35 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Victors and Highlanders.

The poster boys of the repercussions of what happened thanks to Poptart idiocy meeting the Nerfinator. A lot of mechs were hit hard.... but these two were totally emasculated.

Eventually Russ removed the non JJ related nerfs from the VTR (which also could have been removed had they ever intelligently dealt with how to reduce the efficacy of Jump Sniping... of which multiple much less "Nuclear" options had been proposed), though the HGN was still left hanging. But between the lack of it's former jump mobility, and the rise of the Clans and 50+ pt pinpoint alphas.....the VTR has been a second or third class citizen ever since.

This has always made me sad, as I never clung to the EZMode crutch that poptarting USED to be. I loved my VTRs as a mobile brawling and skirmish platform. It used to be the 'Roid Raging Big Brother to the Centy on a Pogostick. Well. It's Pogostick still ain't worth much, but will these agility and toughness buffs allow it to compete, again?

VTR-9B
AC/20 Cooldown +5%
Ballistic Cooldown +10%
Ballistic Velocity +15%
Laser Duration -10%
Accel +50%
Decel +50%
Turn Speed +35%
Torso Yaw Speed +40%
Torso Yaw Angle +15
Add Struc L/R Leg +17

VTR-9K
Gauss Cooldown +5%
Ballistic Cooldown +5%
Energy Cooldown +10%
Laser Duration -5%
Accel +40%
Decel +40%
Turn Speed +25%
Torso Yaw Speed +40%
Torso Yaw Angle +15
Add Struc L/R Leg +17

VTR-9S
Ballistic Cooldown +5%
Ballistic Velocity +25%
Ballistic Range +25%
Missile Cooldown +10%
Missile Heat Gen -10%
Missile Velocity +10%
Accel +30%
Decel +30%
Turn Speed +40%
Torso Yaw Speed +40%
Torso Yaw Angle +15
Add Struc L/R Leg +17

VTR-DS
Gauss Cooldown +5%
Ballistic Cooldown +5%
Laser Duration -5%
Missile Cooldown +10%
Missile Velocity +10%
Accel +40%
Decel +40%
Turn Speed +25%
Torso Yaw Speed +40%
Torso Yaw Angle +15
Add Struc L/R Leg +17

(Yes, I am on record as saying mechs in general are too agile. This is in reference to current reality. With Skill Unlocks finally being beat into some semblance of sense, that is being at least partly addressed. Uncoupling Twist from engine size is still something that needs looking at. So obviously I am referring to it's relative agility compared to other mechs on the PTS)

[Sarlic]

Perhaps some JJ (quirk)addition would have been great to bring poptarting with this Assault back.

But overall thing i think it's a suprising nice change.

Edited by Sarlic, 14 November 2015 - 07:33 AM.

[zagibu]

Hard to say. It's still a humanoid mech with brawling hardpoints and few energy slots, so it really depends on if the balance changes have some effect on the current laser spam.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sarlic, on 14 November 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Perhaps some JJ (quirk)addition would have been great to bring poptarting with this Assault back.

But overall thing i think it's a suprising nice change.

I am fine with it not poptarting, as it was always meant for the CQB role, not some jump sniper.

If we want to see JJs unborked again (and I do) we need to focus on other avenues to reduce Poptart efficacy...but that's for a different topic.

[Mister Blastman]

Victor will never be good until they fix SRMs and make them deadly again. The arms are too big and far apart to be worthwhile from afar unless you're running a Dragon Slayer.

[C E Dwyer]

Hard to say, I'm thinking slightly better, but not going to be close to a first line mech, I used mine as an agile brawler, JJ's for jumping over other mechs, not whack a mole play.

Really needs a JJ buff, not crazy enough to make the T1 jump snipers happy, but something, and Armour over structure was really needed, structure is nice but a crit is still a crit, and giving them some ST armour loving for a bit more xl engine security, would have gone a long way to making up for being flat footed for over a year.

We'll see, if the yaw, and the srm buffs make up for it

[El Bandito]

I think the 9S was the winner on the new quirks. It will be a good brawler. Too bad it is still stuck with 10/5/2 missile slot. If PGI had a competent balance team, they would have given it 10/6/6 slots long time ago.

Also, the Dragon Slayers quirk buffs are underwhelming. If only Victors were on as broad as a barn from the front...

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 14 November 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Victor will never be good until they fix SRMs and make them deadly again. The arms are too big and far apart to be worthwhile from afar unless you're running a Dragon Slayer.

look to the PTS4 noted. Very significant reduction to SRM spread. Also the arm spread is really not an issue. People said the same thing back when VTRs were the meta, and I brawled fine with them. For jump sniping, perhaps. For brawling? Nope.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think the 9S was the winner on the new quirks. It will be a good brawler. Too bad it is still stuck with 10/5/2 missile slot. If PGI had a competent balance team, they would have given it 10/6/6 slots long time ago.

Also, the Dragon Slayers quirk buffs are underwhelming. If only Victors were on as broad as a barn from the front...

Was never an issue when you could actually TWIST with them and use one of those massive arms to intercept fire.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cathy, on 14 November 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

Hard to say, I'm thinking slightly better, but not going to be close to a first line mech, I used mine as an agile brawler, JJ's for jumping over other mechs, not whack a mole play.

Really needs a JJ buff, not crazy enough to make the T1 jump snipers happy, but something, and Armour over structure was really needed, structure is nice but a crit is still a crit, and giving them some ST armour loving for a bit more xl engine security, would have gone a long way to making up for being flat footed for over a year.

We'll see, if the yaw, and the srm buffs make up for it

still scratching my head over the whole armor/structure thing, in general. We all know how it should work, and yet, I can still verify that on all my mechs with armor but not structure buffs, the moment that structure is hit, got a 90% chance I'm losing whatever is there. With mechs with structure buffs, I seem to seldom lose weapons, etc, until that section pops, period.

Which is not how it should work. But especially on my poster child for losing parts, the HBK-4G, is demonstrably how it has worked since the quirks were introduced.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I'm glad to see the Victors getting some love. I've loved Victors almost as much and as long as Awesomes.

I'd also love it if they improved the SRM hardpoints on the Victor, especially the 9S. Imagine the loadout of a DDC moving at 80 that can jump. I'd be as happy as a redneck on a tobacco farm.

[Sjorpha]

It could be a pretty damn nice brawler with that improved agility.

[Elizander]

Why are they all more agile than my Pretty Baby?

[Bishop Steiner]

Elizander, on 14 November 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Why are they all more agile than my Pretty Baby?

because the Pretty Baby started life as an Awesome...which is not meant to be an agile mech. The victor is like a rally car, meant to handle... the pretty baby is like taking a pickup truck, and sticking a drag racing engine in it... it still ain't going to be nimble.

[Mister Blastman]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

look to the PTS4 noted. Very significant reduction to SRM spread. Also the arm spread is really not an issue. People said the same thing back when VTRs were the meta, and I brawled fine with them. For jump sniping, perhaps. For brawling? Nope.

They were always second to the HGN--even when I had them maxxed out for brawling. Their hardpoints are so far apart. If convergence were removed... however... those VTR arms would be very useful.

The SRM spread is nice but I think they're playing whack-a-mole. The hitreg issues aren't going away and their damage is still way too low. They should be bold and up damage to 3.0 per missile (non-streak) if they aren't going to put splash back in (for just SRMs).

I remember when VTRs were the "thing" and if I attempted to PUG with them the results were usually abysmal. Not only are the arms too wide but they are also too low. I found myself hitting the dirt often--moreso than a Summoner. The HGN has better clearance (sure it is heavier) but as things are right now I think you're still far better off taking a Battlemaster or even an... Awesome.

And it sucks, because I like the Victor. I own three and I want them to work. But they need more to make them worthwhile.

[Elizander]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

because the Pretty Baby started life as an Awesome...which is not meant to be an agile mech. The victor is like a rally car, meant to handle... the pretty baby is like taking a pickup truck, and sticking a drag racing engine in it... it still ain't going to be nimble.

They should have made that clear in the flavor text.

[Bishop Steiner]

Elizander, on 14 November 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

They should have made that clear in the flavor text.

well, in fairness, the lore describes the pilot's ability to do nimble things in an otherwise clumsy mech... so it should be more nimble than other Awesomes, just not as much as a VTR with is built for knife fighting

[C E Dwyer]

Elizander, on 14 November 2015 - 08:32 AM, said:

Why are they all more agile than my Pretty Baby?

Even an ugly child is beautiful in the eyes of its mother ?

[WarHippy]

Maybe, but I will have to try them out to see for myself. With the reduction in maneuverability in the skill trees the new quirks more or less bring them up to where they are now. A lot of mechs(not all) seem to have received maneuverability buffs to make up for what was lost in the skill trees so I'm not sure what the end result will be.

[Bishop Steiner]

WarHippy, on 14 November 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

Maybe, but I will have to try them out to see for myself. With the reduction in maneuverability in the skill trees the new quirks more or less bring them up to where they are now. A lot of mechs(not all) seem to have received maneuverability buffs to make up for what was lost in the skill trees so I'm not sure what the end result will be.

indeed, though many seem to be much lower percentages, like the Mauler gets a 5% turn (or was it twist?) where one VTR gets 40%, etc. Will definitely be testing that right away in PTS