10 replies to this topic

[aRottenKomquat]

Been a MechWarrior fan since MW2:Mercs which I played like crazy as a kid. Lately I've been playing some MegaMek with friends and I just bought the BattleTech introductory box set (haven't received it yet).

I'd like to start a non-canon merc unit for TT play with friends, but I'm only vaguely familiar with a few of the 'Mechs from MW2:Mercs and of course TT has hundreds if not thousands of 'Mech types and variants. Are there any resources to help select what 'Mechs work together well, or any unofficial rules on how to create balanced Lances?

I usually get mopped in MegaMek (playing the bot) because I don't know how to build a balanced unit. I just do "Create Random Army" so I can check out new 'Mechs. One time I ended up with a bunch of medium-laser boats while the other team got LRMs like crazy and so I was badly damaged by the time I engaged. The next game I gave myself a Catapult, an Atlas, and a Hunchback so I'd have decent medium-long range weapons, and then the random map I played on was almost all forest and most of my weapons were not that helpful.

Ideally my unit would have 3 - 4 lances total, i.e. an Assault/Support lance with assault mechs and LRMs, a scout lance, and a couple well-balanced lances for mixed duty. The well-balanced lances would probably be what I use most of the time, unless we actually end up with enough free time to bring everything in for one epic battle. Really I just need tips/hints on selecting 'Mechs.

Edited by aRottenKomquat, 10 July 2012 - 06:23 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

First there are no rules to create balanced lances...its only experience
Well balanced... there are two ways to handle this:

Balance the weapons: GaussRifle or AC 20 together with LBX or SRMs are really deadly. PPCs work for lighter targets too.
Good Examples for mech-hunters: Night Gyr A, Kodiak, Highlander HGN-734, HatamotoChi, Thug...

Second way: use jack in all trades - a mech that can perform nearly every role on the battlefield. Falconer or Enforcer/Centurion are great examples

However you have a other problem:
You play total random games: You know nothing about your army, you know nothing about your enemy AND you know nothing about the terrain... well and the fourth problem - i tink you don't nothing about the calculations. YOu don't have to be Sun-Tzu to recognize that you have a bad problem with your intel.

My advice - there must be some scenarios in MegaMek - play them first...
Second advice - try to understand modificators for range, cover and movement.
Third advice - you find a player that can explain the game to you (works best)

Fourth advice stay with the forum, or the official battletech forum and ask other players....
well fifth advice buy a rule book - or get you hands on the Quick Start Rules - they are free: http://bg.battletech...Start-Rules.pdf

[Congzilla]

If you have the box set on the way I highly suggest getting Starterbook: Sword & Dragon. It will give you two premade lances and the campaign Warchest rules along with a bunch of scenarios to play out the campaign. From there you move to the full rules in Total Warfare. With that I suggest the Starterbook: Wolf & Blake which will also require Technical Readout 3050.

That will give you two full campaigns to play through and ramps up the rules as you go.

Edited by Congzilla, 10 July 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[Beazle]

My advice would be to use random tables to start.

No merc unit starts out with balanced lances. They have to take what they can get.

Heck, most House units don't even get to pick and choose their mechs.

Honestly it's not much fun if you start out with a super-unit anyway. Having something to work towards is part of the fun of playing an ongoing campaign (as compared to just random battles).

You can work on getting new/better mechs as you learn the game, and then decide for yourself what works well for your playstyle.

I don't want to sound like i'm raggin on you here, but if your getting beat by the MegaMek bot, then you have more problems than just your lance composition. That bot is not very smart.

Edited by Beazle, 18 July 2012 - 03:25 AM.

[aRottenKomquat]

Thanks for the advice guys. Scenario rules would be nice but at this point we're just trying to get the game mechanics and rules down. After a few more games I might see what I can find.

I've learned that complete randomness in MegaMek is a bad idea. Been playing some TT with friends and it's much better, and at least that's still fun when you're getting stomped.

Now I'm just going to do some trial-and-error. We agreed on BV's for our next match and are trying to put some lances together. Hopefully we'll play this weekend and I'll get an idea of what my deficits with the force I selected are so I can adjust for the next game. Next match I'll be playing with a Marauder MAD-3L, Vindicator VND-1R, Centurion CN9-A, and Trebuchet TBT-5N. I think I have a good mix of short, medium, and long-range weapons.

[Exilyth]

As has been suggested, scenario play is probably the best way to get started.

In my opinion, the "DragonHunt" scenario is quite nice.

Playing for Kurita, you get four Dragons, which are leaning more towards Jack of All Trades,
while playing for Davion gives you 2 Jenners (short range) and 2 Marauders (long range).

The map has a ridge running along the west side, which can provide some partial cover. The east side of the map is mostly flat with lots of woods.

While it is quite basic, the scenario provides you with a lot of tactical freedom.

Edited by Exilyth, 18 July 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

To share some experience on 'balanced lances.' And to hear myself talk, er, see myself type?

A lance should, ideally, have a unified theme or role or tactic.

For example: Lets go for a well rounded lance.

First, we need a scout. I generally prefer one with ECM and an Active Probe. But any ~40 ton mech with at least 6/9 movement should do. MASC is nice, but not necessary, and can actually get you in trouble, plus you need to manage heat to make it work best. One of my favorites for this, so far as stock IS mechs go, is the Hussar HSR-200Db (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hussar) - it is a very fast scout and mounts a Large Laser so it has at least some offensive abilities. The Owens is another great scout (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Owens) though the C3 versions (those with C3 computers) I believe are Draconis Combine only.

Now that we have a scout, we have a choice. Do we want a lance that does one thing really well, or one that can react to most situations well enough? In other words, do we want say, a bunch of LRM platforms to rain hell on what our scout finds, or do we want a mix of mechs and roles?

I generally opt for one fire support, one brawler, and one heavy hitter to round out a single lance.

Fire Support generally means LRM's. Archer, Trebuchet, Catapult, etc.

Brawler means "close range heavy weapons." AC/20, LBX/20-AC, SRM's, and/or lots of medium lasers, etc. Hunchback is a great example here, or a Shadow Hawk (some variants, at any rate.)

And "heavy hitter" to me normally means Gauss Rifles, PPC's, and maybe AC/10 or U-AC/5. Marauder, Warhammer, Awesome, Zeus, etc.

---

If playing a single lance vs. single lance game, I'd go with the well rounded lance.

If playing larger engagements, I would have one lance with scout + fire support, one lance with scout + snipers, one lance with medium and heavy brawlers, and one lance of mostly assault heavy hitters. For a well rounded unit overall.

For advanced tactics, look into things like C3 or Narc or the like for indirect missile fire, and then spot with fast movers while keeping your LRM platforms out of sight and guarded by some brawlers.

[Kraven Kor]

And the Sarna site is just awesome for learning about various chassis and technologies.

[Beazle]

Kraven Kor had some good points there.

I would add, however, that i don't think you really need to worry about stuff like ECM and Beagle probes yet. I wouldn't even recomment playing double blind yet.(although MegaMek makes it soooo easy) Those are kinda advanced for a new player,

As far as tactics goes. There are a few basic pointers I tell any new player i meet.

1: Know your dice. Your need to understand the probability curve involved with a 2D6 system. The closer you are towards either end of the curve (2 or 12) the more important each +1 becomes.

2: Know your movement modifiers. With a hex based system you can spend a lot of points moving, without really going anywhere. Try to make sure your looking at the movement chart when your planning your moves. If two mechs both have a move of 6, and one consistently moves 4 hexes (with 2 turns) and one moves 5 (with one turn), the second will avoid a lot more damage over the course of a match.

3: Know your ranges. If you've got LRMs, and your target has PPCs, then try to fight him in that gap where your longer range weapons drop down a range, while his does not. (For this example that would be 19 or more, which is out of range for PPCs, or 13-14, which is Med for LRMs and long for PPCs.) Too many people only look at their own ranges.

4:Respect the power of focused fire. One of the most important parts of multi unit combat is maneuvering in such a way that as many of your units as possible have a good shot on 1 enemy target, while preventing your enemy from doing the same. Plinking away at armor does nothing to hurt your enemies firepower, but if you can hit him hard enough to get some crits, you can limit his movement, blown off weapons, or even get the ever-so-hoped-for ammo explosion. Even if all you do is hit armor, if you can connect with enough shots to force a PSR (20+ points of damage) you can gain a big advantage. A failed PSR is often the first step towards mech destruction.

I could go on (and i'm sure many people here could as well) but those are the most basic 4 in my opinion. Other things like using initiative wisely, terrain (especially buildings) and maneuvering tactics can get much more complicated depending on what units you bring.

Edited by Beazle, 18 July 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Congzilla]

As Kraven said it is all about putting a unit together with something that unifies them. The Lance I am running right now is based on old mechs for the campaign I am doing and goes Grasshopper - Dervish - Enforcer - Locust, or in heavy encounter tracks I'll use my second Grasshopper to replace the locust. The unit theme is they are all jump capable and heavy damage at close range with some long range fire support.

The campaign I am doing allowed me to pick my starting lance ( doing a variation of the Sword & Dragon starterbook) and on the second track I captured a second Grasshopper and a Quickdraw. On that second tract I had rolled the opposition as 3 House heavies and rolled a Quickdraw a Dragon and a Trebuchet. I could only use 3 mechs and went Grasshopper Dervish and Enforcer. I obliterated them, my Dervish had to limp off the field after 2 engine crits that left him unable to fire weapons but he had done his damage in a big way on the Quickdraw.

I am usually the type of ***** that picks mechs based on how they look and figures out how to make them work together later. You can always get lucky that way but by leaning on a mech I didn't like at all as my crutch (the Grasshopper) I have found a style that works very well for the way my mind processes moves in the battle.

Edited by Congzilla, 19 July 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[GrandKlaive]

When my friend first got me into TT we would have battles between each other, maybe four people with a lance each. He set a 250 ton limit, and we could look through the books for any mech as long as the 250 tons were not exceeded. It was fun and helped to get to learn the abililties of the mechs. Because you would change them around each match, or another way was he would have us roll for the mech. First it was a D4 for the weight class, then he counted up the mechs in each class and you would roll a die with that number. If the die had more numbers than the mechs in that class you rerolled until you got one. Just some fun and interesting ways to get quick familairizing games going, or sometimes he get something to offer up as a prize to up the competition level.