19 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

On the live server streak boats eat light mechs alive without even aiming. With the agility and speed reduction for mechs on the PTS, which hit light mechs even harder than others, made the game even worse for lights. Now add the streak buff... honestly, I think 2 SSRM 6 will be enough to totally cancel a light mech out because he cannot risk to get near that opponent - after all the light mech needs also more time to disengage.

Ah well, a lock mechanic in a shooter which negates basically a whole class (or you need to snipe with long range weapons...more peek-a-boo yipiiiii) wasn't terrible enough of a game design it seems.

On the other hand: let's hope that the Streakcrows will eat other weight classes alive as well -without even needing to aim- maybe then the mechanic gets revised.../sigh

Edited by Bush Hopper, 18 November 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Vashramire]

Ya even on live I've been running into a lot a SSRM6 x5+ Stormcrows, Maddogs, and Timberwolves. Literally vaporize me at 35tons and they are only penalized ~3 heat extra for alphaing them. It's even worse on PTS with the changes making them fly faster and cluster even better on tiny targets with less ghost heat. The changes might makes them better at fighting heavier mechs but they basically mean if you streak boat, you get to pick a light and say "you don't get to play today" for basically zero effort.

[Sev Malthus]

It could be a way to balance Streaks for lighter mechs by removing the 100% accuracy. Still have a very high accuracy at all to compensate the lock on mechanic but let it depend on your target size (and speed).

[Darian DelFord]

I am all for Streaks being a hard counter for lights. However reducing our agility and speed hits us harder. Its a simple law of percentages.

My Jenners now feel clunky and in some cases went down 3 to 4 engine sizes from where they are at on live with little to no benefit gained. While I think agility needs to be looked at. The problem is and always has been the Heavies and the Assault mechs are to agile the light mechs are not agile enough. If an assault mech can face his rear in less than 2 seconds there is a problem.

[Maximum Overkill]

What will you get for an advantage of a smaller engine? A bigger engine makes your Jenner more responsive not a smaller...

And don't worry about the lights because the assaults are much harder nerved by the skill tree changes. Compared to live its super easy to core an assault through the back. I would say in an assault vs light match the lights wins about 90% with the pts changes. I don't think this will help the game balance in any way

[ShinVector]

Say the assault pilot who's scared of light mechs...

On topic...

Piloting lights is not for everyone...

[Curccu]

Bush Hopper, on 18 November 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

On the other hand: let's hope that the Streakcrows will eat other weight classes alive as well -without even needing to aim- maybe then the mechanic gets revised.../sigh

They don't and that is why they are balanced. Take a streak boat and you can defeat light mechs (if they fight against you in open areas), but almost every medium/heavy/assault directfire mech in the game can defeat you.

[Weeny Machine]

ShinVector, on 19 November 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

On topic...

Piloting lights is not for everyone...

Sorry, not everyone likes to run away with his tail between his legs and enjoy brawling and not just peek-a-booing.

Curccu, on 19 November 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

They don't and that is why they are balanced. Take a streak boat and you can defeat light mechs (if they fight against you in open areas), but almost every medium/heavy/assault directfire mech in the game can defeat you.

So...just because a guy equips loadout X it should give him an autowin vs basically a whole class (except light snipers)? And you think this is balanced because he has worse chances vs mediums and most likely slim to none vs heavies and assaults?

How about making it rock-paper-scissior then. Just a wild thought...give mediums something which is an auto-win vs heavies, heavies vs assaults etc.
Yup, sounds not fun, right? So why do you think it is fun for light mech pilots

[Jabilac]

Imo its the range of clan streaks that really creates a problem for lights. 360m is a pretty large area to avoid when fighting a streakboat but light mechs have speed on their side. It sucks but its probably better to avoid them. They can only engage you inside 360m. Stay outside that range.
Those streakboats are a one trick pony and their trick is killing light mechs. It sucks when you run across one up close. I've been killed by them and it makes you mad but I've also been picked apart by a light mech boating sm pl lasers and its just as bad. Can't turn fast enough to engage the damn thing and even when you do it just seems to get shrug off half your damage.
I think a range reduction needs to happen but a cooldown increase for streak4's and streak6's would help

[Rattazustra]

The problem currently is that Streaks are the ONLY counter to some light mechs, thus they are permanently bound to be either too good or too bad.

We need additional counters to light mechs. It would be a good idea to improve the chances of TAGed and NARCed LRM against light mechs by increasing the tracking bonus of both systems. Since it is not easy to maintain a TAG on a running light mech or to get a NARC on him, this would be a soft counter and often require teamwork on top of it. Especially since most light mechs already field radar deprivation modules.

Also the leg hitboxes need to be tweaked, since it is often impossible to leg a light mech. Not because of bad aim, but because of bad coding that simply doesn't register half the hits.

Eventually though, there HAS to be a strong counter to light mechs. I don't see why ECM equipped Arctic Cheaters should have any special right of way on the battlefield to go wherever they want to and kill whomever they desire.

[Darian DelFord]

Maximum Overkill, on 19 November 2015 - 04:21 AM, said:

What will you get for an advantage of a smaller engine? A bigger engine makes your Jenner more responsive not a smaller...

And don't worry about the lights because the assaults are much harder nerved by the skill tree changes. Compared to live its super easy to core an assault through the back. I would say in an assault vs light match the lights wins about 90% with the pts changes. I don't think this will help the game balance in any way

I was talking about apples to apples. The Speed tweak nerf hit lights the hardest, simple law of percentages. It dropped our speed down as if we were 3 to 4 engine sizes down. Withoutout the benefit of extra tonnage for more weapons heatsinks or JJ's

Jabilac, on 19 November 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

Imo its the range of clan streaks that really creates a problem for lights. 360m is a pretty large area to avoid when fighting a streakboat but light mechs have speed on their side. It sucks but its probably better to avoid them. They can only engage you inside 360m. Stay outside that range.

Those streakboats are a one trick pony and their trick is killing light mechs. It sucks when you run across one up close. I've been killed by them and it makes you mad but I've also been picked apart by a light mech boating sm pl lasers and its just as bad. Can't turn fast enough to engage the damn thing and even when you do it just seems to get shrug off half your damage.
I think a range reduction needs to happen but a cooldown increase for streak4's and streak6's would help

Very true

Rattazustra, on 19 November 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

The problem currently is that Streaks are the ONLY counter to some light mechs, thus they are permanently bound to be either too good or too bad.

We need additional counters to light mechs. It would be a good idea to improve the chances of TAGed and NARCed LRM against light mechs by increasing the tracking bonus of both systems. Since it is not easy to maintain a TAG on a running light mech or to get a NARC on him, this would be a soft counter and often require teamwork on top of it. Especially since most light mechs already field radar deprivation modules.

Also the leg hitboxes need to be tweaked, since it is often impossible to leg a light mech. Not because of bad aim, but because of bad coding that simply doesn't register half the hits.

Eventually though, there HAS to be a strong counter to light mechs. I don't see why ECM equipped Arctic Cheaters should have any special right of way on the battlefield to go wherever they want to and kill whomever they desire.

I would not say that entirely. I still have my legs blown off. The Lag shield is all but gone and with improved Hit Reg, hitting the lights is easier and easier. Streaks are a HARD counter for lights. But they are by no means the only counter.

[Jabilac]

Rattazustra, on 19 November 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Also the leg hitboxes need to be tweaked, since it is often impossible to leg a light mech. Not because of bad aim, but because of bad coding that simply doesn't register half the hits.

Aim for their hips or thighs. If you aim for their ankles with laser half your burn will go between them regardless of how accurate you are.

[East Indy]

Clan Streaks are currently flying under the radar.

Since they're lighter, more compact and able to mount larger volleys, there's no reason — other than design decisions made 2 years ago — for range to be longer than the Inner Sphere's. 4- and 6-packs may also need the same volley treatment as LRMs.

[Darian DelFord]

Yeah the streak crows are so desperate for kills, they will shoot even when a friendly light is engaged with the enemy light. (

[ShinVector]

Bush Hopper, on 19 November 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Sorry, not everyone likes to run away with his tail between his legs and enjoy brawling and not just peek-a-booing.

Now here is find certain pilots are confused...

It is a 'Light mech'... So can brawl sure... But expect the risk of INSTANT DEATH and if it happens... You can't really QQ about it...

To light lights are most important in the late game where there more mechs that are nearly dead and can be taken out swiftly... Meanwhile dealing damage while taking as little damage as possible, is the most efficient way of light piloting that overall contributes to the win..


Yes.. Streaks are cheese... But PGI has already given their answer by buffing the speed of the damn things...

Take it as the crutch for those who can't aim.

Edited by ShinVector, 19 November 2015 - 11:43 PM.

[takkom]

i dont get the big fuss about streaks but maybe im doing something wrong

so, from what i have seen, it takes a streak crow (5x ssrm6, a tag/probe and 2dhs) around 4 salvos to kill a light mech.
keep in mind that a ssrm6 has a recharge of 6 seconds and that a lock is required and LOS usually not easily kept on a light and its not like one gets plowed over instantly when you run into them.

also, ammo is highly limited so that you will not be able to kill more than 3 mechs unless you get lucky.
or you drop the HS for ammo but then you might overheat before even killing one mech

if he gets a lock on you 4x and there is no cover that will obstruct the missiles flight path then, chances are that he would have gotten a good shot at you with 23t worth of lasers/ballistics and ruined your day either way imo.

[ShinVector]

takkom, on 22 November 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

i dont get the big fuss about streaks but maybe im doing something wrong

so, from what i have seen, it takes a streak crow (5x ssrm6, a tag/probe and 2dhs) around 4 salvos to kill a light mech.

You are probably doing it wrong... Pick your tags and ruin someones day.

For IS Lights since they usually XLs... If your very unlucky 1 Alpha will kill else... 2 Alphas....

Here is an example..



The 360M range of auto tracking goodness and the fact that ECM is nerfed big post re-balance will probably swing things more to SSRMs/LRMs. (Especially at the mid tier level.)

Edited by ShinVector, 22 November 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[takkom]

ShinVector, on 22 November 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

You are probably doing it wrong... Pick your tags and ruin someones day.

For IS Lights since they usually XLs... If your very unlucky 1 Alpha will kill else... 2 Alphas....

well... i could have recorded similar videos of me splashing a lights legs off in passing with a bunch of normal srms aimed at the ground near the feet, or dual gauss into an achs back. looks similarly devastating. i will not argue that streaks are terrible but

i tried to drop a streak crow last in cw a couple times. usually, lights pop in and out quickly and i cant get a lock (and i usually have a probe), or i get the lock but while i try to get a clear shot in between obstacles the enemy will be gone. either way, success was quite underwhelming. it does not let me plow through lights like some want to make it look.


i also had an urban mech eat more than 2 volleys w/o breaching armor. i could have easily killed him with just a fraction of the weight worth of lasers in that time.. i tried a couple more times in the testing groundsbefore posting hereand the commandos there usually took 4 volleys too.

normal srms that splash legs and lasers work just as well for me and can be used to great effect on bigger mechs too. maybe ill try again sometime in the future for fun but for now i have removed streaksboats from my decks.

[ShinVector]

takkom, on 22 November 2015 - 09:11 PM, said:

well... i could have recorded similar videos of me splashing a lights legs off in passing with a bunch of normal srms aimed at the ground near the feet, or dual gauss into an achs back. looks similarly devastating. i will not argue that streaks are terrible but

i tried to drop a streak crow last in cw a couple times. usually, lights pop in and out quickly and i cant get a lock (and i usually have a probe), or i get the lock but while i try to get a clear shot in between obstacles the enemy will be gone. either way, success was quite underwhelming. it does not let me plow through lights like some want to make it look.


i also had an urban mech eat more than 2 volleys w/o breaching armor. i could have easily killed him with just a fraction of the weight worth of lasers in that time.. i tried a couple more times in the testing groundsbefore posting hereand the commandos there usually took 4 volleys too.

normal srms that splash legs and lasers work just as well for me and can be used to great effect on bigger mechs too. maybe ill try again sometime in the future for fun but for now i have removed streaksboats from my decks.

Lights... Locks....
Well I use that video as an example because the pilot that was shot down is one that is better than most.

Just shows how much of nothing it means when a SkillCrow manages to sneak up close enough.. Even if was to survive that second shot... Most lights would be seriously maimed.

Please go record video and show how well SRMs work against light in live... They don't most of the time because online hitreg is bad... Don't matter to streaks how well you dodge or twist or jump or skill... Its hits are server authoritative and Streak6x5 just saturates light mechs with damage.

Only if MWO had perfect hit reg, I would probably agree that it can be beaten.... But thats not the case..

--

Anyway.. You are probably doing it wrong as mentioned...
1. Since you arguing about locks... I would say Artemis is the problem.
2. CW drop decks.... If it was down the last deck... And something it went something like 4 clan SkillCrows up against 12 IS light mechs... I would NOT be surprised if the SkillCrows win it without breaking a sweat. (So much so, I do not have lights in my CW drop deck.. Only 55 tonner mediums.)

Edited by ShinVector, 23 November 2015 - 12:09 AM.

[Mordin Ashe]

Why should any Mech ever get to run into the middle of enemy company and survive? This run and gun mentality is what has to go and streaks are perfect at doing that job. Streaking a light that drives defensively and flanks, snipes and supports without the ridiculous "I CAN JUMP BETWEEN 12 ENEMIES AND SURVIVE" attitude is what playing lights should be.

Also, it is not like streaks are a magical weapon that fires itself whenever enemy Mech is in the area. If you want to be a good streak boat you have to plan for flight path and positioning in order not to waste all your punch on a wall or some friendly back armor. There is skill involved, even though many prefer not to see it.