13 replies to this topic

[Duke Nedo]

...with that comes that we keep the amplitude of the quirks. The PTS-post quirk pass looks more consistent, a bit more generic weapon focus and they took the edge of the strongest famous quirks. All in all not a bad quirk pass, though only a quirk pass.

Now, on the bright side: I've always had a ambivalent relation to the quirks. While I though they are a bad balance strategy, some of them did without question turn worthless mechs into charming little one-trick-ponies.

I have to admit though that it makes me a little warm inside that the 1N is still a 1N. The 6R is a 6R and a Huginn is a Huginn and an 8Q is an 8Q. They have been around for so long that they are almost "MWO Lore". I acutally think they add personality to the game somehow.

For the first time in months I'll be prepared to buy cbill mechs again, I have not wanted to buy anything before we knew what the great rebalance would mean... so, that's my bright side of the-great-rebalance-turned-out-to-be-an-ordinary-quirk-pass.

[El Bandito]

Pretty sad that PGI wants to use quirks to balance two sides, instead of bringing the tech level to more even field.

[Darian DelFord]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Pretty sad that PGI wants to use quirks to balance two sides, instead of bringing the tech level to more even field.

Use Skill Tree's to pass out the quirks. This way the pilot's can choose what they want their mech to be.

[Duke Nedo]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Pretty sad that PGI wants to use quirks to balance two sides, instead of bringing the tech level to more even field.

I don't disagree, just trying to see something good in this... and I guess if techs were perfectly balanced and we only got very minor quirks, we would also lose some personality mechs... but I wish they would steer completely off velocity buffs, it's frustrating when your have to lead a PPC on one mech completely differently than on another mech.

[Sarlic]

Did some people honestly didnt expect it would just another quirk pass?

[FupDup]

Duke Nedo, on 15 November 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

I don't disagree, just trying to see something good in this... and I guess if techs were perfectly balanced and we only got very minor quirks, we would also lose some personality mechs... but I wish they would steer completely off velocity buffs, it's frustrating when your have to lead a PPC on one mech completely differently than on another mech.

I don't think it's a bad thing for two mechs to have noticeably different "feel" while playing them. We probably need more distinct-feeling mechs rather than fewer.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I've mentioned this before in my many balance manifestos (that no one ever reads) but whatever.

Fundamentally, the two tech bases need to be separate but equal with each having advantages and disadvantages.

Clan XL should be superior to IS XL in durability, but not as agile and have reduced or no benefit from speed tweak.

STD engines should be superior to clan XL in terms of durability and combat effectiveness after losing a ST.

IS XL should probably get further quirks for speed or agility.

Clan FF and Clan Endo are fine as weight savers.

STD structure should provide a buff to your structure health.

IS Endo should be a a weight saver with some slight agility bonuses making it superior to clan endo in some cases but not all.

IS FF should let you mount the same tonnage of armor as STD armor allowing you to choose between the weight savings of endo and the extra durability of ferro.

STD armor should have the advantage of taking reduced damage from acid warheads (which PGI should add)

[Alan Davion]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Pretty sad that PGI wants to use quirks to balance two sides, instead of bringing the tech level to more even field.

The problem is that even Fasa/WizKids/Who-The-F-Ever had to balance IS and Clan by literally NUKING THE EVER LOVING SHITE out of the game world in order to do it.

For PGI to do that they would basically have to build the game again from scratch, and there's no way in hell that's going to happen.

Honestly the best thing PGI could do would be to make a public apology that they screwed everything up from the beginning, and try to really fix things instead of just throwing on bandaid after bandaid onto a sucking chest wound or a slit throat.

Seriously, MWO is losing blood faster than they can replenish it, and Steam is not going to help things at this point. It will probably only make things even worse.

You think MWO has gotten bad press before? Wait til the gaming news sites start digging into all the negative steam reviews.

It'll be a slaughter.

[cSand]

Alan

the only way to properly balanc this game wouldbe for PGI to refund all the clams, take them out of the game, and set the time to 3025

Done.

Not even the TT battletech, or any other BT game, can balance clans and IS. TI was never meant to be like that. So here, PGI has to do what they can.


Personally I'm happy with the quirk method, it allows for a per-chassis adjustments on both sides. I'll take that over:
- making weapons on both sides the exact same
- ridiclous, convulted mechanics (need locks for lasers anyone? lol)

Quirks keep things simple enough for new players to understand, and allow for a variety of chassis to be used effectively (if done right, which this latest pass IMO is the best yet)

When I think of all the ways they could do IS vs Clan balance.... quirks to me make the most sense

[Davers]

We already know what balancing by quirks does- some mechs become viable, and others don't. Balancing the tech would make far more mechs viable. No quirk equals a Clan XL engine.

[FupDup]

Davers, on 15 November 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

We already know what balancing by quirks does- some mechs become viable, and others don't. Balancing the tech would make far more mechs viable. No quirk equals a Clan XL engine.

Not having quirks also makes some mechs viable and others not viable.

Balancing tech should be done no matter what, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of ze quirks.

[Davers]

FupDup, on 15 November 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Not having quirks also makes some mechs viable and others not viable.

Balancing tech should be done no matter what, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of ze quirks.

I guess it depends on what standard the quirks are being set to. Are the quirks to make bad mechs good, bring bad variants up to par with good variants, level out the playing field within a faction, or to allow IS and Clan to be comparable?

To me it seems like PGI looks at a mech, says "This mech has x and y weapons, so let's give them some quirks related to them. Oh, and players think this mech sux so lets add some extra structure to it too".

I would really like for PGI to explain what exactly the thoughts behind the quirks are. If it is to create parity between IS and Clan, let's have them detail why Griffin X is now comparable to a Stormcrow, or an Orion to a Timberwolf. If they cannot, then the whole reason for quirks has failed, has it not?

But I guess if it was just to throw out a bunch of random numbers at IS mechs, then I guess it succeeded.

[ZenFool]

Really now? PGI has the best balance ever achieved in a mech game with clans. The problem with that is in the way they went about it. You don't see clan autocannons or ppc on a real build. On the IS side you never see streaks, ac2,ac10. Neither side uses flamers, mgs, srms, lrms, ams.

This balance pass seems to address srms(speed quirks), lrms/ams(new reduced fat jesus), and even addresses the autocannon/ppc issue by NERFing laser range and quass cooldown. We kept saying we didn't want power creep, they delivered.

The only thing that bothers me is the massive reduction in skill based agility. They added it back for some mechs, not so much for others. I always wanted a true skill list and this seems like a scale back on the way to the junk heap to me...

Oh, and some of the mech quirks are still very bizarre. They put a hurt on that "loyalty" cicada, which is Morisette levels of ironic, don't cha think?

[MischiefSC]

Looks like they gave up on balance in a real sense. We really left nothing to chance, quirks will never "balance" the mechs or tech but it's what people are used to now so it's all we get.

Edited by MischiefSC, 15 November 2015 - 04:37 PM.