24 replies to this topic

[Fire for Effect]

the good:
the absurd PGI abominations such as the Dragon 1N or Grid Iron have been culled.
the quirks seem generally not totally random anymore but more useful and been given with at least some thought instead of grabbing randomly into the scrabble bag.

-LBX Ammo change is ok

-Gauss CD increase is in my opinion not a good idea, instead half damage half CD and double ammo per ton.

-LRM changes are inconsequential

-SRM changes seem useful and overdue

-Clan XL "power" reduction after losing the side torso
generally the idea is good but why do not go with the only thing that actually hurts?
simply void 5 internal heat sinks, nothing more is needed.



the bad:
-Mobility nerfs across the board we do not know what PGI wants to archive with the rebalancing but I assume it is a longer time to kill.

Mobility does keep you alive; so nerfing this SHORTENS time to kill. Of course for new players who have not had the bright idea of torso twisting yet, this is a non issue they get killed just as fast, for new or bad players mobility is unimpartant.

Experienced players will suffer a much much shorter time to be killed and on top:
light players will not feel any of these mobility changes
medium players will see there is something different but its not an issue
heavy players will see its annoying and lowers their live exspectancy significantly
assault players see in "the ugly" part

Also since IS machines have generally smaller engines, this is
A GENERAL AND MASSIVE NERF for all IS Heavies and Assaults, one sided and unwarrented.


-Structure buffs across the board, this will only result in many empty worthless sticks running around, time to kill has been increased but that mech is completely inconsequential for the outcome of the match,


-Still absurd quirks on mechs that can not utilize the weapon being pushed such as ultra quirks for mechs that are unable to carry more than one ultra cannon.


- the basic thought of PGI that durability has any value against damage.
Only damage kills enemy mechs. If you cannot deal damage your durability is inconsequential.

Especially laughable is the announcement of PGI that "an atlas is now a force to be recconded with" (or something like that was said). no it is not since hardpoints and possible weapon loadouts are simply still inediquate and the far to low mobility and the already slow atlas has AGAIN been nerfed in the speed and mobility department. that will result in any atlas being blown to bits before it can even dream of actually using its brawl weaponry.
Not to mention the absurdly lowered mobility resulting in it not being able to twist properly and being easily killed by any mediums and lights.


-Heat sink changes, it is very unlikely to be any good for the IS side since it will ultimately result in Clan mechs, once these are hot, firing even more per minute... unlikely to yield the results that PGI is looking for...



the ugly:
We do not know what the actual goal was of PGIs design decision again I assume it was to increase time to kill but....

-Massive Reduction of mobility in Skill tree will result in total elimination of Assaults from the game.
Even a mediocre Medium player can indefinitely stay in the back of most assaults and kill these easily. Assaults, already hard pressed, losing masively in the already extremely limited mobility department will result in noone wanting to play these.
Is it a wise decision to make your most expansive machines worthless PGI?

- Also it seems your speed calculator is broken. Already slow assaults are EVEN slower on PTS4 built.

-ballistic and PPC velocity quirks
are you serious? different speeds and leading points for every mech???
at least add a button that people who do want the same leading for each weapon for every mech that disables that velocity non-sense.

-ECM radius halfed..
have you checked you maths? you QUARTERED the ECM area with that change.... the result will likely be Lurmpocalypse 5.0

[Weeny Machine]

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

-LRM changes are inconsequential

-SRM changes seem useful and overdue

I think the lock mechanic needs to be revised. Both, LRM and SRM, are feast or famine. Sometimes LRMs dominate, sometimes they are a total waste. The same goes for SRMs totally over the top vs lights...suckage vs heavy and assaults. That is no balance, that is just terrible

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

-Clan XL "power" reduction after losing the side torso
generally the idea is good but why do not go with the only thing that actually hurts?
simply void 5 internal heat sinks, nothing more is needed.

I think it is a start to work from. Further limitations can still be added.

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

the bad:
-Mobility nerfs across the board we do not know what PGI wants to archive with the rebalancing but I assume it is a longer time to kill.

My bet is to get hitreg working...

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

Mobility does keep you alive; so nerfing this SHORTENS time to kill. Of course for new players who have not had the bright idea of torso twisting yet, this is a non issue they get killed just as fast, for new or bad players mobility is unimpartant.
Experienced players will suffer a much much shorter time to be killed and on top:

I was wondering about that as well. However, as I said above: hitreg.

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

light players will not feel any of these mobility changes
medium players will see there is something different but its not an issue
heavy players will see its annoying and lowers their live exspectancy significantly
assault players see in "the ugly" part
Also since IS machines have generally smaller engines, this is
A GENERAL AND MASSIVE NERF for all IS Heavies and Assaults, one sided and unwarrented.

Do you even play light mechs? 10% of a higher number is more km/h. I feel it even when I play a 142 km/h or a 150 km/h light mech.
Some heavies were insanely moile for their weight and firepower and there was no way in hell a light mech could stay for a meaningful time out of their firing arch.

There was also maths done about the twisting of some assaults. A KC was able to fire in their rear arch within 1,5 sec.
Heavies and (some) assaults were just too nimble.

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

-ECM radius halfed..
have you checked you maths? you QUARTERED the ECM area with that change.... the result will likely be Lurmpocalypse 5.0

I think so, too. However, ECM was/is no solution for the lock mechanic which is the root of the problem.


As for the laser meta. I doubt it will go. Simply because velocity weapons are still no long range weapons. The baseline velocity should just be increased not some weird quirks on some mechs.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 20 November 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

light players will not feel any of these mobility changes

Yeah you lost ALL credibility right here

Light Mechs were hit the hardest on the agility nerfs very few exceptions on the heavies, especially the Speed Tweak Nerf.... Simple law of percentages :>

Edited by Darian DelFord, 20 November 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Fire for Effect]

Darian DelFord, on 20 November 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

Yeah you lost ALL credibility right here

Light Mechs were hit the hardest on the agility nerfs very few exceptions on the heavies, especially the Speed Tweak Nerf.... Simple law of percentages :>

Lights are hardly touched.

Do you feel the changes?
you will not feel the mobility stuff you are just as nimble as before and your loss of a few km/h is rather inconsequential,
(spider 5V 166,3 vs 162,5 thats not even 4 km/h) compared to most heavier mechs being completely unable to keep even mediocre light and medium pilots from their back.

[Weeny Machine]

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Lights are hardly touched.

Do you feel the changes?
you will not feel the mobility stuff you are just as nimble as before and your loss of a few km/h is rather inconsequential,
(spider 5V 166,3 vs 162,5 thats not even 4 km/h) compared to most heavier mechs being completely unable to keep even mediocre light and medium pilots from their back.

Some lights feel really "spongy" now when you try to circle and enemy. However, this is surly not just not only because of the speed but also because of the quirks etc.

For a brawler this is an issue

[Fire for Effect]

Bush Hopper, on 20 November 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Some lights feel really "spongy" now when you try to circle and enemy. However, this is surly not just not only because of the speed but also because of the quirks etc.

For a brawler this is an issue

spongy? you mean it feels as if you run through water?

I have tested with a spider and a cheater and I felt no change you could properly circle and evade just as in live.

[cazidin]

I'm fine with the changes to mobility quirks... except speed tweak. Either make it 5% or keep It at 10% and buff engines appropriately. IMO.

[Darian DelFord]

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Lights are hardly touched.

Do you feel the changes?
you will not feel the mobility stuff you are just as nimble as before and your loss of a few km/h is rather inconsequential,
(spider 5V 166,3 vs 162,5 thats not even 4 km/h) compared to most heavier mechs being completely unable to keep even mediocre light and medium pilots from their back.

Ummm go pilot some more light mechs. And apparently you do not understand the law of percentages as it applies to high's vs lows.

Those of us who live in light mechs feel the pinch, alot.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 20 November 2015 - 05:17 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Bush Hopper, on 20 November 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Some lights feel really "spongy" now when you try to circle and enemy. However, this is surly not just not only because of the speed but also because of the quirks etc.

For a brawler this is an issue

The problem is not cirlcing the enemy. The problem is taying behind them. Most of the heaves and a few of the assaults its still damn near impossible to so it.

[MechaBattler]

They nerfed the skills. But added more performance quirks to mechs. So across the board performance got nerfed. But individually mechs got different performance buffs.

[Darian DelFord]

MechaBattler, on 20 November 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

They nerfed the skills. But added more performance quirks to mechs. So across the board performance got nerfed. But individually mechs got different performance buffs.

Case in point the Oxide. Only thing that keeps it alive is the structure buffs. However the Accel and decl buff's ain't enough to compensate. Even the Jenners got hit.

[Weeny Machine]

Darian DelFord, on 20 November 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

The problem is not cirlcing the enemy. The problem is taying behind them. Most of the heaves and a few of the assaults its still damn near impossible to so it.

Actually I meant that

I also cannot comprehend the whining of some heavy and assault pilots. They throw fits as if it were easy to stay in their backs

Edited by Bush Hopper, 21 November 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

Bush Hopper, on 21 November 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

Actually I meant that

I also cannot comprehend the whining of some heavy and assault pilots. They throw fits as if it were easy to stay in their backs

The problem is, with this being a universal nerf vs a targeted nerf (Heavy and Assault Mechs only) It affects us just as much as it affects them. us more, since usually we have the higher engine ratings in our mechs witht he XL's. However for example the Jenner, only got slight accel and decel agility buff's which don't do squat to stay behind a damn assault

[SirNotlag]

I'm not sure what to think of the agility nerfs. on one hand my light mechs feel like they are trying to run through molasses, but on the other in the live server even the torso weapons on my assault mechs have no trouble keeping pace with all but the utterly fastest mechs.

the heavier mechs definitely needed to be slowed down but the lights seem to be hit too hard at least for my liking, speed and agility was both their offence and defence since they didn't carry large load outs or have much durability. Now I find that they can no longer brawl since they cant circle tight enough and must resort to long range peakaboo builds to get any damage out while remaining relatively safe.

[Darian DelFord]

SirNotlag, on 21 November 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

I'm not sure what to think of the agility nerfs. on one hand my light mechs feel like they are trying to run through molasses, but on the other in the live server even the torso weapons on my assault mechs have no trouble keeping pace with all but the utterly fastest mechs.

the heavier mechs definitely needed to be slowed down but the lights seem to be hit too hard at least for my liking, speed and agility was both their offence and defence since they didn't carry large load outs or have much durability. Now I find that they can no longer brawl since they cant circle tight enough and must resort to long range peakaboo builds to get any damage out while remaining relatively safe.

Unless you are part of the holy trinity of lights, light brawling is dead. You can not circle jerk the assaults, you will die that way. The only way to safely tie up an assault is to stay out of his line of sight. If you has a bead on you, you should die, and I will back that argument all day long. However the problem, is staying out of his firing arc. The heavies and assaults are still to nimble even with the skill tree changes.

[Inkarnus]

would be more interested if that guy(OP) was even on PTS didnt see him once.

Edited by Inkarnus, 22 November 2015 - 10:24 AM.

[JohnnyWayne78]

up

[Hazzimat]

Am I the only one that thinks lights should be easier to kill, not harder to kill? Lights are like the tanks currently on live, and even slower assaults and heavies are like the easy things to kill. I haven't tried the PTS though, so I don't know if it is now easier or harder. Personally, I think lights should be all mobility but easy to kill if you can hit them. Like when I try to pilot a locust, lol.

Edited by Hazzimat, 23 November 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[TheSilken]

Personally Light and Assault pilots should actually be working together on stuff like this instead of opposing each other. To both agility and speed are crucial to their survival, to dodge shots/re-position quickly on Lights, and to keep up with the rest of the team/spread damage on Assaults. Lets pick on the Mediums and Heavies rather than the more difficult classes guys.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Fire for Effect, on 20 November 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

the bad:
-Mobility nerfs across the board we do not know what PGI wants to archive with the rebalancing but I assume it is a longer time to kill.

yeah, we've been on a cycle.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 24 November 2015 - 12:06 PM.