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Fallout 4 Sucks!


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#1 Alistair Winter

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 11:32 PM

Fallout 4 has a nearly infinite amount of features and content, a mind-boggling huge sandbox world to explore, thousands of different quests, a great crafting system, loads of different factions, over a dozen companions and some really excellent voice acting.

And it's probably the worst Fallout game I've ever played.

It took a while for me to realize this. I also kind of hate the game engine that they used, because the graphics aren't really that much better than Fallout 3 or Skyrim. I'm going to come right out and say it. The graphics look really, really dated. But I was prepared to forgive them this, because graphics aren't really the most important part of the game.

The most important part is either a good story or a fundamentally entertaining core gameplay (e.g. killing bad guys or sneaking around or using dialogue or whatever core paths the game allows) or both. Fallout 4 has neither.

The story is so absurdly unengaging, it's like a C-level science fiction series on Netflix. It just grows increasingly complex without any kind of emotional build-up at all. At level 37, I'm heavily involved in three powerful rival factions and to be frank, I don't really care which one I should pick to complete the game. And the actual main quest in the game (spoiler alert: you're looking for a person) is perhaps the most anti-climatic plot twist I have ever seen in a game, ever since I played Dragon Age 2. (I spent the whole game trying to help the Qunari, only to find out that it doesn't matter, because you ultimately can't change their fate anyway)

Basically, the whole point of Fallout 4 is to find someone, and when I found him / her, I almost wished I'd just spent the whole time working on my potato farm settlement instead. And to make matters worse, the feeling seemed to be mutual! The other person didn't really seem to care that I found him / her either. Yaay...

Ok, so Fallout 4 has the worst story of any Fallout game. Fair enough. What about the actual core gameplay? Well, it's basically a typical lazy RPG system in the framework of a very, very simplistic first person shooter. Almost immediately as the game starts, you'll have power armour and laser rifles and miniguns. Remember Fallout 2, when you had to work real hard to progress from knives and spears to simple pistols and hunting rifles? Yeah, forget that. But to make it "interesting" and provide some feeling of progression, your early weapons are almost useless against powerful enemies.

Simply put, when you grow tired of killing bandits in leather jackets with your automatic rifle, you'll encounter super bandits wearing super leather jackets. And to kill them, you'll need a super automatic rifle. Failing that, you will need to shoot them in the face at least 100 times with a regular automatic rifle. Much realism. Wow. Very immersion. At some point, unless you've upgraded your weapons to super weapons, you'll engage in firefights where you're literally standing 10 meters away from your enemy, as both of you unload hundreds of rounds of ammunition into each other's faces in a long and uneventful war of attrition.

But what about non-violent ways of playing the game? Like Fallout 2, where you could win the game through intelligence and dialogue. Is that fun in Fallout 4? Nope. Your dialogue options are extremely limited. Basically, your 4 answers to anything the NPCs say are almost always
  • 'I hate you',
  • 'Tell me more'
  • 'Sarcastic joke'
  • 'Uh-huh. Just skip the story, tell me how many wolf pelts I have to collect to get the magic sword.'
Where Fallout 1 & 2 had lots of dialogue options and seemingly infinite ways certain conversations could unfold, depending on your intelligence, charisma, skills and a number of other factors, Fallout 4 dialogue is as formulaic and uninteresting as any modern MMORPG.


I don't know if I'm even going to complete this game. It may be the first Fallout game I don't finish. Hell, I even played through Fallout Tactics a couple of times! I'm a die-hard Fallout fan, but I just can't work with this.

Posted Image

Worst Fallout game ever.


Edited by Alistair Winter, 21 November 2015 - 12:20 AM.


#2 SnagaDance

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 10:44 AM

Fallout Tactics has an undeserved bad rep IMO (yeah I played through it multiple times as well).

I thought the story suitably over the top (super mutant menace in 1, high tech military menace in 2, haywire killer robots in tactics) and I liked the pragmatic Brotherhood that still had its elitist trappings.

Nice selection of enemies as well. Going from Raiders to Beast Men (thought them nice and novel too) and those Tech worshipping Reavers and finally those nasty Robots.

I'm sure I'll play Fallout 4 as well (haven't got it yet), I guess I'll just hope for the best. :)

#3 DAYLEET

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 02:10 PM

I never liked doing the main story in any fallout, im always doing something else, trying to live in that world. New Vegas was awesome for that and FO4 is delivering hard for someone like me.

For the Graphic, i really like the artistic direction of the game and i think it's beautiful to look at(unlike FO3/NV). I don't even feel like i need a texture pack right now and in a solo game i can live with dramatic effect like darkness or blinded by light and blur etc because it adds to the ambiance.Not all characters look alike now, they manage to make faces different from each others.

The little story i did was terrible but i don't care or do it anyway. I literally laughed out loud during the cutscene after you got in the vault because it was so cheesy bad. You gave it a C? i give it a Z assuming it gets worse toward the letter Z.

Im more shocked that the terminals are not used to deepen the world/lore you are exploring and are only used as a raider diary journal.

The game is hard now, harder than ever beside New Vegas HC mode with 1 life. Im happy for it, much more realistic in the damage that you take. I play on very hard right now. The loot system with legendary is a nice change and the weapons a nice to play with.

All in all im enjoying myself most of the times but it;s a bethesda games, they rely on people modding their game and they do it more than ever now. Some game mechanics are so bad that you wonder if they tried their game once(like de-constructing).

Once again, if you want a real/old fallout game wait for Black Iles Studio now Obsidian to make a New Vegas 2. At least they know how.


Don't get me wrong, in the sandbox department, theres tons of stuff that could have been done better but they are pushing it right now and to be honest they did better than i expected Bethesda to do and i don't mean that in a bad demeaning way.

Edited by DAYLEET, 21 November 2015 - 02:19 PM.


#4 adamts01

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:57 AM

I'm level 52 now and I do like the game so far. Fallout 3 was the only other title I've played. It does suck not caring what faction you go with. I turned sanctuary in to a purified water farm. Plus with all the scavenging posts and feed troughs I can crank out enough jet to buy anything. I've been playing on the hardest setting since level 20. Having unlimited money ammo and Fusion cores makes things pretty easy. Another crap thing is that it doesn't really matter how you build your settlements. Now I just make some stairs to a a gun platform and put all the living quarters and crap above that. Fences are worthless as the fight happens inside because the gate is always open. I just removed them all to give my guns better shots. I don't care about the side missions, just cranking out the story. As long as I keep my water farm happy. I also found out I could put all my companions in power armor. That's cool. Especially when they have the Tesla torso. I don't think it's bad at all though.

#5 Mister Blastman

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 09:25 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 20 November 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

Simply put, when you grow tired of killing bandits in leather jackets with your automatic rifle, you'll encounter super bandits wearing super leather jackets. And to kill them, you'll need a super automatic rifle. Failing that, you will need to shoot them in the face at least 100 times with a regular automatic rifle. Much realism. Wow. Very immersion. At some point, unless you've upgraded your weapons to super weapons, you'll engage in firefights where you're literally standing 10 meters away from your enemy, as both of you unload hundreds of rounds of ammunition into each other's faces in a long and uneventful war of attrition.


Wow. So it suffers from the Borderlands syndrome? I think the first shooter I remember having that issue was Hellgate London? I think that was its name... I never played it, just watched some footage of it.

Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl spoiled me. That game is hardcore. It is more hardcore than hardcore mode in New Vegas. And it is a hell of a lot of fun. The non-VATS gunplay in Fallout 3 and New Vegas was bad. I can't imagine it getting worse. Hell, as lauded as Call of Pripyat was, I still found Chernobyl superior for various reasons.

Thanks for the lowdown. It sounds like I might skip Fallout 4 completely.

#6 Wrathful Scythe

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 10:06 AM

It's a really good shooter but a pretty bad "fallout".

Have played around 40 hours now and liked it very much. Though, it seems I have seen most of the game because I can't find any more bigger quests and have explored almost the whole map. Might try another character on a higher difficulty. Except a few moments the game is pretty easy. Even if some raiders with Fatmans or rocket launcher just one-shot you in the early game.

It has many flaws and got simplified for the masses but I still had my fun with it. Startet the series with Fallout 3 so no nostalgic feelings for me. Lets see what the modding community does with the game.

#7 t Khrist

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 01:25 PM

117 hours in to it and can easily foresee another 117. I'm not a hardcore player either. I have my HUD, on Normal difficulty, and I fast travel even the shortest distances. I do this because I know even with those handicaps, it will still take me a very long time to see and do EVERYTHING in the game. I will find all locations, I will have every perk, I will do every quest, I will max out every settlement, I will find every Easter egg and nod to to things outside of the game, and I will have more than one play-through. Though my second time through will be only to choose every bad option, ignoring all the frills like settlements. I mean, who doesn't love going all Renegade in Mass Effect, or blowing up Megaton in 3? But you don't want that to be your main play; it just messes too many things/quests up. I don't intend to do it all on my own though. I'll try my best to find everything without help, but somethings you just don't stumble upon, and have to look up. The game's just too big.

Just realized I should have posted this in the other FO4 thread, more relevant there I suppose. I don't know.. it's confusing with two threads going now. Meant to just let this one die..

Edited by t Khrist, 23 November 2015 - 01:29 PM.


#8 Alistair Winter

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Posted 23 November 2015 - 02:23 PM

View PostMister Blastman, on 23 November 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

Wow. So it suffers from the Borderlands syndrome? I think the first shooter I remember having that issue was Hellgate London? I think that was its name... I never played it, just watched some footage of it.
Stalker: Shadow of Chernobyl spoiled me. That game is hardcore. It is more hardcore than hardcore mode in New Vegas. And it is a hell of a lot of fun. The non-VATS gunplay in Fallout 3 and New Vegas was bad. I can't imagine it getting worse. Hell, as lauded as Call of Pripyat was, I still found Chernobyl superior for various reasons.
Thanks for the lowdown. It sounds like I might skip Fallout 4 completely.

Borderlands is a very good comparison, yeah. Fallout 1&2 always had an element of comedy, but I feel like Fallout 4 has even more comedy, while stripping away some of the dark dystopia of the original games. Fallout 1&2 was bleak as hell. Drug addicts everywhere, prostitutes, slavers. The element of comedy was far outshadowed by the darker elements of that universe.

Fallout 4 feels more like Borderlands. It's like Disney made a Fallout game.

View PostWrathful Scythe, on 23 November 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

It's a really good shooter but a pretty bad "fallout".
Have played around 40 hours now and liked it very much. Though, it seems I have seen most of the game because I can't find any more bigger quests and have explored almost the whole map. Might try another character on a higher difficulty. Except a few moments the game is pretty easy. Even if some raiders with Fatmans or rocket launcher just one-shot you in the early game.
It has many flaws and got simplified for the masses but I still had my fun with it. Startet the series with Fallout 3 so no nostalgic feelings for me. Lets see what the modding community does with the game.

Well, as you say, it's simplified and it's just not Fallout. If you like this kind of shooter and don't have any feelings of nostalgia towards the Fallout-universe, I can see how you'd consider it a good game. It has a lot of redeeming aspects, if you don't actually care about the story.

The biggest thing I'm missing from Fallout 4 as a Fallout-game is the lack of versatility. You could play Fallout 1&2 in so many different ways.
  • You could play it as a super intelligent scientist or doctor, being almost defenseless in actual combat, but using your brains to avoid danger and discover opportunities that would otherwise be unavailable. With enough intelligence, completely new conversation options would appear. Being able to hack computers, repair broken elevators or pick locks wasn't simply something you did to disable turrets and find some extra bottle caps. It opened completely new areas of the game.
  • You could play it as a super charismatic and sexy alpha male / female, persuading pretty much anyone to agree to your terms. You could even use your sex appeal to get in some very interesting positions, solving quests in unique ways. Bow-chicka-wow-wow.
  • You could play the game as a dumb brute with the intelligence of an average bovine. Instead of being able to discuss advanced physics and medicine, your character now had conversation options such as "Ugh.... uh..." and "Uhm... hmm-uh". You were basically re-tarded. Which brought its own interesting challenges.
  • There were also a bunch of other alternatives, of course. But where every Fallout 4 character is potentially a jack of all trades, being an expert hacker, lockpicker, armor crafter, trader, leader, gunsmith and healer, Fallout 1&2 actually made you chose a small set of skills and then left it up to you to use those skills properly. This meant that a lot of options and paths were unavailable each time you played the game. But it also made the game more fun to play, because every run would be completely different.


#9 iLLcapitan

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 02:18 AM

You've been to the docks where this boy points you to the 'sea monster'? He has a sad story to tell, gives you the hint, then is left behind by the game. No more dialogue or anything.
It's gotten so far, that I dropped some (unneeded) sweets, pure water and food in his broken fridge in his broken home, as a reward for his hint. Just to get the feeling of a RPG situation.

#10 Hex Pallett

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 08:40 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 20 November 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

Ok, so Fallout 4 has the worst story of any Fallout game. Fair enough.


Um, no no no that is definitely and objectively not true (okay maybe subjectively). I'm one of those who only played "new" Fallouts (bite me) and there's no way Fallout 4 is worse than 3 or NV.

I mean, how many factions does FO3 have? TWO! Brotherhood and Enclave, comically militaristic vs. comically racist. Main story is completely linear and all you did was following your papa's footstep. New Vegas's faction ain't much better either: NCR, comically old-school militaristic, Legion, comically savage, and that New Vegas AI thing. The story basically ended when I reached the New Vegas AI thing - you're gonna give the chip to the faction you like and grant them the power to rule Mojave - and I immediately stopped playing at that point.

(FO4 spoiler)

Spoiler


View PostMister Blastman, on 23 November 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

The non-VATS gunplay in Fallout 3 and New Vegas was bad. I can't imagine it getting worse.


Shooting is definitely better in FO4. It's somewhere between Borderlands and Killing Floor.

Edited by Helmstif, 24 November 2015 - 09:09 AM.


#11 Mcgral18

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 03:46 PM

Well, at level 40, one of my go to weapons is still a 10MM pistol...you need the perks for weapons to remain useful (IE, double damage by the end) but anything that's not a .38 Pipe gun will kill things in a handful of shots.

On Hard at least, which is only something like 0.75 damage dealt and 1.25 damage received (yes, boring, Survival being double and half).



I think it's an alright game. No Witcher 3, but better than most things out there. I...I haven't really gotten around to the Main quest yet.

#12 Mystere

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 05:28 PM

Considering I've been playing Fallout 4 instead of MWO lately, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

#13 ShinVector

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 07:28 PM

Somehow all this talk about the old Fallout reminded me of the Pariah Dog...

--

I dunno... So far I am enjoying the game playing it as a post apocalyptic Sim City...
The main story doesn't really interest me that much.

Having more fun gearing up the Settlers with better weapons (especially the blue lasers until i get better one)...
Watching those random raider bandits burn is loads of fun...

Edited by ShinVector, 24 November 2015 - 07:29 PM.


#14 Dino Might

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Posted 24 November 2015 - 07:58 PM

Fallout FPS games have never been like the original Fallout 1 and 2 games. 3, NV, and 4 are all FPS with RPG elements. I like them for what they are, and I am having a blast with 4. I like setting up bases, creating my giant fortress of doom that nobody is allowed to set foot in but me. Wait, what's that settler doing here? 100 missiles later and they're still not dead...hmmmmm, need to search the wasteland for more mini-nukes.

My personal preference is to create iconic characters and play thematically. I have Doc Holiday, who uses his .44 magnum all the time. It's hard scrounging enough ammo, so sometimes he'll use a double barrel shotgun, and maybe the 10mm. I have Jean Claude Van Damme, who punches the crap out of everyone (no kick attacks, unfortunately - let's hope for a mod that unlocks those). I am going to build up a third character - Conan the Barbarian. All strength and endurance, use grognak clothing and axe the whole game. It's fun when you make up your own rules about why you need to do certain things in the game.

If you haven't seen the Charles Barkley Dunk Jet video...



I'm hoping to get enough combat armor and military fatigues to outfit all my settlers to look like GI Joe, with laser weapons. Then I plan on spawning a whole bunch of synths (with their blue lasers) to attack, so it's going to look like Joes vs. Cobra.

Edited by Dino Might, 24 November 2015 - 08:00 PM.


#15 Lily from animove

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 04:57 AM

wait a year or two, donwload true fallout form the modder sites, be happy.

FO3 was kinda nice, felt like a morrorwind verison of fallout. It still had good RPG elements, yet not as much as the old FO's). But FO4, well it went the mainstream way of being FPS Skyrim. It may within itself be still a good game for what it is, but form a FO view it has not much left of fallout except the rough background setting.

@helmstif, FO4 has more factions, yes but how does this change the overal outcome to the game of what you do to and with them? there is no karma anymore in FO 4, so what you do in this game does not transfer over to other places and other peoples reactions towards you. FO4 has less real consequences. The old FO 1+2 had true restrictions already based by how you generated your character. The world always interacted differently towards you and the options you had were defined alone by these choices. In FO 4 this does matter not at all (you ar etoo much o a all capable superhumn amongst rats). Sure you can put restriction onto your char as a own created roleplay. But the game does not reward this with anything "new" it just will restrict you from a few features. And thats why many say, FO4 is the worst FO, not because its a bad game, just because its bad at what FO was uspposed to be and why it turned into the succesfull classic game it has been.

View PostSnagaDance, on 21 November 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Fallout Tactics has an undeserved bad rep IMO (yeah I played through it multiple times as well).

I thought the story suitably over the top (super mutant menace in 1, high tech military menace in 2, haywire killer robots in tactics) and I liked the pragmatic Brotherhood that still had its elitist trappings.

Nice selection of enemies as well. Going from Raiders to Beast Men (thought them nice and novel too) and those Tech worshipping Reavers and finally those nasty Robots.

I'm sure I'll play Fallout 4 as well (haven't got it yet), I guess I'll just hope for the best. :)


FO:T was not so succesful for me because it took freedom from you.you were rather much limited to these single "Commando" styled mission setups which even ontop were always the same.

Edited by Lily from animove, 25 November 2015 - 05:11 AM.


#16 Dino Might

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:18 AM

Not disagreeing with any of the points being made here - FO1&2 were masterpieces, and I just don't think we're going to get something like that again in the near future. Most of us have a limited enough attention span, that it's not worth the investment to make a modern version of those games, which would require so much more writing, coding, and testing.

FO4 already has a few hundred thousand lines of dialogue at least. If you wanted to make the experience more variable depending on what you did, then you'd need to have 10 or 20 times as much recorded. Just imagine the resources required to get what we want. It was easier when it was simple text based conversation. Older games had more depth because they relied less on graphics and sound and more on the player's imagination to see and hear what was going on based on what was written.

Now we have the graphics and sound, but not enough depth in writing, so now, we have to imagine the depth. I wish it were the other way around, but I still appreciate FO4 for what it is. So I create backstories for my characters. One guy is going to be a secret enclave assassin, dispatched to the Commonwealth to eliminate all organizational leadership to allow subsequent operations and conquest of the region. Obviously, the greatest threat to this plan is the noodlebot. He must be destroyed at all costs.

I have only gone through about 1/3 of the story, I think, so I am a bit biased, not knowing what's going to happen and still being excited to learn about it. But I can see where things are going already, and yes, the story is not that enthralling. So, I'm making up my own story as I go along. Doc Holiday already rescued his girlfriend and now has to reclaim his title of fastest pistol in the west. After he defeats the legendary gunner outside the Red Rocket Truck Stop, he'll go forth to meet up with his friend Wyatt to bring back law and order to the wasteland. He will stop in many a tavern along the way.

Edited by Dino Might, 25 November 2015 - 06:20 AM.


#17 Lugh

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:25 AM

Weird because frankly, I think it might be the best fallout game yet made.

Here's why.

1) Ultimate level of character customization, with perks more or less controlling how good you are at something rather Perks +Skills + Armor / Perks/Skills covers it all.

2) You say there is no story but you couldn't be more wrong. You want an open world and an open story, and you aren't following the minuteman rebuilding the commonwealth series of events are you? Oh you hate world building? Shame On you. There is something profoundly satisfying with changing the in game world and Seeing and Hearing that reflected in the game itself.
Take a small for instance. Travis the guy at the radio station that seems all uber geek and scared at the beginning, for me, having developed HIS story along with my own, is now like a calm cool operator updating the wasteland on big events that include and don't include me.
--The World itself SEEMS alive, because you can gain quests wandering the world at random or even just a little bit of exploratory purpose. I've ORGANICALLY discovered more quests in Fallout 4 so far, than are even found following the on rails story line of most games. That is AMAZING world building.
---How many of the available companions can you tell me about? How many did you actually do the work and discover in game without going to Utube just now? I'd imagine not many.

3) are you sad that there isn't as much scripted sex in it as there is in Witcher 3? Aww, you poor sad little soul.

Best game of all time? Likely not.
Best game of this year? Probably.

#18 Lily from animove

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 07:56 AM

View PostLugh, on 25 November 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

Weird because frankly, I think it might be the best fallout game yet made.

Here's why.

1) Ultimate level of character customization, with perks more or less controlling how good you are at something rather Perks +Skills + Armor / Perks/Skills covers it all.



you mean between
being good
more good then needed and
way too good than actually needed?

View PostLugh, on 25 November 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:


3) are you sad that there isn't as much scripted sex in it as there is in Witcher 3? Aww, you poor sad little soul.

Best game of all time? Likely not.
Best game of this year? Probably.


yes game lacks sex. It was in the other FO's and led to quite some interesting things. It is part of humans nature and a good RPG does actually involve it. Not talking about the "quality of whats shown" because thats rather irrelevant. But survival, food and a bit of sex belong into a realistic world, because they are the main driving components of humanity. So hey after you built all the cities can you even marry? (well we know the answer, it was just a rethorical question).

But I am sure some modders will soon implement the "mainstream way of half baked sex" into it.

The World is alive but it lacks some dynamic and consistency. All those raiders happily running in their damn own mines and traps? YEAH great thing, totally makes sense. How good a game actually does the RPG part is more defined by the details not the massively big and rough implemented features.

So think about it, what is it that makes your single character being the guy building loads of fotresses, uhh I mean settlements in a few weeks, while entire mankind struggled to do so for all these years? Instead they kept sitting in half broken houses "living" there not even considering to repair the most basic stuffs.

Yeah FO4 world is alive but it feels not real as in: "this feels like it truly would be 210! years after the bombs dropped." They still live in half broken houses with litter around that anyone would initually first clean off when going to live there. Many places actually lack the details to feel realistic. So you can build bathtubes out of material, and they still look old and rotten, while the wepaons you build look just normal. You can even build rather complex rifles, yet not even nail 2 bords correctly next to each other? What kind fo derp si my character actually? You scrap trees for wood and make baords looking 30years old. Surely if you only find these half rusty metal plates you ahve not much to attahc to your house as a roof, but wouldn't you clean of this rust first? or is the feeling of rust on your face just 2kool in the morning when wakign up under this roof? And these lack of correct details is what makes the game lack true soul and heart. Yes the game has features but they were just somehow put together to work. They do not correctly fit into each other nor "how it would really be if that world would exist"

It's not "recently" ater the war where people out of emergency slap anything togrther they can find.

For me, these details make a good RPG, because they add the true realism instead just a soulless "feature."

Edited by Lily from animove, 25 November 2015 - 08:07 AM.


#19 Surn

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 08:20 AM

Fallout 4 should have been more true to the table top.

#20 Mister Blastman

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 08:57 AM

View PostDino Might, on 25 November 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

FO4 already has a few hundred thousand lines of dialogue at least.


This is only because they recorded the protagonist--which is dumb in a first person game. It destroys all immersion.





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