45 replies to this topic

[Redburn]

Again?

The (very) last thing I want is a "middle man" between me and PGI/IGP. They (Valve) add absolutely nothing to the experience, nothing.

[Graphite]

Redburn, on 13 July 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

Again?

The (very) last thing I want is a "middle man" between me and PGI/IGP. They (Valve) add absolutely nothing to the experience, nothing.

I can understand PGI not wanting steam, but I can't see any disadvantage for the players.

Steam would add one huge thing (among other small things) to MWO: a larger audience/market. In other words, more players. As long as the game has internal systems to sort the newbs from the veterans, the casual from the hardcore, then more players is ALWAYS good, no exceptions.

[CCC Dober]

@Graphite
The 'problem' is manifold and it's easy to like Steam for what it is. The player/customer feedback regarding steam is mixed and for a good reason. I'd rather see that kind of feedback taken serious by Steam and do something about it. Advertising and promoting games is not going to cut it because players have actively started to ban steam (only games) from their list. If that doesn't ring any bells 'up there', then it is high time somebody starts to listen to the players/customers and works with them instead of some corporate lackeys or marketing 'geniuses' with a total detachment from the player's needs. Players/customers don't react so bad when there is no reason behind it. I'm not even going to pretend that Steam is doing its level best to avoid such problems in the first place, far from it. That's another problem I see with it. That same old same old 'We don't need no water'-attitude. Ever 'lost' an account and you know what I mean. That you could be poorer several hundred bucks (irreplaceably) in games just adds insult to the injury.

Me, I'm fine with Steam for now, as long as it doesn't threaten to choke or bleed out this very franchise. Even if the cut was 20:80 in favor of PGI, that's still 20 percent cut from the revenue of a game that did not enjoy massive financial support in the first place, even outright discouragement and now has backers to pay back first and above all. Steam's cut is defintely not peanuts in this light.

Personally speaking it's just good business for PGI to build up numbers on their own and use that as leverage in future negotiations. Negotiating from a position of strength and independence is much easier than being told what the deal is and the need to accept it. Even so, Steam might still try to dictate terms as is only right. But those, I fear, would be pretty bad atm without a serious show of strength. Approximately 1.5 mil through Founder's packages is a good beginning, but it's just that.

Once all the backers are paid and PGI is doing really good, pushing double digit mils in total, that would be a good time to start talks in earnest. They can go into the negotiation with much more confidence and basically prove that they can do well enough on their own and in fact are independent. Changes the whole attitude and the deal (for the better). And if not, PGI could still continue to do well. No loss, either way you look at it. Whereas going into negotiations too early ... you get the picture.

Edited by CCC Dober, 13 July 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[Graphite]

CCC Dober, on 13 July 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

@Graphite
The 'problem' is manifold and it's easy to like Steam for what it is. The player/customer feedback regarding steam is mixed and for a good reason. I'd rather see that kind of feedback taken serious by Steam and do something about it. Advertising and promoting games is not going to cut it because players have actively started to ban steam (only games) from their list. If that doesn't ring any bells 'up there', then it is high time somebody starts to listen to the players/customers and works with them instead of some corporate lackeys or marketing 'geniuses' with a total detachment from the player's needs. Players/customers don't react so bad when there is no reason behind it.

I'm sorry Dober, but you're not getting the real picture. Steam's sales grew 100% (not a typo) last year, and for the 6 years before that.
Steam is BY FAR the most popular PC game distribution system on the planet.

There is no movement of players "actively banning steam only games", besides the occasional person you see in these forums.

Now that that fantasy is taken care of: I'm sure PGI have people competent enough to have thought of steam at some point ;-)
So the fact that MWO is not on steam means either Steam refused to have it (hard to imagine) or the people doing business plans at PGI calculated they'd probably make more money without steam.

So, like I said, I doubt we'll see it on steam, but as a player I'd like to: the convenience and player population increase would be nice.

[CCC Dober]

The people who have banned Steam are those you will never hear of again. I'm not surprised that you don't realise this because closing your eyes to the problems in the past and present goes along the same lines. Those people that have issues with Steam will tolerate it for a while until they are fed up with it. Why do you think people ask for no-steam exe files after all? If you don't see the underlying problem here, then I can't help you to see the bigger problem at all.

[Cake Bandit]

CCC Dober, on 14 July 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

The people who have banned Steam are those you will never hear of again. I'm not surprised that you don't realise this because closing your eyes to the problems in the past and present goes along the same lines. Those people that have issues with Steam will tolerate it for a while until they are fed up with it. Why do you think people ask for no-steam exe files after all? If you don't see the underlying problem here, then I can't help you to see the bigger problem at all.

This community is literally the only place I have seen that.

[JoshuaWolf]

i hate Steam all i got to say

[CCC Dober]

@Cake
Maybe you don't frequent too many places, so it is understandable. I'm not judging btw and am still comfy with Steam. Problem is that I understand the underlying and the bigger problems of Steam because it worries me as well. Digital distribution is all fine and dandy until somebody hacks your game and email account/s. You could lose a lot of time, money and progress in such a case, something that happened and is still happening AFAIK. With a boxed game at least, you have an undeniable right and proof of ownership. Barring physical destruction or theft it is a superior solution when proof of ownership is required.

[Graphite]

CCC Dober, on 14 July 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

The people who have banned Steam are those you will never hear of again. I'm not surprised that you don't realise this because closing your eyes to the problems in the past and present goes along the same lines. Those people that have issues with Steam will tolerate it for a while until they are fed up with it. Why do you think people ask for no-steam exe files after all? If you don't see the underlying problem here, then I can't help you to see the bigger problem at all.

Mmm, sure, and the moon landing was faked...

[CCC Dober]

If you don't have anything useful/constructive to contribute, then I suggest you keep it to yourself from now on. Mods are watching.

[Graphite]

CCC Dober, on 15 July 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

If you don't have anything useful/constructive to contribute, then I suggest you keep it to yourself from now on. Mods are watching.

I suggest my post was at least as contructive as the one of yours it replied to. (And your lovely "suggest" post to which I am now replying)

Edited by Graphite, 15 July 2012 - 04:25 AM.

[Faenwulf]

Lets just make this short:

[Reoh]

Even if it was available on Steam, it doesn't mean it would not be obtainable elsewhere (direct from PGI) as well.

[Dieselpunk]

So... I'm dusting off this thread so I don't have to start a new one about Steam's Greenlight program since it's been officially implemented into the client this week. I know there are a lot of folks who dislike Steam for whatever reason; however, the Devs may want to look into it just the same. Steam is another means of advertizing, a way to increase the game's player base, as well as a method of gaining revenue all the while keeping the game free, enjoyable, and well supported for us.

With that said, if Piranha never uses Steam, it won't break my heart.

[Victor Morson]

Prepare for the horribly misinformed, ignorant angry mob that heard from a guy that knows a guy who said Steam totally eats babies and punches puppies..

MuffinTop, on 10 July 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Another one of these? This is 1 of about 12 of these threads asking for the same thing already! NOOOOO...keep MWO off STEAM!

.. too late.

EDIT: I am constantly amused, confused and saddened that so much of the MWO community has this odd, irrational hatred of Steam. ****, I'd love MWO to be fully Steam integrated but the bottom line is since it's not it won't ever, ever matter if it is. If MWO gets put on Steam, it'll stay where it is too (since again, it's not integrated) and it won't impact anyone at all.

Steam is a good thing. It's a good program, with a good purpose that offers good prices and good exposure to indies. It's got the best copyright and cheat protections in the business and a slew of features. It's single handedly ushered the era of Digital Distro and created aftermarkets for old games (leading to revamps in models for GOD games and such). If you've heard crazy insane things about it being malicious, bloated or whatever you're absolutely in error. This is less a pitch for MWO to be on Steam and more "Try it before you complain." If you do try it and still complain, you're wrong.*

* OK, it sucked for the first couple months before it came out and the ideas for it before it was released were bad. That was how many years ago again?

Edited by Victor Morson, 31 August 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[MrPlow254]

The only problem with steam is that they have the ingame user interface. It would be almost pointless to have that feature in the game since you are only there for about 15 min.

However it would be nice to have its security for autologin to the game launcher and the friendslist inport. Spiral knights for example.

- if they redesign the launcher and the way the game launches i would steam working very nicely.

- Steam would also allow for faster download speeds to more people. vs the slow speeds we get from igp/piranha.

- More people would be able to see that you are playing the game.

- Steam workshop would be a nice addon to this game. To submit mechs to the development team that you have made. or other objects.

**PLEASE POST ON MY PROFILE IF YOU LIKE THIS**

[Victor Morson]

Graphite, on 13 July 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I'd like to see MWO on Steam, but I'd be surprised if it happened. You have to give some control of your game (and money) to Valve.

Although IMHO the added (massive) exposure Steam would give would make up for it....

On your first point, that's simply not true. It's only for Steam integrated games that you have to give Valve any input, and that really comes down to making sure your game's interactions with Steam won't break it or the overlay. Also, if you're integrated I believe the achievement system is also required.

There's tons of games, both huge and small, that are on Steam right now with absolutely no Steam integration. Granted I actually prefer Steam integrated titles, as it makes it stupid easy to get into games with my friends and invite people into matches. But it's not required.

Frankly I expect MWO will eventually show up on Steam. Maybe not tomorrow, but several months down the line when MWO has proven to be a good money maker there's almost nothing preventing it. Also I expect the only reason it's not already Steam integrated is more to do with them still working out business arrangements.

Exposure + Ease of access = very very worthwhile from a money making perspective and entirely harmless to yours.

Now if you guys want a digital distro system to rage against and get angry about, please go mess around with Origin. That deserves every bad thing said about it; it's a train wreck!

Faenwulf, on 15 July 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Lets just make this short:

If your only opinion is a rage comic macro, your opinion should be disqualified automatically.

[Banekane]

ok here is the DEAL so to speak :

1) Steam requires you to PAY to download the game.
2) MWO already announced F2P and dont want players to PAY to download the game.
3) MWO already has MARKETING and has put the word out about MWO
4) STEAM is not a proper choice unless it was a PAY to get the game type game

as you all can see that is why i think this idea wont work

[MrPlow254]

Banekane, on 01 September 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

ok here is the DEAL so to speak :

1) Steam requires you to PAY to download the game.
2) MWO already announced F2P and dont want players to PAY to download the game.
3) MWO already has MARKETING and has put the word out about MWO
4) STEAM is not a proper choice unless it was a PAY to get the game type game

as you all can see that is why i think this idea wont work

1) Steam does not require you to "PAY to download the game" - they also allow for people to upload free 2 play games in a new way for users.

- eliminates point 2 and 4

3) They do not have the word out. I only found out about the game watching YouTube on IGN, the video is up only for what 1 day before you can’t find it without digging. - E3 is out of the picture who can go to E3

you also have to know steam is not a requirement to play games. you can still get it from where it was. It is just a new source that has millions of online users each day.
** allowing millions to view the game not thousands like it is now

Every argument that points away from steam is either false, misleading, or there are counter points.

[Chrome Dragon]

Redburn, on 13 July 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

Again?

The (very) last thing I want is a "middle man" between me and PGI/IGP. They (Valve) add absolutely nothing to the experience, nothing.

Except for Steam Overlay for an in-game IM service that lets me coordinate with friends so we can play together. Right now alt-tabbing out of MWO takes a dump on my graphics settings.

And also, the ability to patch the game automagically while I'm not trying to launch and play it. I come over, I notice new patch notes, I play -- versus the beta experience of I come over, discover DirectX needs updating, spend an hour, discover the game needs updating, spend an hour, and ohhey, it's already midnight.

Dieselpunk, on 31 August 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

So... I'm dusting off this thread so I don't have to start a new one about Steam's Greenlight program since it's been officially implemented into the client this week. I know there are a lot of folks who dislike Steam for whatever reason; however, the Devs may want to look into it just the same. Steam is another means of advertizing, a way to increase the game's player base, as well as a method of gaining revenue all the while keeping the game free, enjoyable, and well supported for us.

With that said, if Piranha never uses Steam, it won't break my heart.

Also a great idea. It's not strictly an "indie" game, but it's worth looking into the Greenlight program.

MrPlow254, on 31 August 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

The only problem with steam is that they have the ingame user interface. It would be almost pointless to have that feature in the game since you are only there for about 15 min.

However it would be nice to have its security for autologin to the game launcher and the friendslist inport. Spiral knights for example.

- if they redesign the launcher and the way the game launches i would steam working very nicely.

- Steam would also allow for faster download speeds to more people. vs the slow speeds we get from igp/piranha.

- More people would be able to see that you are playing the game.

- Steam workshop would be a nice addon to this game. To submit mechs to the development team that you have made. or other objects.

**PLEASE POST ON MY PROFILE IF YOU LIKE THIS**

Actually, I really like the ingame UI. Steam IM makes it possible to get friends who aren't in the same room on the same private server without going into conniptions.

Banekane, on 01 September 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

ok here is the DEAL so to speak :

1) Steam requires you to PAY to download the game.
2) MWO already announced F2P and dont want players to PAY to download the game.
3) MWO already has MARKETING and has put the word out about MWO
4) STEAM is not a proper choice unless it was a PAY to get the game type game

as you all can see that is why i think this idea wont work

1) false
2) non-sequitor and/or red herring; Steam hosts several F2P games.
3) MWO can always use *more* marketing, and wouldn't have to stop being F2P
4) Demonstrably false - see Spiral Knights, for example.