15 replies to this topic

[Karone]

Ive always wondered which mech was truely "better".

Although the Atlas can move faster, and torso twist farther than the Dire, The Clan 100 tonner can carry much more weapons, and can boat up to 4 of the largest ballistic weapons available to us Mechwarriors.


So which one is the more effective mech?

[Leone]

Depends, what's the load outs and the engagement range? Lotta cover, or fairly open? Do they bring friends or are they 1v1ing it? More effective at what?

I've a great knife fighting Daishi that would get torn to shreds by an Lrm atlas, which is, usually considered a horrible build. If you want ecm, there's no choice, go Atlas DDC, but, if you wanna be able to jump, it's the Daishi, hands down.

Better is subjective.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 03 November 2015 - 03:07 PM.

[Fiona Marshe Pureborn]

Atlas is your 'offensive' mech.
Dire Wolf your 'defensive' mech.

Both have their place. You need to ask yourself what role you want to play.

[Rogue Jedi]

In my experience The Dire Wolf needs teamwork to work well because of the extremely limited agility, but the Atlas with a larger engine is far more manoeuvrable so has a chance if something gets behind it.

I mostly pilot Light Mechs, a lone Dire Wolf is an easy kill but a lone Atlas with a good pilot can be a challenge

edit:
the Atlas is far more durable and can be much more agile as well as significantly faster,
in my experience the Dire Wolf is the king of fire support platforms,
the Atlas works best up close, and will kill a Dire at close range,
where the Dire really shines is if it has good sight lines and can pick of a Mech at long range, however it needs protection because if any Mech gets close with a competent pilot the Dire is in serious trouble,
the Atlas is the opposite, it is a close in brawler and damage sponge, few Mechs can out-brawl a well piloted Atlas 1v1

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 02 November 2015 - 02:04 AM.

[Kmieciu]

1vs1 an Atlas brawler has a chance against a Direwolf, if it catches it at close range (<200 meters). At longer range, there is simply no comparison. 2xGauss+2xLPL+4xERML is simply an overkill. Don't trade with it.

[Nazar24]

Dire, no contest.
The lack of range is the biggest handicap for the atlas.

[Archie4Strings]

i honestly dont see any chance for the atlas if both pilots have the same skill.
Even though the atlas is better to manoeuver, it is still really slow and by far not fast enough to seriously try to dodge any attack of the direwolf. And the loadout of the direwolf is just to much for any mech except a really fast one, and by that, we are talking about light mechs with a speed of 120+ mph.
Also the direwolf can fight very well on any given range, doesnt matter if close or long distance.
So if you consider same skill level of the pilots and both mechs with a loadout focussed on the same tactic (brawl or long distance), the direwolf will always win. The damage is just to high.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Any decent pilot will win 1v1 with an atlas vs as dwf at CQB, Archie you really couldnt be further from the truth. We've tested it to the ground. the Atlas will always be the best assault brawler out there and you will never want any other mech to lead the push. If that atlas gets close and the players are of equal skill, the DWF is ******. It cannot maintain the ROF that the atlas can, especially if its dual guass, if its UAC's then its gunna jam way before its dont enough to kill it.

Antares Scorpions are known in the (EU) comp scene as possibly the best brawling team - We do not measure an atlas on how much damage it does, but how long it survives and the % of health is has when it goes down.
Everyone tries to compare the DWF and the Atlas but thats like comparing a FS9-A with a RVN-2X - They are 2 completely different mechs with two completely different roles and are uncompareable apart from the same tonnage.

[Roadbuster]

It's sad for the Atlas, but Nazar and Archie are right.

Atlas only wins in terms of maneuverability, but the difference is very small.
Dire got alot more hardpoints and thus, higher potential alphas.
And on top of it all, IS weapons have shorter effective range than Clan weapons.

Only chance for Atlas to beat a Dire is to spread damage over arms and torsos (do the twist!) and only face the Dire to alpha strike. That is, if you can get close enough to start dealing real damage.
It can also be a good idea to go for Dire ST instead of CT, as it usually halves its dmg output.


But everything aside, imho Atlas needs some Armor quirks.
Most mechs run around wielding 40-60dmg pinpoint alphas (even light mechs!) which, even with alot of torso twisting, is just too much to tank for long.


EDIT:
@ Arnold
You are right that Atlas will have an easier time against Dire at CQB, but the reality is that in most cases you won't be able to get that close fast enough without taking damage.
Of course Atlas is great to lead a push. There is not much else it can do. Move in, tank, get close and deal as much dmg as possible before going down.
Dire has more dmg potiential and is more effective in the 2nd row, killing things while the enemy is busy shooting the first line.

Edited by Roadbuster, 02 November 2015 - 02:02 AM.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Exactly, both different roles, as you said DWF isnt a traditional assault mech in the sense it goes in first but a 2nd line face wrecker.

[Kmieciu]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 02 November 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

Any decent pilot will win 1v1 with an atlas vs as dwf at CQB,

An Atlas brawler has a chance against a long range Dire build at CQB. Because AC10+4xSRM6 is porbably the best build for an Atlas. But how come nobody ever compares it against a Direwolf with 12 C-SPL and 3xUAC5? 12xSPL hit almost as hard as 4xAC20, while UAC5s deliver some cool DPS and screenshake.

[Elizander]

The Direwolf is more effective because it can kick your ass at any range and run cool in the process.

The Atlas can tank better but it can only really match the Direwolf firepower at close-range, otherwise you're dealing the same damage as any other IS Heavy (Gauss + 3 LL) and be 1) a larger target and 2) be slower in the peek and shoot game. While the Atlas-S can bring crazy firepower like 91 point alphas it requires 1) the use of SRMs which spread, 2) Coolshots and a lot of heat management because it doesn't have enough cooldown quirks and 3) not-really alpha striking because IS SRM Ghost heat is at 3 and not 4 (I fire 3 then fire the last SRM6 later on).

I haven't tried to see if a Boar's Head with 400XL can peek and shoot effectively with Gauss + 3 LL as I don't have one, but even on a 360 XL Atlas or a 350 std it's still hellishly slow.

A Direwolf doesn't need to peak and shoot. Your enemy will be forced to get the hell away from your front firing arc or die. It's that simple.

[InspectorG]

Dragoth2594, on 01 November 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

So which one is the more effective mech?

Direwolf, if you have the positioning skills.

Dire brings the most firepower which is the main goal in MWO. it set up a firing line good for about 500+m and anyone who steps in it takes 75-85 to the chest.

Atlas needs crackerjack timing to work well and newbs will find themselves lagging behind trying to get into SRM range ony to be chewed up alive by a Arctic Cheetah.

Then newbs resort to LRM Atlas...which is all kinds of Bad.

just get the Dire and brutalize enemies. Just dont lag behind.

[Spetulhu]

Wouldn't the comparison depend on the teams too? A DWF left behind without an escort is in trouble, an Atlas pushing in without others following is equally borked. You could be the best pilot in either of them but alone you're still nothing but a big walking target for enemy strikers.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Direwolf is currently the only mech not capable of daytona races. (48/53 is killing the mech) its more like stationary fortress. Atlas "was" king of the battlefield, but is fragile, and his RT is weakly covered. you loose it, you are pretty much walking bodybag. ...... I personaly would suggest Maulers. - same speed as atlases, gazilion of builds. fun to play, and efective.

[Khobai]

direwolf > atlas

if a direwolf ever loses to an atlas 1v1 they did it wrong


even half a direwolf, missing a side torso, has more firepower than an Atlas. the Atlas has clown hardpoints that nobody takes seriously except maybe on level ground AND under 270m. On any kindve inclined terrain the Atlas blows because its main damaging weapons are torso mounted. The direwolf can just use inclines to prevent the Atlas from firing half its weapons while it pulverizes the Atlas with its massive amount of arm weapons. Besides the Atlas is so slow, if you let an Atlas get within 270m of you on level ground youre just a bad player period.

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2015 - 09:13 PM.