50 replies to this topic

[Soultraxx]

Ultimatum X, on 20 November 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

That's all fine and good.


This isn't for the OP or you specifically, this is for players in general.




You should never, ever, give your opinion on game mechanics if you do not actually understand them.


You can say "I don't like X, it doesn't feel good/strong/fun/practical" or "I don't like this mech, it feels too weak/slow/undergunend".


Once you step into the realm of discussing actual game mechanics and detailed balance issues, please ffs know what you are talking about.

Fair enough. I was a bit grumpy this morning and ended up not practicing what I was preaching perhaps. Apols for being a grouch

[WarHippy]

van Uber, on 20 November 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

You are totally right with the quirks, of course.

However, that is the current quirks. The initial change was +10 Internal Structure only as per these patchnotes:
http://mwomercs.com/...07-29-jul-2014/

I am under the impression that the AC felt more durable after that change.

Eh, I think that was more illusion than actually more durability for the AC. I felt like I was losing it just as fast, but instead of losing it, my RT, and my medium laser in my right arm I was just losing the AC and at least still felt somewhat relevant.

[pattonesque]

Atlas needs more than just structure quirks to be viable in the current environment.

Right now the chassis has too many weaknesses -- huge, slow, low mounts, can't boat weapons -- to be viable in the post-clan world. Atlases excel as brawlers, but most engagements at higher tiers take place at mid-long range, where the Atlas cannot compete. Even if it does make it to brawling range, it'll probably already be pretty beat-up, and laser/gauss vomit mechs will be able to out-brawl it.

All these problems are bad enough in the regular queue, but in CW they're much worse. Taking an Atlas in CW is a waste of a 'mech pretty much every time.

Seeing an Atlas come around the corner should be a problem for you, but right now it's easily mitigated by either staying at range or running away. What the chassis needs is (at very least) massive armor AND structure quirks, agility quirks, and possibly reductions in critical chance and brawling weapon bonuses. That'll return it to its original role of facesmasher, change up the meta a bit, and maybe cause people to stop taking LRMs on them as a way to make them feel semi-viable.

[Elizander]

pattonesque, on 20 November 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

Atlas needs more than just structure quirks to be viable in the current environment.

Right now the chassis has too many weaknesses -- huge, slow, low mounts, can't boat weapons -- to be viable in the post-clan world. Atlases excel as brawlers, but most engagements at higher tiers take place at mid-long range, where the Atlas cannot compete. Even if it does make it to brawling range, it'll probably already be pretty beat-up, and laser/gauss vomit mechs will be able to out-brawl it.

All these problems are bad enough in the regular queue, but in CW they're much worse. Taking an Atlas in CW is a waste of a 'mech pretty much every time.

Seeing an Atlas come around the corner should be a problem for you, but right now it's easily mitigated by either staying at range or running away. What the chassis needs is (at very least) massive armor AND structure quirks, agility quirks, and possibly reductions in critical chance and brawling weapon bonuses. That'll return it to its original role of facesmasher, change up the meta a bit, and maybe cause people to stop taking LRMs on them as a way to make them feel semi-viable.

The Atlas variants on the PTS have (on average save for the DDC) faster acceleration and twist speed. A little loss on turning (moderate, about 5% less turning speed) and they do lose out on Twist range. Overall a big gain. Twist range can be compensated for by turning a bit if needed.

I still don't think they have the heat reduction quirks to be in your face for too long though some variants did get some in small amounts of 5% to 10%.

They are looking better overall. I'm hoping the acceleration/deceleration increase (15%-25% more compared to now) will allow the long-range atlas builds to be better at peek and shoot around corners. Not gonna be meta but I'll take what I can.

[Xetelian]

Scout, <3

But Atlai need armor quirks before they need structure quirks.

Until the atlas has the firepower of a DWF or the armor to survive like one (cXL) it'll still be a poor choice compared to a Banshee or Stalker.

I have 4 and run them all the time but it still an up hill struggle.

[pattonesque]

Xetelian, on 20 November 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

Scout, <3

But Atlai need armor quirks before they need structure quirks.

Until the atlas has the firepower of a DWF or the armor to survive like one (cXL) it'll still be a poor choice compared to a Banshee or Stalker.

I have 4 and run them all the time but it still an up hill struggle.

Right?

Like ... IF an Atlas can get close to something and IF it's not been horribly damaged by then and IF it's not immediately focused down and IF you twist like a madman and IF the other guy isn't in a build that can handle you or get away then MAYBE the Atlas can perform well

too many ifs

[SgtMagor]

many peeps, threads, discussions on the Atlas past 2 years, most of us came to the conclusion then that the Atlas needed Armor and structure quirks to function in MWO. the other problem I see is there is no collisions, or melee where the mech was supposed to excel in so half of its abilities of a general all around mech was nerfed from the beginning...

[Mycrus]

JohnnyWayne, on 19 November 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

XL friendly? Gtfo.

Noone puts a xl in an atlas - How dare you!

Moreover... Well thats basically 1 more alpha strike the atlas can take. I am looking forward to see the changes on live-servers. Not so sure about the clan xl changes though....

When you have every single atlas variant with std engines you want to put another std on the boar's head?

[van Uber]

WarHippy, on 20 November 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

Eh, I think that was more illusion than actually more durability for the AC. I felt like I was losing it just as fast, but instead of losing it, my RT, and my medium laser in my right arm I was just losing the AC and at least still felt somewhat relevant.

I take your word for it. One should be careful about vague impressions from long ago. I'm speaking for myself, so I admit I have not much to back it up with.

[Navid A1]

So, no armor quirks for the atlas?

just... MEH !

in the meantime, there is a crit reduction chance quirk on the boar's head. Its just like PGI saying: "we EXACTLY know what is the problem with the atlas... so buy some MC"

Structure quirks means NOTHING in survivability. The moment you lose the armor you can kiss that AC20 goodbye (and your srms) because the first shot will more than likely crit the hell out of it. You can keep that useless RT/LT for as long as you want.. more damage score for the enemy i guess.


with that aside... i think i'm gonna like new ghost heat limit (4) for srm 4s and 6s on my Atlas-S with missile heat gen quirks

[Black Fish]

If I remember correctly they increased the components' health as-well, which means you'd get to keep your weapons for a little longer.
Overall I like the Idea of having exposed internals for longer. It will make the firepower curve down the more you tank, making the game more dynamic and further away from other FPS games with 1% all good 0% dead mechanics. It also buff crit seeking weapons, which might become a thing to consider when building your 'Mech - as an answer to FupDup's

FupDup, on 19 November 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

What I meant is that crits and crit-seeking weapons are ineffective/pointless most of the time.