28 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

"Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock · 6 Min.Vor 6 Minuten

So I have been considering for a long time to not allow experienced players to arm lock - however there was never an easy way to limit."

Question to you dear Sir - or whomever it will answer...

What Mechs have the majority of their Firepower in their Arms and what does that mean?

[Macksheen]

We know all experienced players never arm lock. What ever could he be talking about?

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Sadly, I was in a match the other day where someone was even on chat berating me to take off armlock ... on my torso-weapons-only Thunderbolt. Le sigh.

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Interesting to see Russ speak about this. I am an armlock and zoom junky - I turn those things on and off so many times in match ... dozens?

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For your original question, the real question is which mechs have split armaments where being never synced w/ the arms would really hurt their convergence ... like a Dragon Slayer or non-HM Highlander configured as a brawler ... or a Timber Wolf / Stormcrow ... CTF-3D ... . The mechs like a Dire Wolf, Jager, Blackjack that lack actuators to make much difference aren't likely to be affected.

[Monkey Lover]

Maybe dires/crabs with gauss +ppc builds.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 03 November 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Bad idea imo - it affects clans less, since they can ditch lower arm actuators at the build stage, and its.. well its annoying for torso only mechs to have a primary reticule where none of your weapons point. Why nerf IS mechs with split armaments?

[Queen of England]

What a bizzare idea. I don't really see where it would help out balance or how it would be hard to implement. I mean, to remove arm lock, you just remove arm lock, right? Then people who really liked arm lock can just drop the lower arm actuators from their timber wolves and continue on.

[Lostdragon]

Lots of experienced players leave armlock on to aid convergence, only turning it off when they actually need to track a fast mech or one that is outside the movement profile of torso weapons. Forcing it off will cause a bit of deconvergence and more damage spread when moving in mechs like the 6 CSPL ACH and others that boat the same kinds of weapons in the arms and torsos.

[FupDup]

Lostdragon, on 03 November 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

Lots of experienced players leave armlock on to aid convergence, only turning it off when they actually need to track a fast mech or one that is outside the movement profile of torso weapons. Forcing it off will cause a bit of deconvergence and more damage spread when moving in mechs like the 6 CSPL ACH and others that boat the same kinds of weapons in the arms and torsos.

For me I find it more convenient the other way around, I default it to off and then only toggle it on when I need to line up a pinpoint alpha that contains weapons distributed across my arms and torsos.

[Kira Onime]

Q: WHAT MECHS HAVE THE MAJORITY OF THEIR FIREPOWER IN THE ARMS?
A: Nova, DWF*potentially*, Warhawk, Mist Lynx. and others.

[Lostdragon]

FupDup, on 03 November 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

For me I find it more convenient the other way around, I default it to off and then only toggle it on when I need to line up a pinpoint alpha that contains weapons distributed across my arms and torsos.

I used to play that way too, but I changed to using it default on about a year ago and was getting better results, but ymmv.

[CDLord HHGD]

I never use armlock so this wouldn't affect me either way. Carry one.

[Revis Volek]

FupDup, on 03 November 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

For me I find it more convenient the other way around, I default it to off and then only toggle it on when I need to line up a pinpoint alpha that contains weapons distributed across my arms and torsos.

I also prefer it this way, mine is not a toggle tho, Just lock my arms while i hold the button as soon as i let go they unlock. Im sure others play like this too...it has given me the best flexibitly and fits my play style much better. Im not that bad of a shot where i need it on all the time (not trying to blow my own horn) and i find it just hinders me more often when its on all the time.

[mogs01gt]

I've never used arm lock. I like the ability to fire at two different mechs at once.

Edited by mogs01gt, 03 November 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Griffin, Panthers, Blackjack, Enforcer, Trebs, well... a whole lot have more than 50% of their firepower in arms.

It's about time they fix instant arm lock.

[SpiralFace]

DarthRevis, on 03 November 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I also prefer it this way, mine is not a toggle tho, Just lock my arms while i hold the button as soon as i let go they unlock. Im sure others play like this too...it has given me the best flexibitly and fits my play style much better. Im not that bad of a shot where i need it on all the time (not trying to blow my own horn) and i find it just hinders me more often when its on all the time.

And that is the idea behind a change like this. Desyncing the arms to torso weapons.

This is used in high tier play quite a bit with good players. Toggling on arm lock, even with lower arm actuator removed clan mechs DOES focus the damage more then if you don't do it.

This will affect how builds are made, and in all honesty, I'm 50/50 on it, as it will more just migrate the meta then actually affect pin point loadouts (the top meta will just shift to those with large amounts of torso arm points.)

What it WILL affect heavily, is Asymetrical "dead side" builds. as if this change goes through, you would no longer be able to gauss / PPC off of a dead side timberwolf.

[Lightfoot]

What's Arm-Lock? Sorry, it's just not a big deal and even less if you are an experienced player. Move on to something else that has impact like fixing the Gauss Rifle so it conforms to Battle Tech and not Quake styled shooters.

MWO's problem for the millionth time is the mechs are too weak for the 2xRecycle. That's why the weapons are so over-powered so go to the root of the problem and stop tweeking the side effects. Make the mechs tough enough to use the Battle Tech arsenal of weapons.

I have played MW2, MW3, MW4, MW4-Mercs, MWLL, as well as the MechWarrior online game EA was making in 2001. MWO has the weakest mechs and shortest TTK of all of them and look how nerfed everything is.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I doubt it'll have much effect on many mechs. The only ones to be really affected will be sword-board builds. With the clans ability to play Lego mech, this can be worked around.

[Boris The Spider]

The Clan mech actuator complaint is easily fixed. Just give them 5° movement when the articulators are removed. Not enough to be useful, just enough to have the desired effect. All clan mechs have the ability to move both arms laterally, animations are already there and from a technical stand point, they must have that degree of movement for the weapons to converge at different ranges anyway. If needs be, for balance reasons do it to the IS mechs also.

Deals with a lot balance issues, re-introduces the split between torso and arm weapon functions, moves us back away from the peek-shoot meta, back to the more movement focused play that we had before... added bonus is they can then un-nerf jump-jets... remember the mechs used for jump sniping existed for several months before jump sniping appeared, jump sniping only appeared en-mass with the introduction of the arm-lock toggle.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 03 November 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[Khobai]

the problem ISNT the fact arm lock exists.

the problem is that turning on arm lock moves your reticle instantly rather than moving it at the speed your arms normally move at.

the solution is to make the reticle move the proper speed when you armlock. Instead of being instant it should move at the speed your arms normally move at. armlock should NOT be abusable as a way to move your arms faster than they normally move.

Not only does that fix the abusiveness of armlock but it also makes mechs with arm movement quirks slightly better because mechs without arm movement quirks can no longer abuse armlock to instantly move their arms back to center.

Edited by Khobai, 03 November 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Water Bear]

As already mentioned this is a bad idea because the game's biggest offenders are no longer Inner Sphere 'mechs using gauss + ppc, but rather laser vomiting clan mechs and autocannon boats. Most AC boats are assaults which either cannot move their arms left or right (no lower arm actuators) or already have most of those hardpoints in the torsos. As for lasers, it is true that you would get less convergence this way, but already they are a DoT weapon whose damage can be spread by twisting and motion, so the nerf to lasers wouldn't be serious.

Why would Russ be trying to apply a nerf to weapons that aren't in use? (Gauss + PPC)

[Boris The Spider]

Water Bear, on 03 November 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Why would Russ be trying to apply a nerf to weapons that aren't in use? (Gauss + PPC)

Three reason off the top of my head: A) the introduction of arm-lock spawned multiple nerfs, a roll back would then allow for introduction of multiple buffs. B ) It increases TTK significantly as a mech in motion is able to deal less damage. If you are turning, moving perpendicular or parallel to your opponent is is incredibly difficult to strike an alpha with both the torso and arm mounted weapons. C) It creates differences between mech chassis, so a mech with a ballistic and an energy on each arm is radically different to a mech with a ballistic on the torso and an energy on the arm, allowing him to sell more mechs.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 03 November 2015 - 01:29 PM.