For MWO each has its own "flavor" and PGI is going through a process to make the mechs more comparable since MWO is not setup for asymmetric warfare (Clan's Star+1-2 Points(5+1or2) vs IS Company(12)). Each side has its strengths and weaknesses but the Clans currently have the best overall mechs for a variety of reasons. Where as the IS mechs that shine on the production server do so primarily due to their currently associated quirks.
People, regardless of faction, are able to drop together using IS or Clan mechs in the solo/group queue, but in the CW queue, depending on your faction, it is Clan vs IS, IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan, depending on the planet's ownership and its opposing faction. So for the CW, Clan faction can only use Clan mechs, IS can only use IS mechs.
So for the public queue, I am in the 9th Sword of the Dragon in the DCMS, Draconis Combined Mustered Soldiery of the Draconis Combine, ruled by the House Kurita. For the solo queue it really does not matter, so I run either Clan or IS mechs, with IS having more variety though underwhelming chassis, but I am a glutton for punishment and like to see how far I can put things.
For the group queue, you will tend to see more unit focused or faction focused drops than not. And it can and is still a mix of Clan and IS mechs.
For the CW queue, as I am currently aligned with House Kurita, I use IS mechs, but only a select few, due to that most of the other IS mechs, regardless how they are played, do not hold up as well in the CW vs Clan mechs. On defense it can be made up of any of the minor factions of a major faction... that is on defense vs Clans assaulting, defense can be made up of Liao/Marik/Kurita/Davion/Steiner. But on actual assaults where the IS is attacking a Clan held world, only 1 minor faction can attack. In my example only House Kurita can attacking a neighboring world held by Clan Smoke Jaguar. It is the same for the Clan side, defense can be any/all of the Clans but Clan vs Clan, the attacker can only be one Clan.
Edited by Tarl Cabot, 08 November 2015 - 08:43 AM.
Source Mystic, on 08 November 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:
1)What I am looking for is the ideology of clan vs that ofthe inner sphere.
2)Also strenths and weekness of both types of mechs
3)Lastley do people in general choose clan or inner sphere mechs only and just take one side
4)third is there limitations to who i can fight if i have a clan or inner sphere mech .....if i have a clan and my friend has a inner sphere mech can we still play on the same team ???
5)lastley what play styles are better for clan tatics and what are better for inner sphere. thanks
1) none of this has anything to do with MWO except being the setting in which it is set, but here is a brief outline
The Clans were the Star League defense force, who were lead from the the Inner Sphere almost 300 years ago by General Kerensky, after some internal struggles and Kerensky's death his son took command and reorganized the people into 19 Clans, each named after an animal, and instituted a cast system for each Clan, including workers, traders, technicians, scientists and warriors, general people are born into there cast and unless they are exceptional or insufficiently skilled they will remain with that cast.
the Warriors lead the cast and most are genetically engineered from the DNA of 2 past warriors, most Clans are primarily interested in honorable 1v1 combat (something which is rare in MWO), if another Clan has something or someone you or your Clan wants you can fight a trial of possession, whereby you each bid down to the minimum number of resources to take something, this is to avoid waste, you then fight with the resources you committed.
the Clans are split by ideological belief between thinking it is there destiny to protect the Inner Sphere from internal threats by conquering (crusader) them or to protect them from external threats and that they should not return to the IS (warden)
Smoke Jaguar and Jade Falcon are mostly Crusaders, while Wolf and Ghost Bear are mostly Wardens.
the Inner Sphere are a collection of great houses, think Europe during the Dark Ages, there are 5 noble houses controlling the vast majority of the IS, each have drastically different ideological beliefs, during the time since the SLDF left the IS and became the Clans there have been a series of "Succession Wars" to decide who should take over as lord of the Star League, those wars have been extremely destructive, laying waste to industry so in many cases technology has been lost, meaning the IS has technologically regressed over the last 300 years while the Clans kept progressing, 30 years ago producing new Mech factories was beyone the understanding of the Inner Sphere, so the factories producing Mechs were completely automated and if they brake the factory cannot be repaired, new Mechs were produced at a rate of maybe a few hundred a year, many Mechs in service had been passed down in a family or unit for centuries.
the last 30 years some LostTek has been recovered
for more information look on http://www.sarna.net the battletech wiki
2) Clan Mechs have longer range weapons at the cost of higher heat and longer discharge times, Clan XL (eXtra Light) engines are better than IS XLs, on an Inner Sphere XL engine if you loose one side you are dead, with a Clan XL you can survive loosing 1 side.
all Clan Mechs currently available are Omnimechs, giving you far more flexibility when it comes to weapons loadout at the expense of customization to the basic configuration, IS Battlemechs on the other hand allow you to change things like the engine type/size, structure, armor and heatsink type and have no locked equipment.
Omnimechs have a higher initial purchase price to Battlemechs but are cheep to outfit, Battlemechs have a low initial purchase price but can be very expensive to outfit, so price to fully outfir a Battlemech is usualy about equil to an Omnimech, however as you can swop engines between Battlemechs and an XL engine is really expensive (3-6 million cbills more expensive than some Light and Medium Mechs are to purchase) by sharing engines a Battlemech will usualy work out a lot cheaper if you buy 3 to elite it.
Clans will get Battlemechs in December, I do not know when the IS will start getting Omnimechs
3) depends on the person, if you are focused on Community warfare then choose a side and stick with it until you are setup for CW as you cannot mix and match Mechs from Clan and IS, most players who stick around for a while will eventually have both
4) in the solo or group queue you can fight in a mixed Clan/IS team, however in CW if you pick Clan you will only be able to use Clan Mechs if you pick IS you will only be able to use IS Mechs and you can fight any other faction with a shared border or if there is a Clan vs IS fight happening you can participate regardless of where it is in relation to your factions border.
5) there are Mechs suited to all playstyles on both sides, Clan Mechs tend to be faster than IS Mechs of the same tonnage (notable exceptions, Dire Wolf and most Lights, IS Mechs are more able to sustain rate of fire due to cooler weapons (provided you get the 1.5 million DHS upgrade) and performance and handling can be modified by changing engine
Edited by Rogue Jedi, 08 November 2015 - 12:28 PM.
Clan mechs are better overall, but there are a few inner sphere mechs that are better for a specific task. PGI seems to bow to clan players and create clan mechs that are better for even these specific roles. Sometimes they nerf the IS mechs to further ensure clan mechs maintain their op status. Recently, they have gone so far as to break the suspension of disbelief barrier with ideas like lasers with ranges tied to target locks, and surely bullets will not fly as far due to a target lock requirement.
This brings me to a major reason clan mechs are superior, ecm.
Many good clan mechs have ecm, making them basically invisible to missle lock and target calling by opponents. Inner Sphere mechs with ecm are mostly uncompetitive. This leaves the inner sphere teams vulnerable to missles and players are more often focus fired by the entire enemy team. This seems to be the point of the proposed "information warfare" system, to expand the clan advantage.
The result of all this is that clan players are able to buy mechs to compete while inner sphere players must rely on tactics, luck and skill. Competitive teams are more often clan because players who get beaten often just leave, so every advantage must be pressed.Some clan factions under perform, but mostly because players rely too much upon the mech.
Edited by MechregSurn, 08 November 2015 - 09:35 AM.
I played pretty much every trial mech when I started and I just didnt like the clan mechs. If I tried to do real damage, I overheated quickly. I did better with IS mechs and liked the feel. I ended up buying an IS assault (BNC-3M) for my first mech because I liked the toughness of it and the short burn and power of the pulse lasers. I did not like the heat buildup of the clan mechs.
Everything I have read says the clans are better but maybe it just depends on the pilots. I am new though so my opinion/observations means squat.
ive only been playing for little over a month, but i played a lot in that time.
the first mech i bought was a clan SCR cause i played the tabletop and thought clans to have superior tech. little did i know that you can, for instance, only shoot 2 large lasers as opposed to 3 for IS without incurring a heat penalty, and that clan lasers generally have longer beam duration. all in all, i think clans still have an edge over IS but from what ive seen so far, it is not as big as the forums will make you believe. at least not until you get very, very good, which will likely take many weeks. when you start with an omni and want to grind out 3 without spending cash for premium time, etc. its a huge pain. its true that upgrading IS mechs is expensive but when you plan ahead a little, at least you can re-use the engine often and put it into another chassis when you want to mix things up (and lets face it - things WILL get boring. just do the math..how much cash can you earn per hour as a starter? maybe 500k? compare that to what one clan mech will set you back and that you might want three).
interestingly, my few cw games for IS were much closer than the ones i made for clans. it might be coincidence but it might have to do with the fact that a lot of PUGs will bolster their deck with trials and, as was mentioned above, the clan trials suck enormously, whereas the champion variants are rather decent. and yes, in my clan pugs there were usually about 3 people who would pop GAR, IFR, MLX or KTX primes, mechs that strike fear in the heart of allies more than enemies unfortunately...
also: as a starter you will probably want to change factions often so that you can earn MECHBAYS - 1 per faction (you can get more from every faction but the second one takes quite some wins). there are more IS factions so that would be another good reason why to buy IS mechs first.
Clan Mechs are on paper better but that does not translate well into the game, there are 2 Clan Mechs which are superior to the nearest IS equivalents, the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow, but excepting those 2 the IS have Mechs which are competitive against every Clan Mech, even the Dire Wolf the most heavily armed Mech in the game is worthless if anything gets behind it
Artemis Ellis, on 08 November 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:
I played pretty much every trial mech when I started and I just didnt like the clan mechs. If I tried to do real damage, I overheated quickly. I did better with IS mechs and liked the feel. I ended up buying an IS assault (BNC-3M) for my first mech because I liked the toughness of it and the short burn and power of the pulse lasers. I did not like the heat buildup of the clan mechs.
Everything I have read says the clans are better but maybe it just depends on the pilots. I am new though so my opinion/observations means squat.
There is a good reason for that, part of it is tied to the current (may be changing though) skills table. One of the major differences between Clan and IS mechs by default: Clan weapons have longer ranges, higher damage but generate more heat and tend to have more hardpoints to equip said weapons. IS weapons are have shorter ranges, lower damage but generate less heat. Most trial IS mechs come with DHS instead of SHS, or your experience would be different.
A primary example is the Clan ERMedium Laser (CERML/1-ton) is closer to the IS's Large Laser (5-ton) on damage/heat than it is to the IS's Medium Laser (1-ton). Few mechs are able to carry several LL due to both weight and heat while they can carry a few more of the medium laser. The difference is that an IS mech has to get closer to its target to do damage, at a slower speed due to having to use standard engine and with fewer weapons. IS can equip the current ISXL engine to free up weight, same with Clan XL, but the current IS XL is a glass statue since the loss of a side torso destroys the mech. On the other side of the coin is that IS mechs tend to have positive quirks that enhances weapon ranges, cooldown, heat generation and duration.
Source Mystic, on 08 November 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:
What I am looking for is the ideology of clan vs that ofthe inner sphere.
1)
Inner Sphere ideology is as complex as world politics. Police, military, monarchies (mostly; few exceptions), working joes, pirates, you name it you'll see it. The Inner Sphere has been enduring constant war since 2872-ish after the Amaris Coup. War only takes a break for temporary treaties to infects planets like a plague. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the very thing destroying world after world is also driving the economy....war.
While the IS canonically in Battletech has inferior tech, the differences in base tech wasn't ~that~ bad, least not as bad as it is in MWO. I blame pilot skill trees for this, however extreme revisions and rebalancing includes the skill tree...and will effectively remove that issue entirely! Woot! In Battletech, the bigger disadvantage for the IS was it took weeks to make changes to the mechs, where the Clan Omnimechs could make changes within hours Of course, the changes made for Battlemechs could literally be everything... where Omnimechs had quick-change parts (not whole limbs, it was more like 'pod space', kind of like removeable car stereo systems where you can take the radio out by pulling on the handle and put it back in by sliding it into place).
But even more so, the issue was in the pilots themselves. Inner Sphere has war-hardened vets with lots of PTSD issues. Clans are genetically enhanced to be smarter, stronger, faster, etc., but have a culture based on strict rules and norms, where even the combat has rules that are watched over and judged by their peers. When it came down to it... The Clans were better at range. Better sight, better equipment, better reflexes. But once the IS got close... Lets just say it is canonically possible to Cartwheel your mech, drop kick things, and slug it out like a street brawler. And to that, a Clanner looking upon this would call that IS pilot a savage animal.
Inner Sphere tactics vary from faction to faction. "The Dragon" aka House Kurita aka The Draconis Combine is a very bushido oriented faction, they would be closer to Clans than anything else and even then... Clans don't like them; it is generally unseemly for a 'Mech to be used for melee combat... yet House Kurita loves mech-mounted swords more than any other faction.
House Liao aka Capellan Confederation is very "cloak and dagger" in its offense, send in ninjas to sabotage and elites to take it over...and in defense they'll throw civilians into the fray with an almost Stalin mentality of everyone fights, guns in the hands of children and the elderly and if a mech or tank goes down, remove the corpses and get it running again! (General Confederation forces are undertrained and the 'everyone fights' mentality would make a battlefield against a Capellan planet look like a battlefield plagued with zombie tanks and mechs... Machines that have little patchwork repairs going into battle again and again and again and again, soon as you take a mech down by killing the pilot, you might step by and find the mech blasting you from behind with that former pilot's wife at the helm. Do it again, and his children or anybody close enough to climb in next will have it up in minutes. As such the battlefields were often littered with mechs crawling by their arms after losing their legs...)
Steiner (Lyran Commonwealth) has the stigma of being filthy rich...though this is usually due to the fact that Steiner officers buy their positions rather than earn them. The Steiner scout lance jokingly is four Atlases. In reality it is usually comprised of Commandos...commanded by an Atlas.
Davion's biggest trait that I know of is (in addition to being the closest thing to the US in terms of ideology, despite being mostly French; House Marik being closer to US politically)...their love of autocannons.
Of extreme interest is House Marik. Best technology (since in the 200 years of war, these guys....sat on the side and watched) of the IS; every "M" variant in MWO is a Marik design...as you may note almost always XL engines, DHS, etc. Best of the best. But so tied with democratic red tape that they can't even wipe their own rear end without the proper form signed in triplicate, lost, found, buried under 3 feet of sediment, excavated, inquired, re-inquired, put for board review then finally stamped and either returned or thrown over the left shoulder into the nearby waste bin of a beurocrat with a sour disposition after his coffee had a single speck of grounds in it.
Inner Sphere mercenary Rhona Snord from Snord's Irregulars -- On left. The Pilot of Highlander Hero mech: "Heavy Metal"
Random Inner Sphere mercenaries.
Clan ideology is essentially Star Trek Klingons with a dash of classic Romulan suspicion and super-human strength and cunning as per Khan on the second Star Trek remake movie. If the Clans aren't busy issuing challenges to claim territory, then they are busy killing each other in the name of sport, honor, pride, respect, or to gain status.
An example of defeating a superior officer as a matter of gaining respect, after a True-Born (vat-born) is considered to have been interacting too closely with inferior "Free-born" (natural-birth).
An example of duking it out as a matter of pride (Mechwarrior states that Elemental infantry are nothing more than a nuisance, and the big guy takes exception to that.) (Strange, when the IS are the savage lawless animals; then again this sort of thing and all Clan combat has strict rules).
You really did a great job of explaining that Mr. Koniving. The only mech I own is the BNC-3"M". I had no clue about the variant letter. Maybe you just helped me pick my first faction to sign with.
Artemis Ellis, on 08 November 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:
You really did a great job of explaining that Mr. Koniving. The only mech I own is the BNC-3"M". I had no clue about the variant letter. Maybe you just helped me pick my first faction to sign with.
Banshee 3M, despite not having the awesome stuffs... has this written for it. BNC-3M The 3M was the first attempt to truly alter the original Banshee and increase its raw firepower. Produced by the Free Worlds League the 3M replaced the Autocannon/5 with a second PPC and installed two Medium Lasers. While this does increase the firepower of the 'Mech, it puts an incredible heat burden on the machine as well. Banshees are known in the source material as kinda weak in the weapons department, but their speed and armor allowed them to get in close and pulverize opponents with their fists; something that assaults rarely get to do within any decent amount of time. Also -- if you look closely after changing its colors from the olive green... it's got a smiley pumpkin-like face and sunglasses. Deal with it.
My joke build banshee.
Edit: Free Worlds League = House Marik.
It reminds me of a hockey helmet with visor and a big fanged smile sayin, "I wish I could do melee on this game so I could hammer squish some Arctic Cheetahs!"
You did alot of damage in that game. I have never broken 900 with mine. Best ever for me 4 kills 6 assists 896 damage.
Edited by Artemis Ellis, 09 November 2015 - 02:05 PM.
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