57 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

and immediately running and capping the base helps anyone how?

You win.
(woohoo!)
You barely play the game
You deny your teamamates the chance to play the game
You just spent more time LOOKING for match than playing in one
You screw everyone, yourself included out of a chance to win a grab bag
You screw everyone, yourself included, out of earnign any real cbills or xp (and of course this game is famous for it's lack of grind, so that cool, right?)

It's one thing to cap to win, after determining that is the only recourse (you know, after your team engages the enemy and it's going rather poorly), and something entirely different to do it in the first 2-3 minutes of the game when shots have barely been traded.

Folks need to stop being obtuse, when it's pretty obvious that is what is being referred to.

As for unchecking the game mode? Sorry, PGI has determined that those interested in the event need to get a matchscore of 250 or more 25x. Really hard to get that match score, or even have fun playing the game when little tossers are just running off to cap immediately.


So if you consider waiting 5+ plus minutes to get into a match, to have it capped out in under 2, with no combat, no rewards, no cbills and xp the right way to play the game, then sorry, we got issues.

Wait, what exactely is your point? Because I see two of them:

1.) People should value event-optimization over properly playing the game
2.) Base rushes are no fun


To the second, I can partially agree.
It's true that if one team rushes the base and pushes the bar down inside of 2 minutes without anything else happening, the game boils down to some stupid mech-driver animation.
On the other hand: Rushing the base is a way of flanking, breaking up enemy ranks, forcing them to play your game.
If the base really drops so fast, it just means the other team was really, really bad.

I've read comments ingame like "defend the base or die" and they were right:
You MUST be able to defend your base (e.g. know where the enemy is before you rush yourselves), otherwise the team just sucks and deserves to lose.

So all in all, base rushing is not so bad after all. It's a valid tactical move and it can be incredibly fun and thrilling for both sides if the defending team doesn't suck completely.
Maybe the turrets should come back, I didn't find them so bad.



As far as the first point is concearned: normal playing > greedy event-optimization.

Edited by Paigan, 29 October 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Paigan, on 29 October 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

Wait, what exactely is your point? Because I see two of them:

1.) People should value event-optimization over properly playing the game
2.) Base rushes are no fun


To the second, I can partially agree.
It's true that if one team rushes the base and pushes the bar down inside of 2 minutes without anything else happening, the game boils down to some stupid mech-driver animation.
On the other hand: Rushing the base is a way of flanking, breaking up enemy ranks, forcing them to play your game.
If the base really drops so fast, it just means the other team was really, really bad.

I've read comments ingame like "defend the base or die" and they were right:
You MUST be able to defend your base (e.g. know where the enemy is before you rush yourselves), otherwise the team just sucks and deserves to lose.

So all in all, base rushing is not so bad after all. It's a valid tactical move and it can be incredibly fun and thrilling for both sides if the defending team doesn't suck completely.
Maybe the turrets should come back, I didn't find them so bad.



As far as the first point is concearned: normal playing > greedy event-optimization.

then you either are choosing to ignore my point, or have poor reading comprehension.

As I listed multiple ways the prevalent attitude of insta-capping screws everyone, even when an event is not going on.

Guess what? Actually just play the matches as most people normally would? And about half the players qualify for the event anyhow. Crazy shocker thought.

But people on either side, just running and capping? Screws everyone, period. And It's been my dang team doing the capping most times, so I don't have the option of shooting them..... though I dang well have considered it.

[0bsidion]

Paigan, on 29 October 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

Wait, isn't it actually the other way around:

One wants to play the game, wants to win (see things like builds, strategies, tactics, team play, etc. work out well) but due to a combination of dumb event design AND dumb people, the matches get ruined?

I call it common sense to NOT ruin the matches for everyone just to optimize event qualifying.

I wouldn't call this event dumb. The event that required you get every single map to win anything when map distribution is entirely RNG based was dumb.

Making primary objectives the least rewarding activity though? At best that isn't exactly brilliant. No matter what map mode you pick the most rewarding activity is playing it like TDM for pretty much the entire time and maybe accomplishing the primary objectives at the end. And now playing everything like TDM is rewarded even more than usual, so how does it not make sense to play it like that exactly? Unless you don't like free extra stuff for some reason.

[Bishop Steiner]

0bsidion, on 29 October 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

I wouldn't call this event dumb. The event that required you get every single map to win anything when map distribution is entirely RNG based was dumb.

Making primary objectives the least rewarding activity though? At best that isn't exactly brilliant. No matter what map mode you pick the most rewarding activity is playing it like TDM for pretty much the entire time and maybe accomplishing the primary objectives at the end. And now playing everything like TDM is rewarded even more than usual, so how does it not make sense to play it like that exactly? Unless you don't like free extra stuff for some reason.

correct. If actually "playing assault" rewarded one for playing it thusly, it would be less an issue...except then almost anyone would play is assault, as it would be the fastest way to farm.

PGI needs to add "Lock" conditions to the base, since they failed so spectacularly with the Turrets (or more to the point, turrets actually did their job...possibly a skosh too well).

Bases are "Cap-Locked" first 3 (or 5 or whatever) minutes of the match.
Or until you are down 8+ teammates (dead or disco.... which btw, after so many minutes of zero activity, an AFK needs to just be disco'd/killed)

Possibly just lock the last 10-25% of the Cap Bar, so one could still hit it early for strategic reasons, but not just drain it and earn nothing (or earn too much if capping was to be rewarded better as a condition) but still makes it a strategic concern not to ignore it, as that mostly capped base could come back to bite you in the butt later.

Anyhow, just a rough idea, not a finished product. At least in Conquest, one has to work for it. The current Assault feature is weak and boring and unrewarding in every sense of the word.... and unless events require it, I do leave it unchecked for that very reason. I usually play conquest only, as it seems to breed overall the most (which still ain't saying much) mobile and tactical fights in the game, overall (since capping IS an ever present concern, but it takes work to do it).

Perhaps they could incentivize it further with random rewards modifiers for each cap taken, etc.

[Shazarad]

If they made some sort of reward for capturing equal to the amount of money or xp (or proportionally) to the enemy mechs surviving then it'd make sense to do base rushes or try to capture period.

If that was the case, then you'd still get the same rewards as if you brawled it out TDM style. Equal to the amount of mechs would probably be too much reward, but there could be a happy middle ground.

Also 250 score isn't hard to achieve really. But yeah, losing to a 2 minute base rush makes me feel like, oh you dang whipper snappers! Get off my lawn/base!

But I recognize it is a valid tactic, the game literally tells you to defend your base so you if you ignore it well, you should lose.

[Screech]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

Yeah most people who actually enjoy playing the game, have unchecked Assault long ago because of annoying little trolls hiding behind that reasoning.

Yep, folks following the game mode objectives are just trolls. Makes perfect sense when you are able to divorce yourself from reality. Or better yet just hang him in the town square.

#safespace

[Almond Brown]

It appears the OP is just MAD at his Teammates that do the Cap Rush thing under Assault. So, to preventany further Rant Posts on this subject, by him, if you find yourself on his Team and Assault Mode comes up, Please don't Rush the Undefended Enemy Cap, in an attempt to Win quickly, please allow him the time he needs to get his Slow, Fat Mech arse into the fight and get some damage done...

P.S. Sorry Bishop, couldn't resist.

Edited by Almond Brown, 29 October 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[1Grimbane]

OP .....whine whine whine...... enough whine to drunk off of. good grief

Edited by 1Grimbane, 29 October 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[AlphaToaster]

Rolewarfare right here folks. Defensemen is a position and role to play in assault mode.

Best played by a medium or light that can handle/delay a light or two on it's own, and still fast enough to reinforce his team in an emergency if the base is not being challenged.

Ignore the position and lose. It takes 1 or 2 players just actively watching for the base cap to stop it long enough to alert the rest of the team. The team then gets to make some additional tactical choices other than ball up and go here.

Makes new rules to prevent someone from capping a mans base, and he'll never learn to defend it. Game remains stale.

Teach a man to defend his base, and someone capping it becomes less of a problem. Game suddenly has several interesting things going on besides 1 fight in the predetermined location on every single map.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 29 October 2015 - 09:43 AM.

[Aresye]

Oh look, another, "If you aren't playing the game the way I think you should play the game, you're what's wrong with MWO," type posts from Bishop.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye Kerensky, on 29 October 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Oh look, another, "If you aren't playing the game the way I think you should play the game, you're what's wrong with MWO," type posts from Bishop.

oh look, Aresye making a pointless butthurt post. Cool story bro. Did I steal your girlfriend or something?

SMH

[Kodyn]

I agree totally, and have been saying this about Assault mode itself since it got changed, but....


Bish, you had to know this wasn't going to go anywhere, right? People are gonna do what they want to do, and you probably just caused a few more to intentionally troll you now when they see you in game, since they'll know it pisses you off.

I'd love it if they fixed the modes, or players were smart enough to try and get the most CBills/XP out of each, and make sure they qualify for events, etc, but I'm not expecting either change anytime soon.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kodyn, on 29 October 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

I agree totally, and have been saying this about Assault mode itself since it got changed, but....


Bish, you had to know this wasn't going to go anywhere, right? People are gonna do what they want to do, and you probably just caused a few more to intentionally troll you now when they see you in game, since they'll know it pisses you off.

I'd love it if they fixed the modes, or players were smart enough to try and get the most CBills/XP out of each, and make sure they qualify for events, etc, but I'm not expecting either change anytime soon.

eh, let's me know which lovely folk to add to my ignore list... Aresye just made it.

[Goose]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

Yeah most people who actually enjoy playing the game, have unchecked Assault long ago because of annoying little trolls hiding behind that reasoning.

So Much Fail: If this where true, the non-skimsh ques'd be 10x the wait.

Furthermore: If you don't like the mode, stay out of the mode. Maybe, if you ask nicely, you'll get forth game mode: Moar Skimish, where the sentries from Bad Assault are back, and have AC/20s …

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

This event sort of demands people play at least 25 matches.

Honor the Mode, or do without.

Here's an idea: Get in your Urbie.

[Mystere]

If you're going to drop in Assault, then in Hades' name learn to:

Defend Your Base

If you do so, you will still have the chance to earn your precious event points.

Edited by Mystere, 29 October 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 October 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

all you are doing is screwing pretty much EVERYONE out of chances at the grab bag.

They are doing this on purpose...

I see many trolls who are here to solely screw everyone out of their prize. Its a thing the butthurts do when events come around.


The funny thing is, Come monday there will be like 9 threads about " HOW LOW CBILLS EARNING ARE" and the "THE GREAT DEPRESSION OF THE PAULCONOMY" hurts too much....

Learn how to play the game in a way that generates cbills and quit being so terrabad....base cap is a unskilled warriors way of winning. But like other have said, all 24 pilots pretty much lost when one team base caps. 41,000 cbills was my avg on base cap weather my team won or the other side did. Didn't matter....i made 40,000 in every match this happened in.


I bet the enemy team made LESS because they didnt fight us at all....

Edited by DarthRevis, 29 October 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Aresye]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

oh look, Aresye making a pointless butthurt post. Cool story bro. Did I steal your girlfriend or something?

SMH

I simply advocate for team based gameplay in a team based game. If a team is so bad that the other team can coordinate a base cap in the first few minutes and win the game, good on them, because at least one team is working together. Game needs more stuff like that going on. Perhaps after 20 non-qualifying matches because they keep getting capped, some players will actually get a clue.

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

eh, let's me know which lovely folk to add to my ignore list... Aresye just made it.

No matter. You'll still see me in quotes from other players because not everybody blindly agrees with every opinion you have. I guess eventually you could ignore everybody that disagrees with you, so then you'll finally have nothing but topics where everyone agrees with you.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye Kerensky, on 29 October 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

I simply advocate for team based gameplay in a team based game. If a team is so bad that the other team can coordinate a base cap in the first few minutes and win the game, good on them, because at least one team is working together. Game needs more stuff like that going on. Perhaps after 20 non-qualifying matches because they keep getting capped, some players will actually get a clue.



No matter. You'll still see me in quotes from other players because not everybody blindly agrees with every opinion you have. I guess eventually you could ignore everybody that disagrees with you, so then you'll finally have nothing but topics where everyone agrees with you.

nope, just the ones being dbags about disagreeing

If your post had 1 iota of constructiveness, I could have cared less. Instead, you decided to make it an attack, because I Dared to point out an issue..in a way you don't approve. Assault is broken and limp, Deal with it .

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 October 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[Aresye]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 October 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

nope, just the ones being dbags about disagreeing

If your post had 1 iota of constructiveness, I could have cared less. Instead, you decided to make it an attack, because I Dared to point out an issue..in a way you don't approve. Assault is broken and limp, Deal with it Leetboy.

People capturing the base on assault is an "issue?"

Maybe instead of telling the players, "Stop playing the mode the way it was designed!" you could have started a topic asking for PGI to increase the match score value of winning via the primary objective?

It's a flaw in the way these game modes are designed that is PGI's responsibility to fix, not the players to work around, turning every game to skirmish in the process. If completing the primary objective for a game mode is not netting the scores required to qualify for their event, then PGI needs to fix their scoring for these modes and/or adjust the criteria of the event for these game modes.

Personally you know what would make this event more interesting? Make the primary objective a secondary way to qualify for Assault and Conquest. Then people can qualify either on match score or completing the primary objective. Boom! Problem solved.

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 October 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

it should be common sense.... but these days, common sense isn't.


everyone is auto entered. It's kind of dumb not to try for them.

Doesn't common sense dictate that the easiest way to win Assault AND win points for the game, the teams need to defend their base?

Hmm...?