27 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Khobai, on 05 November 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

I think the focusing nerf should apply to ALL weapons

all weapons should do less damage if youre not locked on the target

its dumb to single out lasers...

It would certainly be the most balanced way to go about it, although it really would be nerfwarrior online at that point.

[Khobai]

Quote

It would certainly be the most balanced way to go about it, although it really would be nerfwarrior online at that point.

a major TTK buff like that isnt entirely unwarranted though

TTK is pretty pathetic now

[Deathlike]

Just a thought...

Only THIS GAME invented "extended range"... range that is beyond the weapon's specified range (max range is what PGI invented, "optimal range" is what we're mostly used to firing most stuff at). Optimal range is fine AS IS, but the ability to shoot beyond that has caused Clan ERMeds, IS Large Lasers and other mid-range lasers to do far more than necessary (indirectly lending to the need to reduce the max range on CERMeds on the PTS).

An previous example is when the AC20 was compared more favorably than Gauss @ times... when ballistics had TRIPLE the max range. People were firing AC20s beyond 400m as if it were a Gauss Rifle. The math actually kinda agreed with the AC20s until max range got nerfed (people decrying it didn't really complain post-nerf, as most weapon fights occur @ midrange - where optimal range was sufficient).

Then again, optimal range still doesn't help weapons that should normally benefit from it (LBX - due to spread, MGs - with their terribad COF design, SRMs @ their current speed).

The fact in the need to nerf lasers as an entire class is the most backwards idea ever. If the silly change affected max range instead of optimal range, noone would give a damn.

Still.. the balance master has decreed otherwise.

Edited by Deathlike, 05 November 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[cSand]

What if you just got rid of max range? 0 damage after optimal range.

[Mawai]

pwnface, on 05 November 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

It would certainly be the most balanced way to go about it, although it really would be nerfwarrior online at that point.

LOL, As long as the weapons are balanced with each other then there is no such thing as "nerfwarrior" ... the reason lasers need adjusting is because they are TOO effective at the moment compared to other weapons. Whether you like the change or not, there is little argument that something needs to be changed. PGI has two choices buff every other weapon to match lasers and reduce TTK even farther or apply some sort of nerf to lasers.

Personally, I like the optimal damage at range requiring targeting idea. The reduction in damage at the base optimal range against an untargeted mech is 28% ... falling to zero at 60% of the optimal range. So a medium laser does 3.6 at 270m rather than 5.0 against an untargeted mech. (Paul fails at math in his figure on the topic ... either that or whoever gave him the figure fails at math).

The effect of the nerf will be either do a little less damage, press R to target (thus giving some meaning to information warfare) or close the range to engage. I don't think increased TTK, increasing the importance of targeting or encouraging folks to reduce engagement range are bad.

Finally, weapon balance changes have happened so many times since the game was released to open beta (and before that) ... that the optimal choice of weapons just shifts around ... are folks afraid of change? I'd like to see PGI make more frequent changes in the interest of getting better balance data on a range of changes ... the game might be a lot farther along in the balance process that way.

[sycocys]

sycocys, on 05 November 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

People are to used to what it's been for years and it wasn't really explained well - but Russ's statement about it explains their vision of what it is doing better. Paul didn't do a great job of explaining it, but their concept is starting to come together bit by bit.

Its not reducing damage.
The mechanic is reducing the base range, and giving you more range on a targeted mech.
Basically just a function to reduce the long range hitscan vomit unless you work as a team, then its mostly unchanged.

New min range at 60% blanket probably should have been tweaked some for the individual laser sizes for this pass, but maybe they just wanted to get more of the functions and weapon changes injected before focusing on tweaking this out.

I don't mind it so much myself, just requires more planning in approaching combat. Might take a bit to really adapt to but won't take long and most players will have their styles adjusted and be using to really create some chaos.
---
And yes, I do feel like I'm going crazy actually being able to translate something that Russ stated.

Just too lazy atm to retype all that. Basically its a range reduction for all lasers with a dynamic buff for actually using the targeting system. Paul just didn't explain it very well.

[WarZ]

How about just letting it affect effect past optimal range only. No effect to optimal range, significant reduction to extended.

[Bobzilla]

Light snipers will be ez mode tho.