23 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

MeiSooHaityu, on 04 November 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

That's why it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars .

PGI COULD make Endo a locked item. To not impact the the IS chassis so much, they could say that a mech without Endo would be eligible for a Ferro Stage 2 upgrade. The upgrade would be comparable to running Endo and Ferro.

After all that though, it would be more programming and a more convoluted structure/armor system, and at the end of the day it would be adding all this for no gain or loss but instead allow some players to help suspend disbelief.

I think it is just better to not think too deeply into the logistics of swaping in an Endo structure, and just let it ride.

I'm not currently campaigning either way. I'm simply pointing out the logic fallacy.

That said, it already costs 100,000s.... it would realistically cost millions.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 November 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'm not currently campaigning either way. I'm simply pointing out the logic fallacy.

That said, it already costs 100,000s.... it would realistically cost millions.

Not for me, my techs work CHEAP. They aren't very good mind you (non working monitors, drop ship exhaust leaking through the floor, etc...), but I save a ton on labor costs.

As for materials, some chumps buy it, but I make it.

"Using zero-G manufacturing techniques that uniformly mix high-density steel with lower-density titanium and aluminum" - Sarna.net

Screw that, I just melt some beer cans together with some single heat sinks sitting in a huge pile at the back of the mechbay. Mix that crap together and start pouring it into the mech (let that stuff run wherever) and you're done.

A normally multimillion dollar job replacing Endo steel only cost a few Hundred thousand.

With all those savings I bought the holo-vid collection of Battletech: Season 1.

#noregrets

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 04 November 2015 - 07:40 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Leone, on 04 November 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

Actually according to lore the Free Worlds League was making mech refit kits to upgrade existing IS mechs to compete with the clans. There was even the whole 'Bribe Thomas Marik with medical care for his dying son' chapter and the 'Oh no, he's angry we replaced his dead kid with a double to bilk him for more tech' section. (Yeah, the Davions were not good people.) While endo steel was not explicitly stated, those books I remember them in were known for glossing over a lotta details since they were focused on the political aspect.

It stands within reason that while time consuming (which they were mentioned being) these refits could very well include an internal structure overhaul.

~Leone.

Nope, Endo-steel equipped mechs where fresh off the production lines. New guns, and FF armor where the refit kit package of the day which is why FF armor is all OVER IS mechs from 3050, DHS also where part of the maintenance cycle refits.

But no, XL engine and Endo-steel mechs where new machines


No sane commander would send all his mechs back to the factories for rebuilding than ship them back to the front lines. Refit with new guns and equipment, new ones rolling off the lines get the fancier stuff.

We didn't ship all our 75mm equipped shermans back to detroit to be re-equipped to E8 standards than ship em back to Germany.. We simply rolled out the new tanks alongside the older ones

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 04 November 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[FupDup]

MauttyKoray, on 03 November 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

You're treating it like I'm suggesting a change to the game. I'm not.

Let's take a glance back at the original post that started this thread:

MauttyKoray, on 03 November 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Am I wrong or is this essentially a mechanic that we should actually lose, and have it locked to the specific chassis/variants it comes naturally on? I know it would create a major difference in a lot of mechs and change the game balance a lot when a ton of these mechs suddenly can't free up random tonnage suddenly. However the specific variants that naturally come with Endo would suddenly have a special characteristic about them making unique and have another aspect to separate them from the others.

MauttyKoray, on 03 November 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

I said that I thought about this and how its a major production aspect of a mech (like, a factory production thing, not just a mech garage hot swap) compared to MWO where its a simple click and a ridiculously small amount of CBills. I brought up to discussion this fact and what if switching between standard and Endo weren't a thing. Differences in variants could be unique in this aspect, such as standard variants getting more hardpoints to take advantage of more low tonnage weapons while endo variants could have fewer hardpoints and thus be more viable with larger weaponry?

So in translation, the non-Endo variants would have to spam Medium Lasers and heatsinks to the gills to make effective use of their limited tonnage. Because if you tried to use any weapons that required decent tonnage (e.g. any ballistic weapons at all or most missiles), lacking Endo would significantly hinder them.

PGI pretty much never touches a mech's hardpoints anyways, they only did that a few times waaaaay back in CB.

MauttyKoray, on 03 November 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

I think one of the problems of this game is the fact that Endo is in fact a straight upgrade and almost every mech ever gets switched to it. Its not a choice, not an alternate, its the core choice for practically every mech. However, that's not the discussion, what I stated above is.

Once again:

FupDup, on 03 November 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

When an idea has a large impact on balance, you can't just dismiss concerns about how it's gonna affect balance.

MauttyKoray, on 03 November 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

Oh, and for the last ******* time in any thread ever that I've created "IM NOT ******* TRYING TO MAKE THIS TT." An idiot could realize that when you base something like Mechwarrior, an action oriented game, off a TT, a turn based game, things will NOT directly translate. However you can still use things like the TT rules as a basis for an ADAPTATION to a real time game. My favorite being weapons "What, you only want us to fire every 10 seconds?" ... "No, you're stupid, it does the amount of damage WITHIN A 10 SECOND PERIOD. Not just ONCE every 10 seconds. It could fire two, three, even four times within that 10 seconds and do its damage...ffs."

You're the one who made the complaint about "3x weapons and 2x armor," not me. The natural conclusion that I'm going to draw when I read that is that you want 1x weapons and 1x armor.