136 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

About the factions, I mean Samurai in space like House Kurita? Whats cooler than that. Street Samurai made Shadow Run. The other factions have a character to and the Clans, who use cloning and stuff to set them apart from the Inner Sphere.

Ok Im done with off topic samurai and alien talk.

[C E Dwyer]

sycocys, on 03 November 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

I'm simply saying they would have been better off starting a new IP rather than using the BT one.

A new IP removes the limits of using an existing (and somewhat old) franchise. Being bound to rules and lore hasn't done them a whole lot of favors in the game design.

so I was correct then, because without the I.P an Atlas is just a name, calling a nation Lyran Comonwealth is going to get you sued, if fact the whole point of this game is the I.P.

Its not the I.P's fault that P.G.I can't envision a good game or code worth a damn.

This will be born out by the H.B.S game of the same I. P in 2017

You only have to look at Shadow Run, another I.P that is almost as old as Battle Tech, see age has nothing to do with it, and what a good job they have done with that, to see it will be good, if of course you like turn based

[Bishop Steiner]

Johnny Z, on 03 November 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

The very best thing about the IP is the factions. Unmatched in any other universe like Star Trek or Star wars. I do hope the Battletech bird aliens make more of an appearance in the future though. Also an all female race of blue aliens they can add new.

Need more aliens in Mechwarrior.

you rail against all things Clans...but want talking birds......

admittedly, talking space birds actually make more sense than the laughably bad, adolescent fantasies that begat the Clans, but still........

Say NO to sentient aliens in Battletech.

[KahnWongFuChung]

So you don't want to play MechWarrior ? The IP is the whole point of this game.

Or are you saying you would be happier playing Hawken ?
==============================================================================================

Sorry Kid MechWarrior died with MechWarrior4 Mercenaries what remains of this once great IP is a few hundred playing MWO and a few hundred playing on GameRanger. Been around since day 1 for MWO and Hawken and there both good mech games just different perspectives of Mecha game play.

#1 Arrogant Devs that think a FPS-COD-WOT-Epeen sport mech game is better than the older PC IP games.
#2 No Social aspects like we hade on the old MSN Gamming Zone
#3 No Community involvement with maps or private leagues.
#4 Weak mechs that have no longevity in battle to much offensive ability's no armor and defensive ability's.
#5 Not disabling the Alpha strike and making players use skill and tactics with weapons cycle mode.
#6 To high of MC prices
#7 To low of Cbill and rewards per faction and matches.
#8 Cw needs a 12v12 team Vs team only mode and a 12 vs 12 pug only mode for better balance.
#9 Fix all the exploits ,bugs and hacks that have been around for 3 years.
#10 Fix weapons damage animation needs to be reduced by 50% for better game play.

I could list more but why unless a smart DEV wants to look on this thread and do something about the good ideas for MWO?

[Jetfire]

There is a wide range of issues that limit MWO from being all it could be.

In order of importance:
-TTK : pinpoint convergence and lack of a real heat scale system means these huge mechs feel like they are made of cardboard
-CW : incomplete system to compete means shallow if entertaining DM gameplay
-Community : A very small and fractured community, too many people just want what they want without serious consideration as to what it means for the game and this goes for just about every group. There are a few people with good design ideas but by and large its a lot of nonsensical noise. Even if the community had a great idea... we have little ability to explain how to build it into the engine and make it not interfere with existing systems.

Everything else is polish, making things better but the above are core issues that affect everything else.

[Rampancy]

KahnWongFuChung, on 03 November 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

So you don't want to play MechWarrior ? The IP is the whole point of this game.

Or are you saying you would be happier playing Hawken ?
==============================================================================================

Sorry Kid MechWarrior died with MechWarrior4 Mercenaries what remains of this once great IP is a few hundred playing MWO and a few hundred playing on GameRanger. Been around since day 1 for MWO and Hawken and there both good mech games just different perspectives of Mecha game play.

#1 Arrogant Devs that think a FPS-COD-WOT-Epeen sport mech game is better than the older PC IP games.
#2 No Social aspects like we hade on the old MSN Gamming Zone
#3 No Community involvement with maps or private leagues.
#4 Weak mechs that have no longevity in battle to much offensive ability's no armor and defensive ability's.
#5 Not disabling the Alpha strike and making players use skill and tactics with weapons cycle mode.
#6 To high of MC prices
#7 To low of Cbill and rewards per faction and matches.
#8 Cw needs a 12v12 team Vs team only mode and a 12 vs 12 pug only mode for better balance.
#9 Fix all the exploits ,bugs and hacks that have been around for 3 years.
#10 Fix weapons damage animation needs to be reduced by 50% for better game play.

I could list more but why unless a smart DEV wants to look on this thread and do something about the good ideas for MWO?

I always find posts like this hilarious

1.) There are units with hundreds of active players alone
2.) MWO has longer TTK and better-balanced weapons than any previous Mechwarrior title, despite its issues
3.) There is literally nothing stopping the same kind of community-based leagues and galactic conquest-type play that existed in previous games. If you want it, if the playerbase wants it, THEN CREATE IT.

This community is beyond whiny. It's awful. Unbelievable.

You're grown men. Act like it.

[KahnWongFuChung]

I always find posts like this hilarious

1.) There are units with hundreds of active players alone
2.) MWO has longer TTK and better-balanced weapons than any previous Mechwarrior title, despite its issues
3.) There is literally nothing stopping the same kind of community-based leagues and galactic conquest-type play that existed in previous games. If you want it, if the playerbase wants it, THEN CREATE IT.

This community is beyond whiny. It's awful. Unbelievable.

You're grown men. Act like it.

=========================================================================================
And I find these reply's redundant and tasteless .

There is no Multiplayer MM setup like we had in MechWarrior2-4 for 1v1-12v12 league play the system in MWO is incomplete If MWO had a huge game lobby system and matchmaker setup like MechWarrior had I would gladly sponsor a 1v1-12v12 Solaris league and bring back a planetary league like BTU or MWL or NBT was.

And your wrong on mech longevity go download MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Demo play it you will be surprised how much better the mechs move and longevity and just actual fun piloting a mech is in a game not this lumbering bad framerate no agilty setup that is MWO.

Edited by KahnWongFuChung, 03 November 2015 - 09:38 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

KahnWongFuChung, on 03 November 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

I always find posts like this hilarious

1.) There are units with hundreds of active players alone
2.) MWO has longer TTK and better-balanced weapons than any previous Mechwarrior title, despite its issues
3.) There is literally nothing stopping the same kind of community-based leagues and galactic conquest-type play that existed in previous games. If you want it, if the playerbase wants it, THEN CREATE IT.

This community is beyond whiny. It's awful. Unbelievable.

You're grown men. Act like it.

=========================================================================================
And I find these reply's redundant and tasteless .

There is no Multiplayer MM setup like we had in MechWarrior2-4 for 1v1-12v12 league play the system in MWO is incomplete If MWO had a huge game lobby system and matchmaker setup like MechWarrior had I would gladly sponsor a 1v1-12v12 Solaris league and bring back a planetary league like BTU or MWL or NBT was.

And your wrong on mech longevity go download MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Demo play it you will be surprised how much better the mechs move and longevity and just actual fun piloting a mech is in a game not this lumbering bad framerate no agilty setup that is MWO.

Mw4 mtiplayer had Beagle Actve Probes that let you lock onto enemies through walls, amd you could poptart with a 38 CERLL Hypernova (the Lasers were instant hit with 0 burn time).

It only had a long TTK because everyone was hiding for most of the match.

[Lightfoot]

Mechs are too weak for 2xRecycle. This causes all the weapons to be nerfed so badly and terribly that MWO does not resemble MechWarrior gameplay and the TTKs are still very short.

Here is my list of the things that 2xRecycle plus mechs that are too weak have caused us to have to put up with.

1. Gauss Rifle charge-up, lifted from Duke Nukem, changes Gauss Rifle into bad sniper rifle. Horrible, unnecessary, required because mechs are too weak.

2. DHS 1.4, heatsinks that shed heat too slowly for large energy especially ERPPCs, needed because mechs are too weak for PPCs.

3. Ghost heat, needed because mechs are too weak for normal Group-Fire and no hard heat cap.

4. Removal of SSRMs (we have a 14% chance dice roll with animation instead)

5. Really bad LRMs.

6. Slow-mo PPCs.

7. Slow-mo ballistics.

Even with all this TTKs are very high and gameplay is just one dimensional laser-vomit-brawl.

The mechs need to be tough enough to allow the various weapons to all work normally, otherwise why even bother with the 2xRecycle if it just destroys the fun of the gameplay?

[GernMiester]

Its the tiny team.

Stuff like no one can modify code (some guy who no longer works there wrote) without breaking stuff

$250,000 to design a map when I have seen better maps made for free by the community of many many other games.

Stubborn jackass running the show

[sycocys]

Cathy, on 03 November 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

so I was correct then, because without the I.P an Atlas is just a name, calling a nation Lyran Comonwealth is going to get you sued, if fact the whole point of this game is the I.P.

Its not the I.P's fault that P.G.I can't envision a good game or code worth a damn.

This will be born out by the H.B.S game of the same I. P in 2017

You only have to look at Shadow Run, another I.P that is almost as old as Battle Tech, see age has nothing to do with it, and what a good job they have done with that, to see it will be good, if of course you like turn based

You don't need to use the IP's names or mechanics or any of the lore. I really don't understand how you twisted my post into believing that you would have to.

Outside of the mechs and overlays of the factions - there really isn't any need for the IP at all. The game would be just as good with altered mech designs (see also Unseen), and fabricated factions/backstories with more money and time spent on actually developing a balanced fun game rather than mucking about trying to figure out how to keep balance within the scope of the IP's canon rules and lore.

[Timuroslav]

KahnWongFuChung, on 03 November 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

And your wrong on mech longevity go download MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Demo play it you will be surprised how much better the mechs move and longevity and just actual fun piloting a mech is in a game not this lumbering bad framerate no agilty setup that is MWO.

MW4 left all the mechs below Heavies half backed. Have you seen the Commando and Centurion in that game? They look horrible as sin. The mechs that actually looked right were Heavies and Assaults. I mean Black Knight Expansion kind of says it all really. Then you have the half finished laser and Autocannon mechanics. Lasers looked like flat paper, and Autocannons were a joke. They did multi shot, but on the first bullet mattered; the sound was not even programmed right. MW4 maps were WAY More flat. yea they had destructible crystals, but the terrain was basically the same rolling plain with variable color.
Don't get me wrong I loved that game, but I'm saying you have rose colored glasses to a degree.

MW4 Centurion Everybody



MW4 Commando everyone.

They're different chasis, but they basically have the same legs and torsos. It's like they shrunk the legs down and barely changed the torsos. All the love in the art in that game went towards Assaults and Heavies.
And Yes, I have played MW4 recently. You want to rush to get out of the Mediums and Heavies as soon as possible in that game.

Edited by Timuroslav, 03 November 2015 - 05:40 PM.

[Rampancy]

KahnWongFuChung, on 03 November 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

=========================================================================================
And I find these reply's redundant and tasteless .

There is no Multiplayer MM setup like we had in MechWarrior2-4 for 1v1-12v12 league play the system in MWO is incomplete If MWO had a huge game lobby system and matchmaker setup like MechWarrior had I would gladly sponsor a 1v1-12v12 Solaris league and bring back a planetary league like BTU or MWL or NBT was.

And your wrong on mech longevity go download MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Demo play it you will be surprised how much better the mechs move and longevity and just actual fun piloting a mech is in a game not this lumbering bad framerate no agilty setup that is MWO.

There is absolutely nothing stopping teams from following a set of agreed-upon league rules and playing anything from 1v1 to 12v12 in a private lobby. Literally nothing at all. All of the tools are there. Why don't you use them.

And speaking of longevity, I remember pretty clearly nuking anything in 1-3 alphas with 4xERPPC, 2xERPPC+Gauss, 6-7xERLL, etc. With hitscan, insta-damage, pinpoint-accurate lasers that hit with full damage out to 800m. That and jump-sniping were the only ways to effectively play any version of MW4. You might be able to use RACs or something to keep a single mech's head down, but his buddies would nuke you in a couple seconds if they got a bead on you.
I don't know why people have these gigantic rose-colored glasses when they talk about previous Mechwarrior titles, but the fact that SRMs and other short-range weapons are viable AT ALL in this game instantly puts it ahead of previous titles. cSPL boating in MW3 would be the only exception to that... but I don't know if 2-second leg kills can be considered an improvement.

[Weeny Machine]

sycocys, on 03 November 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

I'm simply saying they would have been better off starting a new IP rather than using the BT one.

A new IP removes the limits of using an existing (and somewhat old) franchise. Being bound to rules and lore hasn't done them a whole lot of favors in the game design.

Sure the IP limits you in some ways, however, gives you huge potential in others - like campaigns, realm domination, intrigues, house allegiances & pride etc.

To tap this huge potential, though, you need to be creative. And that's something no one has accused PGI of hehe Well, and the ignoring of the potential and coming up with CW just shows it as well.

[StraferX]

• PGI not fixing major core issues from beginning just bandaid patches
  
• MECH sim turned into F2P cash grab
  
• lack of role warfare implementation and weak skill tree structures
  
• lack of and very poor viable content ie: maps and game modes
  
• lack of a modding mappers community which would free up PGI to keep core code correct and free up rescources

I see many writing that the community is the big bite and while I agree however if we received what the original concept was, if major issues did not take 3 years to fix and the fixes were only ones that the top 2 teams snorted about. Well the community would still complain but not as angsty as now.

[NextGame]

The reality is that this game is now pretty old. It has stagnated, and really it's time for something fresh, grander in scope, and better. Something where it is evident that mistakes have been learned from.

Imo, they should go for a proper subscription based mmo, with an Elite Dangerous style galaxy, with dropship impact on gameplay, and planetside scale planetary conquest. Also: allow peoples mech inventory to carry over into the new game in order to generate a lot of goodwill.

That would allow for LAM's and 4 leggers etc as the battlefield would typically be assymetrical, and it would be more about large scale conquest rather than small team based skirmishes.

Edited by NextGame, 04 November 2015 - 05:40 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Cathy, on 03 November 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

so I was correct then, because without the I.P an Atlas is just a name, calling a nation Lyran Comonwealth is going to get you sued, if fact the whole point of this game is the I.P.

Its not the I.P's fault that P.G.I can't envision a good game or code worth a damn.

This will be born out by the H.B.S game of the same I. P in 2017

You only have to look at Shadow Run, another I.P that is almost as old as Battle Tech, see age has nothing to do with it, and what a good job they have done with that, to see it will be good, if of course you like turn based

without an IP you have no game. Which is sad as hell because for most other games its the other way around. Raise your hand if you came just for the IP

*raises hand*

[sycocys]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 November 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

without an IP you have no game. Which is sad as hell because for most other games its the other way around. Raise your hand if you came just for the IP

*raises hand*

I think without an IP, if they wanted to do a mech game they'd have actually had to develop it because they wouldn't have gotten any of the the nostalgia buy-ins.

For me the IP really doesn't matter, it may have or in the future make a difference if they actually do something to utilize the reasons the IP's predecessors gained such a following - until then its just mechs without much of a game to support the cost of licensing the franchise. Like I said they could just as easily have made their own versions of the mechs with different names and had the same product without a lot of the overhead.

[Timuroslav]

StraferX, on 04 November 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

• PGI not fixing major core issues from beginning just bandaid patches
  
• MECH sim turned into F2P cash grab
  
• lack of role warfare implementation and weak skill tree structures
  
• lack of and very poor viable content ie: maps and game modes
  
• lack of a modding mappers community which would free up PGI to keep core code correct and free up rescources

I see many writing that the community is the big bite and while I agree however if we received what the original concept was, if major issues did not take 3 years to fix and the fixes were only ones that the top 2 teams snorted about. Well the community would still complain but not as angsty as now.

You're not wrong, but the story is much deeper than a reply.
Here's my response to your statements.

• (Original statement) "PGI not fixing major core issues from beginning just bandaid patches"->[My rebuttal] As more features are put into the game the game will have to be adjusted and tuned depending on the feature imputed. So it is natural the game will change over time if the game developers are constantly adding features. Planet side 2 had to adjust the capability of Galaxies because a 4 manned Galaxy could just Carpet bomb a base into oblivion when they added the grenade launcher onto that Monster. Bandaid patches are a natural flow for a living Free to Play game. Look at Minecraft. Look at World of Warcraft and even Planet Side 2. In fact the best indicator that a game has a living community is patches. So No you're wrong here; Patches are a good thing. Mechwarrior had to adjust almost all their weapons when Clan Weapons came into the game. Weapons will always be tuned when newer weapons come into the game. Medium Range Missiles, Long Tom, and Arrow IV missiles are going to break balance too, when they enter the game.
  
• (Original statement) "MECH sim turned into F2P cash grab" -> [My rebuttal] Is it a cash grab if they are providing features and content people want? People wanted clan mechs and the Marauder and Warhammer. Now they are selling early access to it. All those mechs will be in the game for free. Also the only feature that can be considered to make it more sim like than it is now; is repair and re-arm; which every heavy and assault hated so yea. Other than that the game for the most part plays pretty close to how it did in Closed Beta. Also if it's a cash grab why are they supplying the content they propose/promise? cough* Star Citizen cough*
  
• (Original statement) "lack of role warfare implementation and weak skill tree structures" -> [My rebuttal] None, You and me are in agreement here.
  
• (Original statement) "lack of and very poor viable content ie: maps and game modes" -> I would argue here that this is a result of making every game mode Skirmish because people wanted things to die quicker? The whole "I'm mad at Light mechs being effective and more useful than me in certain situations" is what caused this. In essence I do agree with you, I blame the MechWarrior community for this one though. "Everything should be progressive, Assaults mechs should the be the Peak of End game, Nothing should be better than Assaults, All modes should be skirmish" <-Yawn*
  
• (Original statement) "lack of a modding mappers community which would free up PGI to keep core code correct and free up resources" -> [My thoughts on this statement] I'm really wishy-washy here. To get that one player created diamond, you have to sort through a lot of ****. People are going to create maps with certain ideas in mind. 'Epic bottlenecks', 'sniper's play ground' 'epic brawling field' 'battle in a pretty scenery' Inspired maps mean well, but their execution, screening, and sifting through them are big pains. Not to mention people making maps to exploit. so i.d.k. No opinion I guess.

Your post is thoughtful, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of these problems are community created.

Edited by Timuroslav, 04 November 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Cryengine...

It had no server side authenticated netcode, it's a massive PITA to work with, but hey at least it's cheap.