38 replies to this topic

[Mauricio Gomes]

I own two mechs, a Catapult-K with stock weapons (I improved the armour, cooling and sensors), and a Catapult-A with splatcat build (6 SRM+Artemis)

The Catapult-A seemly never hit anything, even when I shoot point blank, except on the training grounds... On the training grounds it kills everything, on the game itself, sometimes I enter slugfests with someone right in front of me, I see explosions all over the guy, yet when the match ends I have a score of about 60.

The Catapult-K I frequently get 5+ assists in pub matches, sometimes 9 assists even, and a kill or two, yet I still end with 90 match score.

Why is that?

I assume the game has bad lag handling (I am from Brazil, so in a good day, my lag is 300ms to europe, and 150ms to the closest US server)

[MechWarrior3671771]

Its not lag, 150-300ms is fine.

It may be SRM hit registration. In the last few months, something has gone wonky with SRMs registering damage properly.

I would say more, but I'm not really knowledgeable enough to give good advice on your low match score issue.

Just didn't want you to think we were ignoring you. Someone who knows more than me should chime in soon.

[Rushin Roulette]

Try installing a TAG on one of your mechs (obviously not possible one the A1) and use that to range your targets within the TAG range. The aiming reticule changes colour from orange to red whenever you hit an opponent with any weapon (including TAG). That way you can see and learn where the opponent is even through lag. However a ping of 150-300 should not produce too much difference.

[MechWarrior3671771]

There is also a lot more to your match score than just damage. This is an older list and the numbers may be out of date, but it should give you an idea of all the things that go into increasing match score. You may be missing out on many of them:

Rewards 2.0 - What's New?
The new rewards system comes with a number of new rewards specially designed for role warfare. With Rewards 2.0 all rewards were re-balanced in order to be economical. Many rewards are based on a system measuring engagement/disengagement with enemy players.
Engagement/Disengagement Rules:

• Dealing or receiving damage makes you engaged.
  
• Depending on sight, distance and time since the last damage was dealt, timers work to see if you are still actively in combat or disengaged.

The following rewards are new or follow a different system now:
Scouting:

• Be the first to spot a target.
  
• Do not engage.

Flanking:

• Move behind an enemy Mech without being targeted by it and without being engaged.
  
• Deal damage to the enemy Mech from behind (out of sight).
  
• Reward has a cool-down of 20 seconds.

Kill Most Damage:

• Compared to all other players, deal the most damage to a target.
  
• The target dies.

Killing Blow:

• Deal the killing shot to a target.

Solo Kill:

• Achieve both "Kill Most Damage" and "Killing Blow" for the same target.

Capture:

• Being inside of a base while the base re-aligns.

Brawler:

• Get a "Solo Kill" in between 0 and 450 meters distance to the target.
  
• Be in a medium or heavy 'Mech.

Lance Formation:

• All players of one lance are in a distance of 140 meters to each other.
  
• The whole lance is engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 15 seconds if not interrupted.

Protected Light:

• Be in a light 'Mech.
  
• Stay close to a 'Mech that is at least 2 weight classes higher.
  
• Both are engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 8 seconds.

Protected Medium:

• Be in a medium 'Mech.
  
• Stay close to a 'Mech that is at least 2 weight classes higher.
  
• Both are engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 8 seconds.

Protect Proximity:

• Staying in a radius of 150 meters to a damaged friendly 'Mech (critical damage).
  
• Be engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 10 seconds if not interrupted.

TAG Damage:

• TAG a target.
  
• Damage is dealt to that target while target is still TAGed.
  
• Reward is multiplied by the damage dealt in points.
  
• Reward is only shown on HUD once finished or interrupted (total number rewarded).
  
• Reward is only given if the target is tagged for at least 2 seconds.
  
• Reward is only given if the target takes at least 5 damage.
  
• The reward has a cooldown of 2 seconds.
  
• This timer resets to 2 seconds with every point of damage dealt.
  
• Once the timer reaches 0 all the accumulated reward is given to the player/shown on HUD.
  
• The reward is finished when:
  
  • Tag is removed from the target.
    
  • The target dies.

TAG Kill:

• The user is tagging the target.
  
• The target gets destroyed WHILE being TAGed.

Hit and Run:

• A hit and run “Score” is generated based off an engagement.
  
• Every point of damage dealt counts for 1 point of score.
  
• Every point of damage taken counts for -2 points of score.
  
• If score is greater than 10, you are awarded with a hit and run award.
  
• If the total damage taken during the engagement is greater than 15 the score is zeroed and no award is given.

First Capture:

• Player gets the capture collector reward for a previously uncaptured collector.
  
• Can only occur once per collector per match.
  
• Does not apply to starting bases that are already captured.

Stealth TAG

• Player TAGs a target.
  
• Player stays out of the line of sight of any enemy.
  
• Player is rewarded every 6 seconds.

Rewards 2.0 - What is the New Balance?
Reward New Reward Given XP New Reward Given CB Component Destroyed 10 2300 Kill 30 4000 Death 0 0 Win 250 25000 Loss 40 10000 Assist 20 2500 Team Kill -150 -10000 Damage Done 0 21 Tie 75 15000 Capture Win 75 0 Capture Assist 50 0 Spotting Assist 20 2000 Salvage Bonus 1 0 Kill Most Damage 80 5000 Solo Kill 280 10000 Scouting 20 2000 Flanking 20 1500 Capture 50 2500 Capture Pulse 0 25 First Capture 60 4500 Brawling 130 4500 Tag Damage 0 35 Tag Kill 60 6000 Narc Kill 60 6000 Hit And Run 15 2000 Tag Stealth 5 150 Lance Formation 0 60 Protected Medium 0 65 Protected Light 0 65 Protect Proximity 0 55 Savior Kill 60 4500 Defensive Kill 60 4500 UAV Kill 50 0 UAV Locked Damage 25 1800 UAV Detection 20 250 Counter ECM 70 2500 Counter ECM Locked Dmg 25 500 Turret Kill 50 1000 Tag Narc 25 1500

[Mauricio Gomes]

Oh, good information there!

Still, I seemly don't do damage to enemy mechs, I had matches where I got several of the above mentioned things (specially flanking and brawling, obviously both is common when you have a splatcat).

Still, I see people on my team with medium mechs doing 1000 damage to the enemy team, while I do 50...

also I did noticed the crosshair flashes red when you hit, good when you are LRMing (since is the only way to know you hit with indirect fire), and when shooting with bad visibility, still, sometimes I see the enemy gettings lots of animation of explosions and sparks and whatnot... and the guy armor and crit health don't reduce.

EDIT: this only happen online, when I am on the "testing grounds", I can one-shot or at most two-shot any mech I see with the splatcat, while online sometimes the guy is legged right in front of me, and I hit him with 4 or 5 salvos and then he kills me.

Edited by Mauricio Gomes, 19 November 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Damage is unfortunately seems to be the most significant part of match score, the biggest damage dealers are almost always the highest scorers. That said with 200-400 damage I usualy exceed 150 match score.

You mentioned using the Catapult K2 near stock, it comes with PPCS, to hit with a PPC you will usualy have to lead the targer because they have a relitavely slow projectile speed, they are also useless inside 90 meters, the K2 also mounts Machine Guns which are useless past (I think) 240m with optimum range being 0-120. Is it possible you are firing out of range?
As for the A1 splatcat did you know that SRMs do no damage outside there optimum range? And that if you are too close to your target you may well miss to the side of the target due to how far apart the missile launchers are.

Unfortunately explosions are client side while hit registration is server side so it can look like you hit but the server thinks you miss, when you hit the target your crosshair will flash red, a red flash means that at least 1 missile out of tour 36 missile volly hit or that you at least grazed something with your laser blast.

[John1352]

You should go here: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=19 make your mech as it is in game and hit the save and share loadout button, then post the link. There could be something in you builds that is stopping you doing well.

Also with the Splatcat, try splitting the launchers into 3 on left mouse button, 3 on right. Firing 36 at once may be messing with hit registration.

This game has a really steel learning curve, it takes quite some time to get the hang of.

[Mauricio Gomes]

Oh, I see... The PPC I knew about its details... I see on my side me hitting a lot with it, but seemly don't work well though (although in one match I hit a sprinting artic cheetah 1000 meters away and insta-killed him, that made me very happy), while waiting for a forum reply I went in a quick match, and some enemy dude was with his back turned to me, I hit him with the PPCs 4 times, he just ignored me (he don't even fled, or twisted torso, he just stood there doing whatever he was doing), seemly I didn't do much damage to him.

Now the machinegun I didn't noticed it was that bad its range

SRMs I though the range was 400 meters? they stop doing damage before the missiles disappear?

As for the width of the catapult I noticed, and it is a serious problem, not to hit people in front of me, but to hit people in maps with wonky hitboxes, since I am a flanker, I am always skulking around corners, trees, buildings, canyons... and the catapult (both the A1 and the K2) instead hit invisible map hitboxes (example: in the skirmish forest map, the K2 pissed me off, it hit every single ******* tree near me, and never hit my target, that on the other hand could easily hit my giant shoulders).


Another question: I also play frequently with the trial raven (that has some cool lasers), and that trial IS mech with 3 pulse lasers, they also seemly do no damage, sometimes I stay alive the entire match, engage all enemies, and fire a lot (without overheating, I crank the most hits possible without overheating), and... yet I did at most 200 damage.

I even thought that it was the pulse lasers fault and that they were ****, but then I was reading some guide and found out that they are supposed to do large amounts of damage...

[The Basilisk]

Mauricio Gomes, on 19 November 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

I own two mechs, a Catapult-K with stock weapons (I improved the armour, cooling and sensors), and a Catapult-A with splatcat build (6 SRM+Artemis)

The Catapult-A seemly never hit anything, even when I shoot point blank, except on the training grounds... On the training grounds it kills everything, on the game itself, sometimes I enter slugfests with someone right in front of me, I see explosions all over the guy, yet when the match ends I have a score of about 60.

The Catapult-K I frequently get 5+ assists in pub matches, sometimes 9 assists even, and a kill or two, yet I still end with 90 match score.

Why is that?

I assume the game has bad lag handling (I am from Brazil, so in a good day, my lag is 300ms to europe, and 150ms to the closest US server)

What weapons are you using on that A Catapult ?
If LRMs, your enemy needs to be at least 181m away for you to make dmg at all.
Also they got a max range ( 1000m )
Do you push *R* and and wait till lock of your missiles confirm ?
If not they fly just blind.
In General missiles are unprecise weapons.
They are easily to fire but quite hard to use effectively.
SRMs and SSRMs got a max range (270m).
Above this range they do no damage.

Edit:
Standart PPCs got a minrange of 90m, below you do no dmg at all.

ERPPCs got no minrange, higher maximum optimal range, higher projectile speed but are absurdly hot.

ALLWAYS target *R* and whach your range indicator.

Pulse Lasers have a shorter effective range than beam lasers.

Edited by The Basilisk, 19 November 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Spetulhu]

Mauricio Gomes, on 19 November 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Still, I see people on my team with medium mechs doing 1000 damage to the enemy team, while I do 50...

Well, there's precious little left to shoot if someone does 1K damage...

It can't be just lag. I usually keep all servers checked (Oceanic, NA, EU) for quicker drops and even the ~300ms I get for Oceanic doesn't usually seem to decide the game for me. But once dead and riding as spectator in another mech some guys do seem to have trouble aiming or even shooting, as if their mechs just don't register a target or their mouse isn't responding well enough. Lasers veering all over, missile locks not kicking in even with a mech (not under ECM cover) right in front of them.

I'll assume your mouse sensitivity is good if you manage the training grounds, so do you play over a wireless connection? That could cause a great deal of trouble if it isn't stable. Or your PC might just stall under the load of 12 vs 12 matches if it's not that strong - do you fulfill the requirements?

http://mwomercs.com/...m-requirements/

[Mauricio Gomes]

Oh, good point... my computer has the infamous nVidia 640m GPU, that was supposed to be a medium end laptop GPU, but is just **** (nVidia made it by removing lots of transistors from the chip to make it cheaper and use less power, and then overclocking it... instead of being a cheap and fast chip, it is just a cheap chip that overheats easily).

The game runs at 15fps according to Overwolf overlay, it is not noticeable in the sense that is jerky or obviously laggy, but it is also nowhere near 60fps (that I think is the intended speed?)

[The Basilisk]

Mauricio Gomes, on 19 November 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Oh, good point... my computer has the infamous nVidia 640m GPU, that was supposed to be a medium end laptop GPU, but is just **** (nVidia made it by removing lots of transistors from the chip to make it cheaper and use less power, and then overclocking it... instead of being a cheap and fast chip, it is just a cheap chip that overheats easily).

The game runs at 15fps according to Overwolf overlay, it is not noticeable in the sense that is jerky or obviously laggy, but it is also nowhere near 60fps (that I think is the intended speed?)

Everything around 30 fps is ok and more is not that noticable except you are very youg or some diehard try hard pro.
15fps is quite low and should be blury when you move ( 23 fps is normal cinema frame rate )

[Kira Onime]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 November 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Its not lag, 150-300ms is fine.

Don't listen to this.
Ping around 120 is tolerable but nothing I would consider "good".
300 is just terrible ping.

[Kira Onime]

The Basilisk, on 19 November 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

Everything around 30 fps is ok and more is not that noticable except you are very youg or some diehard try hard pro.

Don't listen to this as well. 30+ FPS is VERY noticeable and depending on your setup, can be considered low to sub-average performances.

[Roughneck45]

Its has to be the SRM range. It's only 270m, and if you thought it was 400m I guarantee you are firing at targets out of range. Could be lag, could be hit registration, but more than likely the missiles are exploding mid air. You can increase the range with modules and quirks but its still only around the 300m mark after those.

Edited by Roughneck45, 19 November 2015 - 11:59 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Kira Onime, on 19 November 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

Don't listen to this as well. 30+ FPS is VERY noticeable and depending on your setup, can be considered low to sub-average performances.

30 FPS is fine, a lot of people literally do not notice a difference between 60 and 30 FPS.

About, ping, i start to notice weird hitreg at about 280ms and beyond, i do know, and i do play with folks from oversea who constantly have a ping of ~300ms, they are used to it and have no problem to pull 1k a match (or 2-3k for CW matches) with lasers and autocannons.
anyhow, unless the FPS drops down to 15 or lower, i doubt if will affect hitreg at all.

[Rogue Jedi]

Mauricio Gomes, on 19 November 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Oh, I see... The PPC I knew about its details... I see on my side me hitting a lot with it, but seemly don't work well though (although in one match I hit a sprinting artic cheetah 1000 meters away and insta-killed him, that made me very happy), while waiting for a forum reply I went in a quick match, and some enemy dude was with his back turned to me, I hit him with the PPCs 4 times, he just ignored me (he don't even fled, or twisted torso, he just stood there doing whatever he was doing), seemly I didn't do much damage to him.

the IS PPC has an optomum range of 540m, and a max range of 1080 meaning at 1,000m you are probably doing about 1.3 points of damage per shot, now if it is an ERPPC your range is 810/1620 so at 1km you are doing about 7.5 damage per shot

Quote

Now the machinegun I didn't noticed it was that bad its range
SRMs I though the range was 400 meters? they stop doing damage before the missiles disappear?

no sorry, Inner Sphere SRMs max out at 270m, if the target is 271 meters away you will not do any damage, Clan Streak SRMs have a range of 360 but all other short range missiles (including IS SSRMs) have a range of 270

also all missiles spread out, the less you fire the narrower the spread, fire 8 or less at a time and they will likely all hit, provided you are in range and on target, fire more than about 10 and some will miss, if you use artemus than 12 will probably all hit, if you are firing 36 SRMs you are probably missing with half the missiles, for the best possible accuracy chain fire the missiles 1 launcher at a time, but that increases face time, thereby making it easier for the enemy to precisely target you ^{(if they can see with all the screen shake the chain fired missiles give)}

Quote

As for the width of the catapult I noticed, and it is a serious problem, not to hit people in front of me, but to hit people in maps with wonky hitboxes, since I am a flanker, I am always skulking around corners, trees, buildings, canyons... and the catapult (both the A1 and the K2) instead hit invisible map hitboxes (example: in the skirmish forest map, the K2 pissed me off, it hit every single ******* tree near me, and never hit my target, that on the other hand could easily hit my giant shoulders).

for this I suggest setting your main weapons (PPCs on the K2 SRMs on the A1) left weapons to left mouse button, right weapons to rmb, so if your right side is behind a hill you just fire your left weapons and do not waste heat/ammo on the hill/building/ally you are partially hidden behind

Quote

Another question: I also play frequently with the trial raven (that has some cool lasers), and that trial IS mech with 3 pulse lasers, they also seemly do no damage, sometimes I stay alive the entire match, engage all enemies, and fire a lot (without overheating, I crank the most hits possible without overheating), and... yet I did at most 200 damage.

I even thought that it was the pulse lasers fault and that they were ****, but then I was reading some guide and found out that they are supposed to do large amounts of damage...

I am familiar with this, I will have what seems like an amazing game in a Spider, Cicada, Commando or Firestarter, where I get a kill or 2 and lots of assists, I hang in the fight most of the game and find I did 150 damage, then my teammates (on teamspeak) who were spectating me for most of the match cannot believe that I did not do 600+ damage, I guess it is hitreg related, sometimes it just does not want to cooperate

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 19 November 2015 - 09:24 AM.

[Ano]

It's pretty hard to diagnose without seeing some footage of you playing (a screencam recording or shadowplay or the like) and I suspect your laptop wouldn't much like that given it's struggling already.

That said, while low FPS and high ping will certainly be making it more difficult for you, my suspicion is that Rogue Jedi might be right when he talks about range. As others have said, missile damage doesn't fall off gradually with range -- either you're in range (in which case the missiles will hit, given correct aim/spread etc) or you're out of range, and they'll explode harmlessly in midair.

[Motroid]

Fenrisulvyn, on 19 November 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Its not lag, 150-300ms is fine.
snip

Well sir, that is one of the dumbest things I've read in these forums for years.
You can rest assured that "150-300ms" is NOT fine. It is ridiculous and has nothing to do with a proper realtime online game.
No amount of "host state rewind" or whatever fancy word they have for lag compensating will ever make up for triple digit latencies.
As it stands now every single game, and groupQ is much more affected but also soloQ, is heavily influenced if not decided by periods of lags causing no hits to register for critical seconds. Mechs that should long be dead are playing on causing damage later in the game that should never have been dealt in the first place.
To exploit this some players cause ping-spikes and mess up the game for the others. That technique is as old as online gaming itself and normally online games cope with this through an auto-punt function dropping off players that cause heavy ping spikes. Unfortunatly some half-assed free to play game like MW:O can't afford this for various reasons.

[Kira Onime]

LOADED, on 19 November 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

30 FPS is fine, a lot of people literally do not notice a difference between 60 and 30 FPS.
.

Possible but between that and saying there is no difference, there is a significant different.

Saying there is no difference is a flat out uninformed lie.