29 replies to this topic

[Kurvi]

I am by no means consider myself even a mediocre player yet, but I used to think I was steadily improving. My match scores were finally breaking 300 semi-semi-regularly, and I even got 4 kills in one match while getting my latest Firestarter to basic.

Then last night happened...

All of a sudden I can barely get a single solid hit, and every game a join was either a crushing defeat or was completely carried by my teammates (though watching them play after I died was really instructive).

I believe the reason for this is the Trick-or-Treat event. Obviously everyone is pulling out their best builds for the event (notice how the percentage of light mechs went back down to pre "ACH for c-bills" level), but more importantly (I think), everyone who normally plays in the highly competitive group queue is suddenly joining the PUG queue looking for easy pickings.

...The end effect was downright brutal.

----

One thing to take away from this is that if I am correct, then the tier system is truly completely broken, and the only reason it worksat all in it's current form is because the good players all spend most of their time in the group queue when they are really trying hard to win. This in turn means that any plan to merge the two queues (e.g. by allowing a max of one 4-man group on each side) really requires having a non-broken tier system in place or the influx of all the better players will just crush the newbies.

Like the title says, it was a depressing evening.

[Koniving]

I will be perfectly honest, anymore during "events" I sit out of the game. The "competitive" crowd comes out in full force and any resemblance of 'fun' is quickly lost for me. I don't really play all that "seriously" and events force me to play that way; the fun builds and variety suddenly gets lost for pure meta min/maxing and as you said... it gets depressing.

That said: Currently MWO has two queues. Solo Only, and Group. 2 players in a group? Straight to group queue. Anything from 2 to 10 and 12 players -- to the group. 11 players can't play as a group. If you were playing outside of a group, you're experiencing only random players.

At the worst case, you may see players who know each other try to "Sync drop" in the solo queue... but in recent attempts to do that me and my friend usually end up on opposite sides.

If I may help... since you're using Firestarters, follow the 2 rear all else front rule for armor, and cut the head armor to whatever it takes to get an even ton or half ton free. Make sure all else is maxed out. You'll now tank like a 50 ton medium mech. Now focus your attacks on things that other people are attacking, and remember that you can leap behind enemies as well. Join your team in vulturing lone, slower players (and if you see an opportunity call it out in text or voice with the grid square and target letter). On any enemy unless torsos are weak, go immediately for a leg, then get behind and shoot the rear pelvis or rear side torso (whichever is easiest).

This will significantly improve your experience in higher competitive environments. If you happen to have the Firestarter hero mech, or the Firestarter with ballistics, the MGs will work wonders when supplemented with ~Any~ pulse lasers (I tend to prefer a pair of smalls and an MPL).

Cheer up, you can take this opportunity to really frustrate some enemies!

[Koniving]

Also I found this: It may be useful to you. Tactics 101 Comics
Blue is "Do" and Red is "Do not."

[jss78]

I think it's just the event. That 250-point match score requirement is quite high for most people. So you have even those people who typically run more fun and diverse builds roll out their cookie-cutter meta-mechs.

It was the same during the Territorial Challenge event, the gameplay just becomes more selfish and the mech loadouts a lot less diverse and fun. I wish they'd either stop running these events on the solo queue, or come up with an event structure that doesn't urge such boring play.

Nothing against events in general, or against the competitive crowd, but IMO competitive events and the solo queue aren't the best match.

Edited by jss78, 29 October 2015 - 05:26 AM.

[Kurvi]

Thanks for the link and suggestions. I really love that comic, and I will try the armor and MG ideas the next time I play.

FWIW, I think I'm doing all the right things (flanking/escort, etc). It's just that everything seems to be hitting back so much harder. I may try again tonight. Maybe all these stomps will cause the better players to go up a few tiers and return the playing field to what it was before the event.

[Ustarish]

we need stats for friendly fire received.
and tk should disqualify that game for greedy tk'er.

changing back to events that require opt-in [with separate que for event matches] would also be nice.

[Rogue Jedi]

my few games since the start of this event have been in a Stormcrow or Thunderbolt 5SS, both mounting 6+ MPL.
The reason for this is that I can consistently get a score of 250+ in those where as my usual favourites Spider and Griffin as well as leveling up my (many) Mechs which have not yet completed elite, because while I rairly fail to get 150 points I only have a few which can consistently hit that 250
I suspect it is the same for other players.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 29 October 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Xbwalker]

If I may offer a counter argument here. This event has also forced me to step up my game. I am finding that I have been trying much harder in every match to follow the basic rules like torso twisting and not putting myself in a position to get popped solo.

Now that I have a goal to reach in each match, I am playing more careful and smarter. I have been rolling in my Raven 4X with dual LgPlse and getting good results. The key with the raven and FS9 (which I consider a brother in arms) is to wait until the group is fully commited. Once the fighting is thick, contribute damage as much as possible but at a slight angle from the rest of the group. If you are sitting in the center line with your teammates firing back, the enemy is already staring at you. Stick with the flanks of your team and you will die much slower.

The moment you are spotted, reposition and fire while you move to the new position. Every bit counts as an assist and damage toward your score.

[Bud Crue]

I am still trying to elite Wolverines, Crabs and Zeus. Haven't even started on Wolfhounds.
I don't get to play enough as it is, so I am not about to stop leveling just to take my "meta" builds for an increased chance at 5 mc or 500 GXP, or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I am still getting matches over the 250 (200 CW) threshold and I am loving the grab bag aspect of this event. I'm just saying: play for fun and don't let the event dictate your play.

Its a game, enjoy and be happy PGI gives these opportunities.

[Morggo]

Ahhhh, well that explains it. Last night, logged on for my nightly drops.. and like the OP saw all my progress evaporate and my scores and performance drop like a lead brick.

This is my first event, didn't realize the dynamics that happen so good to know. That said, I too am going to use it as a learning experience and just keep trying... one of my last matches popped the 250 score marker so now I'm confident I *can*... see you all in game.

[el piromaniaco]

I agree with both last post.

Trying to reach a goal leads to more "aware" playing by me, and it's also just something nice to have if having fun means getting something for free just because you played a game.

And btw. i am just leveling my BlackKnights even further, now that all wolfhounds and crabs are "elite". Nothing i wouldn't do without the contest.

Greeting

el piro

Edited by el piromaniaco, 29 October 2015 - 09:10 AM.

[jss78]

Rogue Jedi, on 29 October 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

my few games since the start of this event have been in a Stormcrow or Thunderbolt 5SS, both mounting 6+ MPL.
The reason for this is that I can consistently get a score of 250+ in those where as my usual favourites Spider and Griffin as well as leveling up my (many) Mechs which have not yet completed elite, because while I rairly fail to get 150 points I only have a few which can consistently hit that 250
I suspect it is the same for other players.

Yeah, I'm a bit guilty of this myself. I don't have any full-meta mechs, but I find myself sooner running a 3xERLL Shadow Hawk than a more lore-correct (and more fun) mixed build, during these events. However much you'd like to ignore the event, it's just a harsh environment for non-meta mediums during the events, when about 8/12 mechs you face are meta 70+ tonners.

I think the core of the problem is just the match score formula, which is essentially a linear function of damage (there are other factors in it, but they are quite insignificant). This gives a very strong incentive to run as heavy builds as possible.

Xbwalker, on 29 October 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

If I may offer a counter argument here. This event has also forced me to step up my game. I am finding that I have been trying much harder in every match to follow the basic rules like torso twisting and not putting myself in a position to get popped solo.

Now that I have a goal to reach in each match, I am playing more careful and smarter. I have been rolling in my Raven 4X with dual LgPlse and getting good results. The key with the raven and FS9 (which I consider a brother in arms) is to wait until the group is fully commited. Once the fighting is thick, contribute damage as much as possible but at a slight angle from the rest of the group. If you are sitting in the center line with your teammates firing back, the enemy is already staring at you. Stick with the flanks of your team and you will die much slower.

The moment you are spotted, reposition and fire while you move to the new position. Every bit counts as an assist and damage toward your score.

This is actually an approach that's also been working for me. I've been mastering my WLF-2 during the event, as a kind of a mobile second-line or flanking mech. Play careful, but relocate and adapt to the combat situation as it develops, and keep dishing out damage over the long haul -- produces those 250-pointers quite often.

[Sardunos]

Xbwalker, on 29 October 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

If I may offer a counter argument here. This event has also forced me to step up my game. I am finding that I have been trying much harder in every match to follow the basic rules like torso twisting and not putting myself in a position to get popped solo.

Now that I have a goal to reach in each match, I am playing more careful and smarter. I have been rolling in my Raven 4X with dual LgPlse and getting good results. The key with the raven and FS9 (which I consider a brother in arms) is to wait until the group is fully commited. Once the fighting is thick, contribute damage as much as possible but at a slight angle from the rest of the group. If you are sitting in the center line with your teammates firing back, the enemy is already staring at you. Stick with the flanks of your team and you will die much slower.

The moment you are spotted, reposition and fire while you move to the new position. Every bit counts as an assist and damage toward your score.

This is some great advice and also how I feel. As soon as I entered matches last night I noticed people were playing better and more cautiously. More fights were happening at range instead of groups just trying to blow through the enemy lines. All-in-all I felt it made for better games, even though there were a few where my group was completely stomped.

So far I'm really enjoying this event.

[Raubwurst]

Event keeps going, but the requirements where lowered:


I'd think you will still see a higher degree of competetivness in the matches, but there will be less depressing

[LiGhtningFF13]

Raubwurst, on 29 October 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

Event keeps going, but the requirements where lowered:


I'd think you will still see a higher degree of competetivness in the matches, but there will be less depressing

Well, thanks for the info dude!

[JigglyMoobs]

Couple of things to remember as a light when assaults go all try hard:

1. Heavies and assaults can hurt you bad when you are running on open ground or peaking if they can aim. Last night I surprised more than one arctic cheetah with ppc gauss alphas as they were running and jj around.

2. As a light your role is to pick on the hurt and the stragglers. Unless there are lights you have to fight don't go near mai enemy group early. Watch and report like a mall cop. Then when you see the armor stripped off or people with their back turned, now is your turn to pounce.

That king crab with the orange torso that managed to just get away? That's now your job as the team retriever to go get him.

The lrm boat who thinks he's safe firing from way put back: think of him as a light snack.

Of course there are lights on the enemy team as well, but now remember that hopefully the heavy mechs on your team can actually aim. So, when you have competent heavy and assault pilots on your team, try to fight the other lights near them and then try to train the enemy light across the firing arc of your heavier teammates. This way, your heavies can take a couple of shots at them without turning away from fighting the main enemy team. If they are well aimed shots, the enemy light is now crippled and running, making him easy pickings for you.

Tl DR:

1. Heavy mechs with good aim are actually very Scarry for lights. Don't underestimate them.
2. Kill the injured and the stragglers.
3. Don't waste your life fighting enemy lights out in the middle of no where. Fight them bear your teammates, who will damage them to the point you can finish them off.

I've seen good lights easily 500 dmg this way game after game in the firestarter.

[Xbwalker]

JigglyMoobs, on 29 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Couple of things to remember as a light when assaults go all try hard:

1. Heavies and assaults can hurt you bad when you are running on open ground or peaking if they can aim. Last night I surprised more than one arctic cheetah with ppc gauss alphas as they were running and jj around.

2. As a light your role is to pick on the hurt and the stragglers. Unless there are lights you have to fight don't go near mai enemy group early. Watch and report like a mall cop. Then when you see the armor stripped off or people with their back turned, now is your turn to pounce.

That king crab with the orange torso that managed to just get away? That's now your job as the team retriever to go get him.

The lrm boat who thinks he's safe firing from way put back: think of him as a light snack.

Of course there are lights on the enemy team as well, but now remember that hopefully the heavy mechs on your team can actually aim. So, when you have competent heavy and assault pilots on your team, try to fight the other lights near them and then try to train the enemy light across the firing arc of your heavier teammates. This way, your heavies can take a couple of shots at them without turning away from fighting the main enemy team. If they are well aimed shots, the enemy light is now crippled and running, making him easy pickings for you.

Tl DR:

1. Heavy mechs with good aim are actually very Scarry for lights. Don't underestimate them.
2. Kill the injured and the stragglers.
3. Don't waste your life fighting enemy lights out in the middle of no where. Fight them bear your teammates, who will damage them to the point you can finish them off.

I've seen good lights easily 500 dmg this way game after game in the firestarter.

Yes, decent heavy pilots can mean death for a light pilot. It's best to not get their attention. At least not their undivided attention.

If they are fighting and you can hit them at a different angle, great! Just wait a while if they turn to see who is shooting them in the pooper. If you keep pouring fire into them, they will face you....and kill you.

On the flipside, getting them to turn their back to your team is also good.

Here is the HARDEST lesson I have had to learn as a light pilot. "It's not about kills or damage. It's about being disruptive." Once I finally got over the "get lots of damage" mentality, my damage per match went up. No longer do I sit still and try to pour as much fire into an enemy as I can before they kill me. Now I run around firing like a madman, disrupting their team, and allowing my team to take advantage of the confusion. My damage comes from helping take out the last 4 or so mechs when the spent enemy team realized their mistake too late.

Everyone wins.

[Repasy Cooper]

Well, I like to see it as more of a challenge. I am by no means a part of the competitive leagues, but I like to think I stand toe-to-toe with them.

[Leone]

I admit, there are some Battlemechs that sit in my mechbay all covered up waiting events. Then something point based comes along and 'whoosh' off come the covers and out comes my BNC-3E and other viciousness like the HBK-4J. Normally I play around in solo queue to see if my chassis can earn the right to buy double heat sinks, or skill up said single heat sink builds on their way towards greatness.

But yes, when the point based events come out, I play quick, dirty and vicious. It is the way these things are built.

~Leone.

[Kurvi]

Tried again last night and things were much better. I'm not sure if the reduction in the requirements for the rewards meant the better players weren't trying as hard, or if the new armor comfiguration (only 2 in the back) is so much better, but I ended up having an average match score of 222 for the night, with 20% of my matches getting over 300. Managed to elite my firestarter too, so hopefully things will get even better in the future.