16 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Please return the Nova's hit-boxes to their previous state PGI, the side tosos are huge now and come off almost immediately when shielding. Previously the mech spread damage pretty well between the CT and STs when shielding. Now the side torsos soak up all of the punishment and pop off immediately.

The Nova cannot survive with stalker sized side torsos.

[Cylian]

Haven't tried the Nova yet, but sounds like it's similar to the new Jenner and Catapult hit-boxes.
Barely a scratch on the CT, but the sides go off very fast.

Guess the optimal hit-boxes would be halfway between the old and the new ones.

[FurballMK3]

^Yup

[Russ Bullock]

Interesting thing is I have many people telling me that the Catapult is Waaaay better now as well. Others complaining the Hunchback now is terrible when all we did was shrink the cockpit size.

So clearly some of the feedback is personal perception.

The Nova simply has a little more ST going up the nose as we have done with new mechs like the EBJ that has worked well.

We will be discussing today, thanks for your input.

Russ

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Russ Bullock, on 18 November 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

Interesting thing is I have many people telling me that the Catapult is Waaaay better now as well. Others complaining the Hunchback now is terrible when all we did was shrink the cockpit size.

So clearly some of the feedback is personal perception.

The Nova simply has a little more ST going up the nose as we have done with new mechs like the EBJ that has worked well.

We will be discussing today, thanks for your input.

Russ

Here's my guess about where the positive feedback is coming from, at least on the Nova, you did mention on twitter that somebody liked it. People who like it probably don't torso twist very much, and when you don't torso twist to spread damage, the new Nova takes it's lumps pretty well, damage gets spread away from your CT more often.

The problem is that torso twisting is a technique that higher level players use to control where their damage goes. When you do this on the Nova you expose the side of your mech's nose; this nose used to be a healthy balance between the STs and CT, STs being the lower section and the CT the upper section. Now your CT is a nearly unhittable sliver, and your STs comprise nearly all of your side nose making them an easy target. They get torn through like paper now.

It seems whomever redesigned the hitboxes had the Nova's forward profile in mind, but neglected to consider the side profile which is now reeeeally brittle.

I can also confirm Russ, that I've tested these changes in the PUG queue, in 1 v 1 duels, and in a private lobby, shooting at one of my unit mates with a small pulse laser. As someone who plays the Nova 90% of the time and even paid $500 for a golden one, I know my way around this chassis, I remember exactly where the old STs began and ended, and they have increased in size significantly. I've had to front load my armor to the point that i only have 2 points in the back, just to keep my side torso's alive under fire.

Hope your internal discussion proves fruitful.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 18 November 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[FurballMK3]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 18 November 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Here's my guess about where the positive feedback is coming from, at least on the Nova, you did mention on twitter that somebody liked it. People who like it probably don't torso twist very much, and when you don't torso twist to spread damage, the new Nova takes it's lumps pretty well, damage gets spread away from your CT more often.

The problem is that torso twisting is a technique that higher level players use to control where their damage goes. When you do this on the Nova you expose the side of your mech's nose; this nose used to be a healthy balance between the STs and CT, STs being the lower section and the CT the upper section. Now your CT is a nearly unhittable sliver, and your STs comprise nearly all of your side nose making them an easy target. They get torn through like paper now.

It seems whomever redesigned the hitboxes had the Nova's forward profile in mind, but neglected to consider the side profile which is now reeeeally brittle.

I can also confirm Russ, that I've tested these changes in the PUG queue, in 1 v 1 duels, and in a private lobby, shooting at one of my unit mates with a small pulse laser. As someone who plays the Nova 90% of the time and even paid $500 for a golden one, I know my way around this chassis, I remember exactly where the old STs began and ended, and they have increased in size significantly. I've had to front load my armor to the point that i only have 2 points in the back, just to keep my side torso's alive under fire.

Hope your internal discussion proves fruitful.

Jack, you have done a fantastic job explaining this issue. I myself don't pilot Novas, but I have observed very similar results in my Catapults. From straight on the new hitboxes are very forgiving, spreading damage evenly. As soon as any part of the side torso is exposed to the enemy, it's almost guaranteed the armor shielding that area will be lost. Mechs with elongated fuselages need to share some of the side profile with the center torso, or else they are extremely vulnerable.

[Mauricio Gomes]

I am a catapult player, I own a A1 modified to be a splatcat, and a K2.

Also, I am a sort of newbie... and I was wondering what the hell people were talking about when they told me to torso twist, keeping my sights on the target now is obviously much better, the damage spreads a lot, and I can fire faster.

When I torso twist, I instantly die instead (example: one match a guy saw me from the side, on his first alpha strike volley my side torso and arm died, the rest of the mech was completely undamaged).

So I can guess the complaint here form the other guys is valid...

By the way: I could win the training map about torso twist without torso twist, frqquently I noticed the enemy mechs too late, but even when they were in front of me, when they shot they hit my side (this was in my splatcat).

[Kira Onime]

Nova really just needed a size adjustment before anything was done with the hitboxes.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Mauricio Gomes, on 19 November 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

I am a catapult player, I own a A1 modified to be a splatcat, and a K2.

Also, I am a sort of newbie... and I was wondering what the hell people were talking about when they told me to torso twist, keeping my sights on the target now is obviously much better, the damage spreads a lot, and I can fire faster.

When I torso twist, I instantly die instead (example: one match a guy saw me from the side, on his first alpha strike volley my side torso and arm died, the rest of the mech was completely undamaged).

So I can guess the complaint here form the other guys is valid...

By the way: I could win the training map about torso twist without torso twist, frqquently I noticed the enemy mechs too late, but even when they were in front of me, when they shot they hit my side (this was in my splatcat).

I suppose it flew under people's radars, but the Nova wasn't half bad at tanking damage from the side before the update. I've done crazy stuff with it, ie killing TBRs 1 v 1. Luckily Russ anounced on Twitter that the Nova, Jenner, and Catapult were getting a relook at their hitboxes. The Catapult unfortunately is only getting small changes according to Russ.

Kira Onime, on 19 November 2015 - 07:57 AM, said:

Nova really just needed a size adjustment before anything was done with the hitboxes.

It's hitboxes didn't need to be like this regardless of it's size, it's pending rescale will be welcomed though!

[50 50]

Interesting to hear.
Cannot say that I have noticed much of a difference yet, but I have only managed a handful of battles since the patch.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

50 50, on 20 November 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

Interesting to hear.
Cannot say that I have noticed much of a difference yet, but I have only managed a handful of battles since the patch.

Any match that you don't come under heavy fire you'll probably fail to notice it. When you do though, it's quite a substantial change.

[Dick Shipley]

I rarely post but just have to here. With half a million Xp in a nova (my top scoring mech) I can safely say I'm really enjoying the changes. I tend to skirmish with small pulse lasers these days (can't be too careful with all the Cheetos) and am spreading dmg like a champ. Now when I bite it, I'm usually down to my last 3 components. Thanks for making the most underrated mech even better

[Jack Shayu Walker]

**** Shipley, on 23 November 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I rarely post but just have to here. With half a million Xp in a nova (my top scoring mech) I can safely say I'm really enjoying the changes. I tend to skirmish with small pulse lasers these days (can't be too careful with all the Cheetos) and am spreading dmg like a champ. Now when I bite it, I'm usually down to my last 3 components. Thanks for making the most underrated mech even better

I too have about 600K XP with the Nova. The changes have their ups and downs, but for my style of play, and for any style of play that involves heavy torso twisting, these changes do more harm than good.

Nova's cannot shield competently anymore, though they do spread damage better across the front I'll admit. Russ said on twitter that the next round of hitbox changes aim to keep that frontward durability while also returning the Nova's side profile to a healthy balance of side torso and center torso.

So far as I can tell, their idea to reduce size of the side torsos on the sides of the Nova's nose, while simultaneously increasing the size of the side torsos in areas that face directly frontward, ie above the Nova's nose, on the nose cone, between the legs, ect.

[Dick Shipley]

Fair enough. For my style of playing, the hit boxes seem to be spot on. I tend to play rather aggressive though. Usually I'll jump jet next to an enemy, pick a component, quick one two then twist, move toward my exit, spread dmg, quick one two again on the same component & adios. They drop or get neutered and I'm out until the next confrontation of my choosing. If I get torso'd I'm just that much more selective with my confrontations. Half a nova is still pretty dangerous. Still retains full (I think) J J Mobility and a solid punch with a good build. I'll take half a nova later in the match opposed to a nova with a magnetic ct the entire match every day of the week.

Not trying to discredit your point of view, just sharing my opinion/experience

[Jack Shayu Walker]

**** Shipley, on 23 November 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Fair enough. For my style of playing, the hit boxes seem to be spot on. I tend to play rather aggressive though. Usually I'll jump jet next to an enemy, pick a component, quick one two then twist, move toward my exit, spread dmg, quick one two again on the same component & adios. They drop or get neutered and I'm out until the next confrontation of my choosing. If I get torso'd I'm just that much more selective with my confrontations. Half a nova is still pretty dangerous. Still retains full (I think) J J Mobility and a solid punch with a good build. I'll take half a nova later in the match opposed to a nova with a magnetic ct the entire match every day of the week.

Not trying to discredit your point of view, just sharing my opinion/experience

I play in a similar fashion, but the way in which the Nova's hit-boxes were set up previously allowed the Nova to be an even more aggressive fighter, provided it made use of it's excellent torso twist shielding. Twisting to the side spread the damage neatly between a single side torso and the Nova's CT allowing a you to keep your more heavily armed side in working condition until the end of the match. I used to be able to kill meta-Timber Wolves in 1 v 1 brawls simply because I could match their alphas at close range, and put more of those alphas out faster while simultaneously controlling where their damage went better than they could control mine.


Now because of the beefier side torso hitboxes my asymmetrical Nova has hit a snag. If I shield to control my enemies damage, he takes off my less important but still valuable right torso near instantly, but if I don't, although i spread damage better from the front now, my opponent can pick which component he wants to take, and a skilled player will remove my vital left side. IT's just frustrating when I try to play it smart, but the new hitboxes punish me for doing so.

Hopefully this next round of fixes will allow both asymmetrical builds and symmetrical builds to function properly.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 23 November 2015 - 08:51 PM.

[Blood Skar]

I play a Nova a fair bit.
I do agree it tanks really badly - however it has to have some bad to make up for its good.

I boat 12x smalls and 1x streak6, it jump jets really well, pretty fast(ok not the quickest but its faster than some of the other meds). All that and i can still have 19 DHS(including the non removable ones obviously).
It's a mech that can deal with lights and gives a pretty hefty punch to anything within 450m (with all weapon unlocks to sml l of course). I've cored many hvys with the machine gun like 6xsmall laser vomit it can produce...even king crabs (i like to get above assaults and fire down onto them).

Next patch sml max range gets nerfed so this will bring its effectivity down a lot though.

It's width is about the only bad thing about it for a Medium.

Edited by Blood Skar, 24 November 2015 - 01:35 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Blood Skar, on 24 November 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

I play a Nova a fair bit.
I do agree it tanks really badly - however it has to have some bad to make up for its good.

I boat 12x smalls and 1x streak6, it jump jets really well, pretty fast(ok not the quickest but its faster than some of the other meds). All that and i can still have 19 DHS(including the non removable ones obviously).
It's a mech that can deal with lights and gives a pretty hefty punch to anything within 450m (with all weapon unlocks to sml l of course). I've cored many hvys with the machine gun like 6xsmall laser vomit it can produce...even king crabs (i like to get above assaults and fire down onto them).

Next patch sml max range gets nerfed so this will bring its effectivity down a lot though.

It's width is about the only bad thing about it for a Medium.

Nova is debated to be the worst clan medium, contested with the Ice Ferrat. There's nothing about the mech that's overpowered, but I learned to make it work quite well. I'm currently counting the days until the hitbox fix.