68 replies to this topic

[cSand]

Stefka Kerensky, on 23 November 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

What about giving us back the mech-terrain interaction too?

*sheds single tear*

[El Bandito]

A 20 ton Locust can clear the base of the Citadel in River City without issue, but my 100 ton Atlas can't do it? Heresy!

[Deathlike]

You're talking about a sane idea regarding refining a terribad system.

We can't have nice things... there's too much math involved.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 November 2015 - 09:03 PM.

[Helsbane]

Navid A1, on 22 November 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

---> The info on game mechanics that i'm using is very old, so this whole thread might be incorrect <---

Source for current game mechanics: http://mwomercs.com/...ement-behavior/

Alright, so now everyone is aware of the changes in PTS4 that are going to go live early December.
The changes mostly include reductions to mech skill tree boosts to a mech's agility such as turn rate, acceleration and deceleration, etc.

One of the things that is going to be indirectly affected by these changes is how hill climb mechanic currently affects mechs in the game. The large number of clutter and small details on the ground with collision meshes slow down larger mechs to a nearly halt speed. With the agility nerfs, assaults (which were already hit by the nerfs) will have an even harder time recovering from those halts.

The current system only works by measuring the slope of the terrain mesh at every given time.
As an example, comparison between a locust and a direwolf in the current hill climb mechanics is shown here:



As you can see, the mechs speed reduction is affected by the terrain slope the mech is walking on. Lots of small and tiny clutter with collision boxes on maps can cause alot of sharp slopes, which combined with the usual rubber-banding in the game can cause a situation like this:



The problem here is that the system assumes the mech to be a rigid box, over-simplifying this mechanic, disregarding the mech stride length and height!, Hitting assault mechs hard in the movement department (assaults are already slow and clumsy... because they are assaults).
a 100 ton mech should be able to step over anything smaller than a small building:




Suggestion:
in order to take the stride length and height into account, one can define a stride boundary limit for each mech, which defines an allowable area a mech can step on things. if the terrain collision box crosses this boundary, then you can apply the current mechanic in order to calculate speed reduction, and possibly halt.
However, if the terrain collision meshes all reside in the boundary, then there should not be any speed reduction in any situation as demonstrated below:





Some examples:





Obviously, a dire wolf should have higher stride boundary than that of the locust, because of its size... so it should be able to clear out most of the obstacles!
Also, an atlas should have the largest boundary between the 100 ton mechs.. because its a humanoid.
Note that the locust in the above picture will halt to a full stop on the 80 degree slope, while the dire does not even see it.
Meanwhile, an atlas as a humanoid plantigrade should be able to step over all!

I like to hear you opinion regarding this suggestion!



I say again, the current mechanics may be different from what i assumed... so please correct me if i'm wrong!

PGI, HIRE THIS MAN!

[Blood Skar]

I salute your dedication to MWO Navid A1. <0

I cant see that it would be out of the realms of possibilities for them to implement something for the taller Mechs to step over obstacles easier.

My question:
Based on your diagrams i am seeing an indirect buff to Jump Jets? They are already a huge decision point for me - as to which mech i take. I guess this will be moreso come the next patch.
Dire Wolf can take JJ's so it wont be too much of a problem for that Mech.(I was surprised when i first found this out.. heh) But certainly seems like this will create problems for some.

Edited by Blood Skar, 23 November 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[Night Thastus]

Wow, this is a well though-out, detailed explanation. I enjoyed it. +1 support. Assaults right now are a major pain in the ass because of that terrain issue. Not only is it unrealistic, it isn't fun and it's seriously obstructive.

Anything that fixes it is welcome in my book.

[jay35]

El Bandito, on 22 November 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:

All I can say is, that the Assaults should be able to travel over small obstacles. In fact it should be reverse--larger mechs should be able to travel over obstacles, while smaller mechs should not be able to, and must rely on their speed to go around it.

Been saying this since the day they implemented this 'feature' of assault mechs getting stuck on pebbles back in 2013. =\

[Deathlike]

jay35, on 23 November 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Been saying this since the day they implemented this 'feature' of assault mechs getting stuck on pebbles back in 2013. =\

Pebbles OP, plz nerf.

[Navid A1]

Stefka Kerensky, on 23 November 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

What about giving us back the mech-terrain interaction too?

Spoiler

[Tuis Ryche]

adamts01, on 22 November 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

This makes too much sense to implement. Start over, maybe with insane nerfs and buffs.

We should have a weighted vote system to decide this.

[adamts01]

Tuis Ryche, on 23 November 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

We should have a weighted vote system to decide this.

The trolls would stack their multipliers and ruin that too. There's just no hope....

[Navid A1]

Navid A1, on 23 November 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

Just tweeted Russ about this.
He missed the point on his first response.

Hope he reads my clarification!

well...
lets hope those things are more than stat tweaks on the current climb mechanics

Edited by Navid A1, 24 November 2015 - 12:36 AM.

[Rashkae]

Imagine if an Atlas actually uses those Hand Actuators and reaches out to grab hold of a cliff while climbing it...

I think I'd faint.

Imagine if an Atlas actually uses those Hand Actuators and reaches out to grab hold of a cliff while climbing it...

I think I'd faint.

[Rashkae]

Imagine if an Atlas actually uses those Hand Actuators and reaches out to grab hold of a cliff while climbing it...

I think I'd faint.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

Stefka Kerensky, on 23 November 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

What about giving us back the mech-terrain interaction too?

Remember it was to much for the art team to handle at the time.

[Appogee]

You will need to come up with a way to monetise your idea, if you want PGI to actually change their code.

Edited by Appogee, 24 November 2015 - 03:22 AM.

[Rashkae]

Imagine if an Atlas actually uses those Hand Actuators and reaches out to grab hold of a cliff while climbing it...

I think I'd faint.

[Emeere]

Logged in just to give you my +1. Keep up the good stuff!

[MrJeffers]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 24 November 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

Remember it was to much for the art team to handle at the time.

No it wasn't the art. It caused massive server issues with hit registration and rubber banding.

[Commander A9]

Great assessment on how PGI's changes will screw things up even more.

They really shouldn't be screwing over the mech skills at all, honestly. It's another case of a developer fixing what isn't broken, and breaking it in the process.

Furthermore, why the hell do we NOT have leg-to-terrain contact!? This is 2015! Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries had it way back in 2002!

For God's sake, I want to play Battletech and Mechwarrior, not Call of Duty: Mechwarrior Edition!

Edited by Commander A9, 24 November 2015 - 09:05 AM.