21 replies to this topic

[Centre]

Kuritaは日本語でなんと思いますか？

[Raizo Nishizawa]

ゲーム上での架空世界でば旧帝国海軍の栗田武雄海軍中将の子孫とゆー設定。

このゲーム８０年代に創作した当時の関係者に日本語・日本文化に詳しい方ゼロ。おかげさまで絶対ありえないバカけた人名や意味不明の地名、「オーサムライーミンナイツモハラキリマース」のような旧帝国軍のサル真似軍団が正規軍で、「THIS IS JAPAN」と勘違いしてるヤツが多いワケ。ま、仕方なし。

Edited by Raizo Nishizawa, 09 July 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[gRik]

栗田で合っていますよ。上の方が言っておられるように第二次世界大戦時の栗田健男海軍提督の子孫（という設定）。

自分はバトルテックの世界観制作者の日本観はむしろ
「解った上で『サムライハラキリゲイシャ』風のネタをやってる」と受け取ってますかね。

まあ日本語だとすると意味の通らないドラコ語も多々あるのは確かですが……。

[Raizo Nishizawa]

gRik, on 10 July 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

自分はバトルテックの世界観制作者の日本観はむしろ
「解った上で『サムライハラキリゲイシャ』風のネタをやってる」と受け取ってますかね。

いや、理解してないと認識したほうが正解でしょう。最近イラついて原本の Field Manual: Draconis Combine を手に入れてもう一度読むことにしたんですけどね。ロープレにかなり深入りの方、Kurita 陣ではやたら多いですから。

ちなみに問題の子孫、渡米したのちに帰国、そして二十一世紀にブラジル移民と化したらしいんですが。。。

Edited by Hayashi, 07 August 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[Raizo Nishizawa]

I'm switching languages only so there is no room for misunderstanding.

When FASA created the backstory for the Draconis Combine in the 80s, it was a mix of Imperial Japan and the Sengoku Era. Back then, Japanese culture was portrayed as something like the Shogun TV miniseries and B-movies like The Challenge. The result is Combine culture is the funhouse mirror version of Japan.

Many names for individuals (Hohiro, Kitsune) and planets (Kirei na Niwa) in the BT universe are nonsense. If there were Steiner Mechs with names like DerSchutzenRobo someone would throw up the BS card with a quickness, but the excuse is "Well, it's a thousand years in the future" from non-Japanese speakers when it comes to Kurita. House Steiner isn't a clone of Nazi Germany and Der Ring des Nibelungen, but the Combine is a repackaged Japanese Empire circa 1942 complete with harakiri and Bushido.

Not that this actually matters much since this is MWO and not some cracked out RPG, but it takes constant of suspension of disbelief to not go "Are you kidding me?" when it comes to the Combine backstory, if you are actually Japanese or live in Japan.

Edited by Hayashi, 07 August 2012 - 01:15 AM.

[Alex Wolfe]

「苦痢多」や。

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

speaking of japan, love your tanks irl, and loved playing your tank companies in world of tanks. looking forward to having more worthy opponents on the battlefield.

[Hayashi]

Alex Wolfe, on 11 July 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

「苦痢多」や。

中国語スタイルみたいな翻訳やなあ…

===========

そして、喧嘩がありましたから、その方のポストを全部消してしまいました。書く時、どうぞ他の方の気持ちを感じって、フォーラムの平和を守って下さい。皆様をご協力有難うございました。
And, due to a quarrel earlier, all posts related to that quarrel have been erased. When typing, please try to understand each other's feelings, and keep the peace in the forums. Thanks for your cooperation.

[Hex Pallett]

LOL so yourselves are not exactly sure what Kurita actually is...oh wait. Sorry I missed it. 栗田 seems pretty close.

Apparently whoever created Battletech universe is not exactly familiar with east Asia...I mean c'mon you got a giant Japanese navy flag on a 'Mech with a Chinese name! (yup I mean YLW)

Well, still better than House Liao I guess...in my whole life I've had the chance to meet less than five people who actually has a family name "廖" :/

Alex Wolfe, on 11 July 2012 - 03:39 AM, said:

「苦痢多」や。

Also this is ridiculous.

Edited by Helmstif, 04 April 2013 - 10:45 PM.

[Nerroth]

I wouldn't be the first to try and excuse all of FASA and Catalyst's ideas regarding various Terran cultures, be it in BattleTech or Shadowrun. (Bring from Ireland originally, I can't say I'd be a hundred percent sure about some of the portrayals of Tír na nÓg.)

But in the case of the Draconis Combine, there are mitigating circumstances involved.

In BT, there is a difference between planets or star-nations which have what one could refer to as a "top-down" dose of social engineering, and others which are more "bottom-up" in terms of colonists bringing certain cultures with them from Terra and seeing them set writ large in their new areas of space. (Of course, one could argue that a certain mixture of both dynamics can be in play no matter where in the human sphere you go, but how and ever.)

One good example of the "top-down" approach is in the Marian Hegemony, best covered in Handbook: Major Periphery States. Johann Sebastian O'Reilly was originally from the world of Booker in the Magistracy of Canopus, who brought an interest in Ancient Rome with him on his travels. (Or maybe he just got a little carried away at one too many toga parties; the Canopians have a reputation of their own to consider, after all.) So, when he struck it rich on Alphard and found himself in a position to bankroll the founding of his own Periphery state, he had the perfect opportunity to style it with all of the faux-Roman trappings he could get away with; patricians, plebians, slaves, the works. He wasn't the first man to try and pull this kind of stunt; Hector Worthington Rowe got a little carried away with Platonic ideals (and helotry) when founding the Rim Worlds Republic. However, while the RWR gradually dropped such trappings and evolved along a different cultural path, successive generations of Marians bought enough into the "space Roman" idea to allow the Hegemony to carry them into the modern era.

On the other end of the scale, there is the Axumite Providence, detailed in ISP3 (which is well worth checking out, I might add).

Spoiler

The Axumites were originally a group of colonists from the Maghreb, who left the Inner Sphere in order to escape the turmoil of the Outer Reaches Rebellion. When they eventually established themselves in the Providence Cluster deep in the anti-spinward Deep Periphery, the languages and cultures that they brought with them (Arabic, Berber, English, and French) became the basis of Axumite star-faring society. But even there, the centuries of isolation has seen the Providence's official version of Arabic diverge from its roots in the Libyan and Sa'idi dialects found on Terra.

Of the two, the Combine is really more of the former case than the latter. When the Alliance of Galedon started to exert its power and influence over the worlds of the coreward-spinward Inner Sphere, it had no overtly cultural bias behind its development. (Even on New Samarkand, the community which Shiro Kurita came from was but one of many; and he himself was arguably more of an extremist in terms of his political and cultural views than many of his contemporaries.) When Shiro took the step of usurping the Alliance by turning it into the Draconis Combine, the same kind of "top-down" social engineering which Johann Sebastian O'Reilly imposed to get his "space Rome" was carried out by Shiro in order to turn his ideas of "space Japan" into reality.

It should be noted that there are other groups of Japanese descent in the Inner Sphere, such as on New Kyoto. Even BT-verse Japan itself is arguably closer to modern-day Japan than the "fabricated" culture promoted in the Combine. (Indeed, Japan has been featured in the Terran campaigns highlighted in Jihad Hot Spots: Terra and Historical: Liberation of Terra II. Notably, part of the task force sent to Japan in the Jihad-era campaign was from the DCMS... and they were not popular among the locals.)


I suppose it's only natural that the Combine would draw the most attention (and controversy) in terms of what it may say about future editions of past or present Earth cultures; not least since the Dracs are the most overt of the Successor States in terms of promoting their cultural conceitscredentials. But while they certainly cast a long shadow across the Inner Sphere, they do not have the last word on what constitutes "future Japan" in the BattleTech universe.

Edited by Nerroth, 01 May 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Sephlock]

Nerroth, on 01 May 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

I wouldn't be the first to try and excuse all of FASA and Catalyst's ideas regarding various Terran cultures, be it in BattleTech or Shadowrun. (Bring from Ireland originally, I can't say I'd be a hundred percent sure about some of the portrayals of Tír na nÓg.)

[Nerroth]

There's probably more merchandise for Lancer (and Zero Lancer) in Japan than there is for their actual mythological counterparts in Ireland itself.

(The Republic could do a better job when it comes to managing or promoting the country's pre-modern heritage.)

[Sephlock]

Nerroth, on 14 June 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

There's probably more merchandise for Lancer (and Zero Lancer) in Japan than there is for their actual mythological counterparts in Ireland itself.

(The Republic could do a better job when it comes to managing or promoting the country's pre-modern heritage.)

My question is, why do the Lancers get such a raw deal in every medium? Is it part of their Platonic essence to suck and die ?

[Hayashi]

Sephlock, on 17 June 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

My question is, why do the Lancers get such a raw deal in every medium? Is it part of their Platonic essence to suck and die ?

Have you ever heard of the term 'the luck of the Irish'?

[Sephlock]

Hayashi, on 19 June 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Have you ever heard of the term 'the luck of the Irish'?

I thought that meant GOOD luck .

[Hayashi]

No, not really. The Irish are a spectacularly unlucky race in history.

Not sure if #badluckbrian is Irish.

[Gumon Choji]

I find all that all groups are gaming logic social groups. The idea was to have people be able to choose their favorite feudal government style and fight. This was to avoid current politics and caused by the 80's new world of acknowledged globalization. It is also impossible to take Katrina as an insult as Btech started as a love letter to Japan and the mecha culture. I have the old box and this is the most loved mech in the game.
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10079873
If there is any doubt look at where the most recent money maker is from. I know I dropped 80 bucks to get a battle master.
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10188523
Again Japan love. Misguided and sometimes offensive, but love none the less.

[Raiyuken]

Let me reiterate some things. YLW was incorrectly portrayed in MWO, as it is a Liao designed mech and has nothing to do with Kurita/Draconis even the name Yen Lo Wang is of Mandarin origin.

If memory serves Kurita was based off the inspiration of this RL person:
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Takeo_Kurita

It was a Western attempt to put Japan in better light to it's reader but didn't quite turn out well being how the first and main character Shiro Kurita turn out to be a reverse of Takeo Kurita's personality.

[_____]

Helmstif, on 04 April 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Well, still better than House Liao I guess...in my whole life I've had the chance to meet less than five people who actually has a family name "廖" :/

Definitely rare but here's a good example - http://www.tomshardw...ablo,11610.html

[Eglar]

Helmstif, on 04 April 2013 - 10:43 PM, said:

Well, still better than House Liao I guess...in my whole life I've had the chance to meet less than five people who actually has a family name "廖" :/

I currently work in china and 5 of the 15-man engineering team I've got over here have the family name Liao, "辽“