17 replies to this topic

[vocifer]

Hey fellas!

Let me put some effort into making CW better.

And as you've already read the topic, and are willing to argue, I'd say I understand that ANY restriction will drive players away from nearly dead gamemode. I'll talk about it later, OK?

So here's the idea: Will any commander let the 12 unorganised pilots from different factions to take the mission for defending a planet? I guess - no.
As for now, the worst case scenario is 12 pugs facing a 12-man team (12s vs 12), which is slightly better than a ghost drop (time-wise). There are also pug vs pug matches, which are really fun, but no issue for a com. warfare as a definition.

How do we make CW feel like a real COMMUNITY warfare?

Restriction 1: No more than 6 solo pilots per drop.
This requires some coding which means the chances of pgi implementing this right away are quite low. But we still have those counters at the lobby.
The "dropshipmaker" (©) can start packing the deck starting from player groups till the number of players hits 6 or more, filling it with pugs to 12 and there you go.
The average scenario here would be 6-man group + 6 solo players (6 + 6s) where you start getting a chance to defend against 12-man group.
The worst case scenario will be 2+2+2+6s, which is poor but still a progress.

Restriction 2: Dropship won't leave without a single full lance on board.
This one I like more. But it still requires some coding, unfortunately...
Here you'll start packing from a yellow brick at №4 or more. The worst scenario (and imo the average also) will be 4-man team and 8 solo players (4 + 8s), which is still better than 2+2+2+6s (you have one strong leader) but worse than 6+6s.
It's also applies to the main logic: a strong lance owns a dropship.

Combided restr.1 + restr.2:
Just to see how it will go. Worst scenario 4+2+6s, average 6+6s.

So let's summarize the advantages:
- Lesser diversity of pug/premade configurations, means more chances of competitive matches.
- More contacts of solo players on one side with a grouped ones, means more chances of them to learn better tactics or join a unit.
- Lesser spread between the planets. Solos would be focused on ones, where the groups are dropping.


Now for the disadvantages:
- The restrictions will drive many solo players away from CW, because of long wait times and unable to get a match in dead hours (which imo is okay, those hours are dead anyway...)
- It will make CW more complicated and unintuitive. It may be compensated by ui improvements... but...
- I don't know the real statistics, but I feel like there wont be enough small groups to pick up the huge number of solo players queued. So it'll be up to the devs to figure out the proportion and the limitation numbers. Perhaps, "need at least one group no matter size" limit would be a good one.

And one more thing: there is going to be a 4 vs 4 scouting gamemode, so it might be the one with room for solo players and no restriction. Just thinking...

OK. It's pretty much so far. Thanks for the reading, now take your 7 breaths and make a decision.

[sycocys]

Won't work. Outside of events there's something like 200 CW players total.

[vocifer]

Ain't steam release going to bring us the numbers?

[Davegt27]

With all the tryhards complaining about solo players it be worth a try

[Tarl Cabot]

A lobby/space port/etc (something other than that LFG button). The real issue is the inability to form a semi-temporary co-op group. There is the faction chat but who is really there?

And since they do show the numbers in CW, why not show the number of people actually on the CW screen and the faction they are with? Then add the ability to invite them to a temp co-op unit, or to combine co-op units into a larger co-op unit, especially after a successful drop.

[Mainhunter]

I'm for PUG only matches in CW. I like the non- organized fights, it's far more fun. And I also prefer the maps and the modes above the standard game.

[Duncan Aravain]

Tried the CW event this weekend as part of their promotion and found it to be a method where Clan teams farmed PUG inner sphere individuals for fun and rewards. Many of the matches ended up where the Clan teams didn't destroy the objective, but just hung around in the drop zone spawn areas shooting people before they could react much until they had milked the match for all that they could. If PGI thinks they have developed a fun system for all, they are greatly mistaken. Came back to MWO after a long break hoping for some dramatic improvement; aside from some nice maps (Alpine still needs fixing), it's still one big mess.

I see that BattleTech is in the funding/development stage and they received my monetary support. While PGI also received my financial support, I can only hope the developers for BattleTech can learn from PGI's failures and deliver a better product. I'll probably keep playing off and on in MWO, but there is no way they are going to get another cent with their current product. I'll stay playing EVE Online and support their game; outside of a gate camp in low/null sec, at least I have a fair chance to win.

[Tarl Cabot]

I saw IS pugs doing the same thing to Clan pugs and a few teams, and had it done to us. Communication or the lack of communication was the key, as well as being aggressive when needed. On the loses, the lack of aggressiveness and focusing on the wrong objective (counter attack, going for the generator) did more harm than good as it put the co-op in out of position. For the Clan pugs, those that were herded like cats were in the same shoes as we were when the unit lack focus and tried to play it like it was the regular queue. In among all of that were some serious close matches both ways.

[Kin3ticX]

solos are the only thing keeping CW going

there is a shortage of active units with enough players to form 10-12 mans

[FaithBombCRNA]

And this event is NOT going to draw in players once it ends. If anything, it's reminding most of us how broken it is. This weekend has been some of the least fun/rewarding time I have spent in MWO

[vocifer]

Many people are playing CW just for free mechbays, items and stuff. The population increase during events even proves this: ones will hate and suffer but still go for free stuff.

So add free mc for owning planets and some will start looking for units just because of this. Might change things a bit.

[Khereg]

Game needs fewer restrictions, not more.

[Vajhra]

Pugs aren't the problem, its the mix of putting PUG's against premade teams. I'd probably limit premades to one lance, before I considered limiting PUGers. It would stop the domination of 12 man drops over every other combo, and maybe forcing units to operate in smaller lance sized units would force them to work harder to benefit from that teamwork. Another idea is to limit it to 6 unit members, have 2 in each lance for C2 of the PUGs. Ya know, bringing the benefits of Units to assist the PUGs instead of hating on PUgs and trying to get rid of pUgS.

Edited by Vajhra, 17 November 2015 - 02:57 AM.

[vocifer]

Vajhra, on 17 November 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

Pugs aren't the problem, its the mix of putting PUG's against premade teams. I'd probably limit premades to one lance, before I considered limiting PUGers. It would stop the domination of 12 man drops over every other combo, and maybe forcing units to operate in smaller lance sized units would force them to work harder to benefit from that teamwork. Another idea is to limit it to 6 unit members, have 2 in each lance for C2 of the PUGs. Ya know, bringing the benefits of Units to assist the PUGs instead of hating on PUgs and trying to get rid of pUgS.

Well, that was an approach, which I was thinking of first, but then i figured... Two words: Sync drops, - and the whole theory falls apart.

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

NOT NOW: I would like to BAN all solo drops.
This because CW is a team strat based game 1-2 non helping pugs will let you loose.


Look at how the inner get the Systems.
They drop on 1 spot and all SOLO player go there where the highest population is.
The team formed up are terrible in there strategie or have none.

You can see this with the clanners, they have/had allot of players.
Formed teams and lured all the (solo)opponents there and won the system.

If like in CW solo can only drop against solo this would a smaller problem
Making only lances would clear this.
So only teams in 4-8-12 can drop.

[Ghogiel]

Have you even played CW? I've seen groups worse than pugs lol.

It aint units of groups, its just the skill level is so low across the board it feels like I get to play in T5 with my main account most of the time.

[vocifer]

Ghogiel, on 17 November 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Have you even played CW? I've seen groups worse than pugs lol.

It aint units of groups, its just the skill level is so low across the board it feels like I get to play in T5 with my main account most of the time.

Ofcourse I have not=)

And I totally agree with you, 12 skilled solos will find a way to communicate and be successfull. Still, they shall perform better in a constant group for more then one match.

But it's another topic. Here I'm about to know how much people will agree to limit themselves this way in exchange of more competitive gameplay. The reality is that 12-man group will still choose beating pugs over a ghost drop and solo player will still choose being ripped with premade over the ghost drop or no match at all. Because of those free mechbays, items and mc.

[Ghogiel]

vocifer, on 17 November 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

Ofcourse I have not=)

And I totally agree with you, 12 skilled solos will find a way to communicate and be successfull. Still, they shall perform better in a constant group for more then one match.

But it's another topic. Here I'm about to know how much people will agree to limit themselves this way in exchange of more competitive gameplay. The reality is that 12-man group will still choose beating pugs over a ghost drop and solo player will still choose being ripped with premade over the ghost drop or no match at all. Because of those free mechbays, items and mc.

Well the only thing that would happen is either solo players miraculously stop being lazy and use the LFG function to get into CW matches... or more likely they don't bother. In which case CW is finished since the only major pop to speak of that keeps it afloat is solo players.