon mechs.

[stealthraccoon]

You forgot to mention...

THE HORNET - HNT-161 - who wouldn't want a 20 ton that can fly!

Falcon - yes
Firefly - yes
Hoplite - yes
Imp - hellz yeah!

[C E Dwyer]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 October 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

I doubt it. I think PGI knows that the only reason singles work is for super popular mechs like the Warhammer and Marauder or other hyped unseens. If they started doing all singles, people would pass on buying a lot of the mechs in the packs.

I feel the opposite, I think people are tired of big packs, and having to wait for the last mech to get the early adopter toys, and camo, they could have just as easily launched Unseen as a four pack, but they chose single for a reason, people are going to buy more mechs because they will no longer be penalised for going ala carte.

[Gas Guzzler]

Cathy, on 24 October 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

I feel the opposite, I think people are tired of big packs, and having to wait for the last mech to get the early adopter toys, and camo, they could have just as easily launched Unseen as a four pack, but they chose single for a reason, people are going to buy more mechs because they will no longer be penalized for going ala carte.

I don't know... the up front reason for doing the singles was because they didn't want to go all in with a few unseens and have multiple lawsuits on their hands, which sounds like a reasonable explanation to me. Not to mention, the two that have been announced so far are are very popular mechs. I bought both. I am not sure that I would buy a Rifleman or Archer or Stinger or Wasp, unless they were part of a big pack that had some other mechs that I did want. You know what I mean?

[C E Dwyer]

Then we're at opposite ends

I was pissed at the camo arriving with mech four in R2 and how bad the black knight and wolfhound look, with the balance changes, and expecting the origins camo to arrive in mech four cancelled the Highlander IIC package.

I will never buy a package again under the terms P.G.I expect, which is basically, you can have all the extra bits but you won't get them until you have mastered all the mechs but one and they lay unused in your mech bays, while we hope that you break and give us extra cash and buy the camo.

I didn't cancel the Marauder or WarHammer because they are singles ,though it got close, and only decided to keep them because I saw the MAD 3D model on instagram .

I think all of them have their fans the MAD though the first is far from my favourite unseen, the longbow and the bigger Ost's being the only ones I won't snap up first day, though if the others maintain the same level as the Mad Model I dare say as long as I'm not penalised for refusing to buy big packs I will get them all.

[Pezzer]

Cathy, on 24 October 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

No more Packs..

singles only..

WHY? I don't understand WHY people want to get less content per dollar with the single mech packs. I prefer the larger packs because you get more goodies per tier, and more mechs per pack, for the same relative price. People are buying Marauders and Warhammers for the same price as a Light+Medium tier from the previous packs (that's DOUBLE the mechs).
It's bizarre and it makes 0 sense to me. I don't understand how you people can budget enough to afford these packs when you don't understand basic economical sense like this. The packs are a better savings, the single offerings are the kinds of cash grabs that you people yell at PGI for, then throw money at during the hype release...

I for one would be okay if they did these single packs every month, with 1 big pack per season (for a total of 4 big packs per year). This would be the best way to space things out.

With that being said, I'm done buying Mechs until something especially interesting is added (that isn't BS like the IIC pack, which is really hedging pay-to-win/power creep to new levels), like Hammerhands (an IS 75 tonner that gets 2 ballistic arm hardpoints) or some sort of new 60 tonner. Or maybe even new tech that is included stock with the new pack's launch...either way, the mech selection is great but at this point I have 5 of everything. Something new needs to be added to the game, something that will fix the balance and mix things up a bit at the same time.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Cathy, on 24 October 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

No more Packs..

singles only..

packs are a better value for your money though... so why would you want them to price gouge us with singles?

[Luca M Pryde]

Flash Frame, on 24 October 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

But there's nothing FUN to this mentality, especially not for me.

I know what works in this game, I've been here since the beginning, I've been playing Mechwarrior since MW2. I know what works in these games, and what doesn't... look at my profile and see how long I've been here. I've been in MWO since wave 2 of closed beta invites.

I've seen the fads come and go, I've seen the meta shift with every iteration, and I've seen the elitist's decide "what works."

And it's seriously, broken the game. I still gain fun out of this game for the most part... but you know what's not fun, 6 large laser stalkers because that's "what works" 4+spulse ACH's because "that's what works". Poptarting victors and highlanders because that's "what works."

It get's stale and boring. I'd much rather see an AS7-D walking through the battlefield firing off LRM's, AC, AND lasers... I'd much rather see Warhammer's with dual ppc's and lasers and SRM's. Jagermechs running dual ac5 dual ac2 and backup lasers. Catapults...

You know... BATTLETECH. But instead, all anyone can think about is "Must have my optimum everything ever! Must use high mounted hardpoints because it works, must boat lasers because IT WORKS."

Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you should, and frankly, this entire mentality of "Do it because it works." has broken this game and mashed it's corpse into a hole while building a funhouse over it. It's lame, it's boring and it's frustrating to beat all hell when I've SEEN what a good match can be, I've SEEN how interesting this game can be when we're not focusing on "The Meta". It's bloody amazing. Missles and Lasers and Auto Cannons everywhere... mechs with roles and mechs that back up other mechs. I've seen fights that go on for the duration of a match not because the players suck, but because there's actual skill... instead of "Put laser on for full burntime enmasse till it pops."

So no, Optimized mechs have ALWAYS broken Battletech, it's why in a normal Battletech game, you have a gamemaster, that tells the OP mechbuilders to go shove off with their munchkin builds, munchkin building, isn't Battletech man.

Min/maxing also ruined the battletech card game. That's why we add to enforce rules to use only 4 of one card. But we should of went further and enforced the amount of light, cheap mechs that could be brought out to play. Only way to make the game fun and actually make use of some of the cards that were printed.

[Ted Wayz]

TercieI, on 24 October 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Stop.

Asking.

For.

Mechs.

Sheesh.

Only.

Way.

PGI.

Makes.

Money.

Jeez.

[TercieI]

Ted Wayz, on 24 October 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

Only.

Way.

PGI.

Makes.

Money.

Jeez.

Their own fault. Other monetization options exist.

[Vellron2005]

This whole thread is fine and dandy.. But let me ask you all this..

What worth are all these "omg, squee squee its so op, IWOOT" mechs when you have NOWHERE TO PILOT THEM!?

We really need maps and CW fixed first, not more mechs..

So please.. stop asking for mechs. I know its hard.. but I believe you can do it.

Just try it for a few months..

[0bsidion]

Vellron2005, on 26 October 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

This whole thread is fine and dandy.. But let me ask you all this..

What worth are all these "omg, squee squee its so op, IWOOT" mechs when you have NOWHERE TO PILOT THEM!?

We really need maps and CW fixed first, not more mechs..

So please.. stop asking for mechs. I know its hard.. but I believe you can do it.

Just try it for a few months..

You realize the same people that make maps and work on CW don't work on mechs right? It's not like those things are mutually exclusive and everything else grinds to a halt and all they do is churn out mechs. It might seem that way, because those other things take way more time, but it isn't the case.