8 replies to this topic

[Aeryk Corsaer]

I have been messing around with the Founder Mechs to see how I want to try them out. I do not play Assault class very often so really was trying to figure on what to do with the Atlas to suit my style. I reworked both the Hunchback and Catapult to improve them but did not modify the role, just beefed them up in my view and preference. The Jenner I sped up, increased jump, beefed armor and added an electronic suite of ECM, Probe, and TAG. Getting back on topic, I decided to change the Atlas to a defense/command role with more mid-range firepower. Here is a breakdown - would appreciate feedback.

Atlas Command - 100 Tons - Standard Structure, Engine, and Armor but Heatsinks are Double Efficiency.
Speed is 3/5/0 with a total of 16 Double Heatsinks for 32 point dissapation rate (via TT rules). Four of the twelve are not within the engine and one each are placed in the left and right arms/torsos respectively.

Armament consists of an ER Large Laser on each arm, an LB-10X in the right torso with a total of four tons of ammo (3 in the right torso and 1 in the left). This is to allocate to Cluster or Slug munition if that option is available {{Hopefully is... }}. If not, will not need so much ammo and will go with option below. Secondary weapons are a pair of SRM-6 launchers both connected to Artemis fire control systems for enhanced accuracy along with the standard center torso medium lasers.

Lastly, the legs contain a Beagle Active Probe (LL) and Guardian ECM (RL) suite. Combined with either the Command tree or defense options in the skill trees, this would allow me to find enemies and protect my lance from being located. The two ER Large Lasers and the LB autocannon can fire with no heat buildup in the mid-ranges. Critical to this build is the option to punch through armor with Slug rounds and use Cluster once the enemy is softened up.

Close-up, the Cluster rounds and the accurate dual SRM barrage will be deadly to any opponent that has holes in their armor from attempting to close. To conserve ammo, the entire laser compliment can be fired at running speed (TT rules) with no heat buildup at all or all but one ER Large for a no heat "near-Alpha" strike.

I recognize there is no CASE on this version. If there is no ammo switching with the LB, I would remove one ton of ammo for the LB 10-X (still may anyway) to put CASE in both torso . This would facilitate moving one of the double heatsinks to an arm. The double heatsink protects ammo in its own way by making three critical spaces "hitable" while removing it makes the ammo slots more likely to be hit due to a 'reroll' on the critical hit table.

Anyway, there it is guys and gals - let me have it!

Edited by Aeryk Corsaer, 10 July 2012 - 03:23 AM.

[IronGoat]

Aeryk Corsaer, on 10 July 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

I have been messing around with the Founder Mechs to see how I want to try them out. I do not play Assault class very often so really was trying to figure on what to do with the Atlas to suit my style. I reworked both the Hunchback and Catapult to improve them but did not modify the role, just beefed them up in my view and preference. The Jenner I sped up, increased jump, beefed armor and added an electronic suite of ECM, Probe, and TAG. Getting back on topic, I decided to change the Atlas to a defense/command role with more mid-range firepower. Here is a breakdown - would appreciate feedback.

Atlas Command - 100 Tons - Standard Structure, Engine, and Armor but Heatsinks are Double Efficiency.
Speed is 3/5/0 with a total of 16 Double Heatsinks for 32 point dissapation rate (via TT rules). Four of the twelve are not within the engine and one each are placed in the left and right arms/torsos respectively.

Armament consists of an ER Large Laser on each arm, an LB-10X in the right torso with a total of four tons of ammo (3 in the right torso and 1 in the left). This is to allocate to Cluster or Slug munition if that option is available {{Hopefully is... }}. If not, will not need so much ammo and will go with option below. Secondary weapons are a pair of SRM-6 launchers both connected to Artemis fire control systems for enhanced accuracy along with the standard center torso medium lasers.

Lastly, the legs contain a Beagle Active Probe (LL) and Guardian ECM (RL) suite. Combined with either the Command tree or defense options in the skill trees, this would allow me to find enemies and protect my lance from being located. The two ER Large Lasers and the LB autocannon can fire with no heat buildup in the mid-ranges. Critical to this build is the option to punch through armor with Slug rounds and use Cluster once the enemy is softened up.

Close-up, the Cluster rounds and the accurate dual SRM barrage will be deadly to any opponent that has holes in their armor from attempting to close. To conserve ammo, the entire laser compliment can be fired at running speed (TT rules) with no heat buildup at all or all but one ER Large for a no heat "near-Alpha" strike.

I recognize there is no CASE on this version. If there is no ammo switching with the LB, I would remove one ton of ammo for the LB 10-X (still may anyway) to put CASE in both torso . This would facilitate moving one of the double heatsinks to an arm. The double heatsink protects ammo in its own way by making three critical spaces "hitable" while removing it makes the ammo slots more likely to be hit due to a 'reroll' on the critical hit table.

Anyway, there it is guys and gals - let me have it!

i think until we can see what hardpoint restrictions the atlas will be saddled with, layouts are speculation.
IS ErLL take 2 crits, what if we only get one energy crit from the one med laser we remove?

also with double armor you may find case to be less usuful especially with a limited ammo load. you may find you use up your ammo long before your armor gets thin.

and as far as i know artemis technically doesnt do SRMS they do LRMs only. but again we have to see how MWO implements these things and what effect they have

the simplest thing i will do, wich i know is legit in MWO, is ditch the srm6 for more AC/20 ammo beyond that, i need to see the mechlab first

BTW this website can help you with some speculative layouts. its a mech building utility. you can even save your mech sheets for later ref or print out. Just set the rules for 3rd gen and the time for 3050 ( as close as i can tell to what MWO will be like)

http://remlab.source...lab30/build.lab

Edited by IronGoat, 10 July 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[wargonglok]

I like the idea of a command atlas. i don't like assault but that might be fun to try. good thinking, ill use an assault for my command ride. the commander needs armor and a sweet ride!

[Aeryk Corsaer]

IronGoat, on 10 July 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

i think until we can see what hardpoint restrictions the atlas will be saddled with, layouts are speculation.
IS ErLL take 2 crits, what if we only get one energy crit from the one med laser we remove?

also with double armor you may find case to be less usuful especially with a limited ammo load. you may find you use up your ammo long before your armor gets thin.

and as far as i know artemis technically doesnt do SRMS they do LRMs only. but again we have to see how MWO implements these things and what effect they have

the simplest thing i will do, wich i know is legit in MWO, is ditch the srm6 for more AC/20 ammo beyond that, i need to see the mechlab first

BTW this website can help you with some speculative layouts. its a mech building utility. you can even save your mech sheets for later ref or print out. Just set the rules for 3rd gen and the time for 3050 ( as close as i can tell to what MWO will be like)

http://remlab.source...lab30/build.lab

Thanks, found RemLab on another post - it is great. As far as hardpoints go, I watched the MechLab video again and crit spaces do not matter when putting weapons on, only weapon count. This is their way of limiting (not preventing) "boat" loadouts. For example, he removes the AC20 and the Ballistic hardpoint number goes up (3 available out of 3). The AC20 takes up 10 critical spaces but only one hardpoint. He puts an AC5 on and hardpoint changes to (2 of 3) even though it is less critical spaces. Lastly, he adds a half-ton Machine Gun to the right torso (incidentally the only place to put Ballistic weapons on the HBK-4G) and the ballistic hardpoint changes to 1 of 3 available.

The video shows a standard hardpoint availability, wherever it is, of 3 per section. This includes the center torso where there are only two critical spaces open anyway. The Hunchback in the video has its small laser here with 2 of 3 energy hardpoints open,The head is empty and with no hardpoint availability but this is where the small laser should be located; weird but true. The hunchback has three energy hardpoints on each arm, three ballistic in the right torso, "3" in the center torso with none available elsewhere. This means only 12 weapon slots on a hunchback total {11 really since CT can take only two small or med lasers or one large}. You theoretically, in the build of MWO used in the video, make a hunchback with 8 Medium Lasers (three each arm and two center torso) plus three machine guns in the right torso.

Your CASE comment seems something I wondered myself and through BT/MW canon, Artemis works with both short and long range missiles. Appreciate the feedback!

[Glythe]

wargonglok, on 10 July 2012 - 05:42 AM, said:

I like the idea of a command atlas. i don't like assault but that might be fun to try. good thinking, ill use an assault for my command ride. the commander needs armor and a sweet ride!

There was a poll about a week ago talking about the command tree (namely how many were going command for their assaults).

If you missed it you can read all about the tree here (assuming it hasn't been changed but have heard that it probably has):

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

You can see a closer look at the command tree here:

static.mwomercs.com/img/news/dev_blog4_02.png


Look at what this tree offers in terms of command vs attk/def. For 9 points you can get Call UAV, Satellite sweep, Danger close, Airstrike, and Artillery. Look what you get for 9 points in the other tree..... Yea those are nice things but nothing even remotely close to the utility of Command. The two things I want most from the middle tree are AMS increase and Critical Shot Reciever but both are buried so deep and you have to buy a lot of crap to get there.

I'd love to speculate what the Atlas 7D can hold but for now I'm only thinking about its known slots and how to optimize those. When we know what else it has available in terms of hardpoints we'll know the rest of the equation. I am hoping it has a few more HP slots we don't know about as you can look at the Stalker and see it is bursting with weapon spots. Are you really gonna tell me the Atlas is 15 tons heavier and has less weapon mounts? I feel certain the Atlas will have 3 weapon HPs in every chest and arm slot. All we have to do is wait.... and that seems so difficult right now.

Edited by Glythe, 10 July 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Aeryk Corsaer]

Glythe, on 10 July 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

There was a poll about a week ago talking about the command tree (namely how many were going command for their assaults).

If you missed it you can read all about the tree here (assuming it hasn't been changed but have heard that it probably has):

http://mwomercs.com/...le-warfare-cont

You can see a closer look at the command tree here:

static.mwomercs.com/img/news/dev_blog4_02.png


Look at what this tree offers in terms of command vs attk/def. For 9 points you can get Call UAV, Satellite sweep, Danger close, Airstrike, and Artillery. Look what you get for 9 points in the other tree..... Yea those are nice things but nothing even remotely close to the utility of Command. The two things I want most from the middle tree are AMS increase and Critical Shot Reciever but both are buried so deep and you have to buy a lot of crap to get there.

I'd love to speculate what the Atlas 7D can hold but for now I'm only thinking about its known slots and how to optimize those. When we know what else it has available in terms of hardpoints we'll know the rest of the equation. I am hoping it has a few more HP slots we don't know about as you can look at the Stalker and see it is bursting with weapon spots. Are you really gonna tell me the Atlas is 15 tons heavier and has less weapon mounts? I feel certain the Atlas will have 3 weapon HPs in every chest and arm slot. All we have to do is wait.... and that seems so difficult right now.

Thanks for the Tree link! I know it is speculation but the video (Beta, I know) uses 3 slots as default but the Hunchback only has one type of system (ballistic or energy in its case) in each location. Something like the Trebuchet or even Commando have two systems on one arm - will this mean you could put three missile or three lasers there in a reconfiguration? Or will it be maybe two energy hardpoints and two missile hardpoints, or maybe only one of energy but two of missile so the total weapon hardpoints is capped at three. We do not know and that is very hard to deal with now!!!

[Aeryk Corsaer]

The comment about the Atlas being bigger but having less hardpoints than the Stalker is valid to a degree. The Stalker, base model, will more than likely have no ballistic hardpoints at all like the Hunchback has no missile hardpoints. This means no big, bad AC20 or Gauss Rifle on a Stalker. Also, many commanders in BattleTech used the Atlas as a command 'Mech so it may have a higher amount of module mounts than the Stalker to compensate for hardpoint variances.

[Vaktor]

Really they should release the command cyclops or command Zeus... those mechs are better suited to be command mechs in the fluff... I will end this post the way I end many of my post however... We will just have to see how these game mechanics are implemented.

Edited by Vaktor, 10 July 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[Teirdome]

I do wonder if only lance commanders get to use their command modules or not. If you don't have to be the lance commander to use them, then I imagine everybody's going to go the command tree. Even scouts will be dropping bombs.

However, I don't like assaults as lance commanders unless it's a Steiner light lance (read: all assaults). From my understanding, all information on enemy mechs gets routed through the commander to his/her lancemates. If the commander is out of range of someone, then the rest of the lance doesn't get the overextended lancemate's targeting data. This means that the lance commander has to be mindful of positioning, which becomes extremely difficult in an Atlas/Awesome/Stalker.

This understanding was taking from the Command section of dev blog 3 here: http://mwomercs.com/...-3-role-warfare

Edited by Teirdome, 10 July 2012 - 10:43 AM.