36 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

It's still a pretty fun game for me and I'd play it more if my internet wasn't being crap right now and not letting me log in 75% of the day.

Like the rest though, I would love to be able to take out my Pretty Baby or use an AC/10 or PPC without feeling like a complete idiot for not bringing Gauss + Lasers instead.

[Tangelis]

PGI will likely never disclose the details concerning their split from IGP for both professional reasons and likely several NDA's. Though it is no coincidence to me that MWO's development increased considerably since IGP was dropped.

I know a lot of people harp on PGI and for some things with good reason, but the debacle this game endured during IGP's connection to it doesn't require a lot of connecting the dots in regards to where it is vs where it should be by now. Of course it's just a drawn conclusion....but comparing the before and after, IGP was more than likely a larger roadblock than we will ever know for various reasons.

In regards to IGP itself. I have no idea where this 22 million debt figure comes from, though IGP did file proceedings for bankruptcy under their former CEO. PGI got the rights to MW:O (not sure if that was part of their bankruptcy or not, might have been just before) but they did sell the rights to MW:Tactics as part of those proceedings to AFAIK an unnamed developer.

I don't know if the company actually absolved it's debts through bankruptcy, or was bought out or merely recovered or not. But it is under new management since PGI's business with them, and they still exist as a game developer.

Edited by Tangelis, 02 November 2015 - 03:50 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Kira Onime, on 02 November 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

Depends on your definition of "complain".
I've seen communities label any sort of dislike and expressing it as "complaining".

Balance is always a moving target so.....

[Auren Rhysode]

Mister Blastman, on 02 November 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

I will repeat my question as it is being ignored... "22 Million, says who?"

Where is your proof? What is your data? I'm not attacking you, OP, I just want you to back up your first post with facts to help your case.

I re-checked my source, and it turns out the amount was actually 24 million. Unfortunately they didn't cite any sources, so it seems I'll have to ferret them out myself. Sorry.

[Kira Onime]

GRiPSViGiL, on 02 November 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Balance is always a moving target so.....

Your point?

[Mister Blastman]

Auren Rhysode, on 02 November 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I re-checked my source, and it turns out the amount was actually 24 million. Unfortunately they didn't cite any sources, so it seems I'll have to ferret them out myself. Sorry.

Your source? What is your source?

[ANGRY Ike]

Tangelis, on 02 November 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

In regards to IGP itself. I have no idea where this 22 million debt figure comes from, though IGP did file proceedings for bankruptcy under their former CEO. PGI got the rights to MW:O (not sure if that was part of their bankruptcy or not, might have been just before) but they did sell the rights to MW:Tactics as part of those proceedings to AFAIK an unnamed developer.

I don't know if the company actually absolved it's debts through bankruptcy, or was bought out or merely recovered or not. But it is under new management since PGI's business with them, and they still exist as a game developer.

IGP as it was during it's publishing of MWO is no longer a legal entity. All assets including all their office items, any company vehicles, etc, were auctioned off for debt recovery. I found the website of the company that handled the liquidation,
http://archive.raymo...-publishing-inc (Office Assets link)
http://archive.raymo...-for-sale/26192 (link for tender on Mechwarrior: Tactics auction, all french language PDFs.)
And they sold off all IGP's office electronics and computers, jooysticks, etc, for CAN$45,660 starting bid back in January. MW:Tactics was sold to private buyers under a confidentiality agreement, so who knows who actually bought the rights? As a Mechwarrior game, whoever the developer/owner is would have to get rights to the Mechwarrior name from PGI in order to continue development under the current name and art assets. So if PGI knows who owns it, they aren't legally able to say.

The current IGP has no relation to the original company except for name, likely purchased for less than $2-3,000 CAN for part of the debt recovery/asset liquidation.

That said, if IGP really was getting 70% of all profits as Khobai said, then that should give you some kind of indication on the financial mismanagement going on behind the scenes which as screwed both MWT and MWO.

NVM, googling some on IGP revealed some interesting info.
https://en.wikipedia..._solidarité_FTQ
These were the majority owners of IGP, a Quebecois investment firm. They likely saw the infusion of cash from MWO and MWT and gutted the profits in order to fund other businesses. Typical hedge/investment fund behavior. Other cases in point, Cerberus Capital and their ownership of Chrysler Corp leading to their bankruptcy, and the current Colt's Manufacturing/Colt's Defense bankruptcy in both Canada and the US, due to hedge fund ownership of Colt and years of being gutted for increasing CEO profit at the expense of company stability.

[Khobai]

Quote

That said, if IGP really was getting 70% of all profits as Khobai said, then that should give you some kind of indication on the financial mismanagement going on behind the scenes which as screwed both MWT and MWO.

70% is typically what publishers get. Thats business as usual. Not really an indication of financial mismanagement.

Where IGP screwed up is trying to make mechwarrior tactics and that other god awful MMORPG. They shouldve just stuck to developing MWO.

[Whatzituyah]

DivineEvil, on 01 November 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

All the bitterness is either about:
1.) People bragging about promises, which were never made.

You mean like the Flea?

[pbiggz]

The bitterness is basically entirely a result of slow development. Even grossly incompetent management can keep its consumers happy if they shovel enough stuff in their direction, but they're not doing that, (and i am not saying they should). They do need to find a way to speed up their content delivery, and NOT mechs, we have lots of those. I'm talking about maps, new weapons and equipment, new skill trees, and new metagame (that is new economies, long term goals, etc). In their defense, they are working on it, but slowly.

My advice would be to let the players bear some of the burden of content creation, because we will pretty much make maps for free and be happy to play them. We've done it before too, look at MW4 Mercs.

Also let players host dedicated servers, because again, we'll do that too, we're still doing it in living legends.

TLDR, we have a great community, but they dont like it when PGI has all the control over how you play, give us some tools and we can help make the game better FOR FREE.

[FireDog]

Whatzituyah, on 02 November 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

You mean like the Flea?

Good Grief! :-) We did get a Locust.... and I do not see many of those bugs scurrying around nowadays. It was bad enough with Jenners, Spiders and Ravens, not to mention the Fire Starters and Arctic Cheetah light killers we have now.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Its actually not that bad right now. I used to be the first ones that wanted to string PGI up by the nads but...the game despite the current meta of laserbarf is...actually fun to play. I still get a lot of enjoyment when i hit that battle button, and My favorite rides havent been giganerfed...yet....

I have an ill feeling about the re balance patch tho. The only thing I like so far are the ecm changes and buffs to IS doubles...

[kesmai]

Now all here is partly speculation. So I speculate too. The money went into pre production assets for transverse. The trailer, the mockups, the art and design. Easily 10 to15 million $ spent. I might remind you that a kickstarter or crowdfunding is mainly used to fathom interest and attract investors (star citizen is not an exception to that), Instead of financing the game itself. So i'd say that's where the money went.

[Khobai]

Quote

The money went into pre production assets for transverse. The trailer, the mockups, the art and design. Easily 10 to15 million $ spent

wut? they had like nothing tangible to show anyone. it was a couple 3d models and thats it. thats one of the huge reasons the kickstarter failed.

the biggest cost item for transverse was the 1 cent it cost for the napkin they used to write down that horrible game idea on.

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2015 - 12:25 AM.

[kesmai]

I would not be so sure of that.

[Whatzituyah]

FireDog, on 02 November 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

Good Grief! :-) We did get a Locust.... and I do not see many of those bugs scurrying around nowadays. It was bad enough with Jenners, Spiders and Ravens, not to mention the Fire Starters and Arctic Cheetah light killers we have now.

I use a Urban Mech and a Locust as my lights mostly now until I get an engine or something to put in the Wolfhounds but the Wolfhounds were great aswell.

[Auren Rhysode]

Mister Blastman, on 02 November 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

Your source? What is your source?

Word of mouse. Good news is I found their bankruptcy proceedings, bad news is that it's in French. Have a look.