20 replies to this topic

[Helene de Montfort]

Well, i now have some experience in CW, worked for all houses as mercenary pug, did the Tukayyid event, been there, done that.

Do i end up with the feeling that i did my part, as small as that part may be? No... To be honest, i end up as having the feeling that my useless participation actually harm the faction i'm fighting for.

It's quite hard to come to the conclusion that the best thing you can do for your faction, is stay away of CW. Yet, it's true... Every time you drop as pug, and you end up against an organized team, you know you just helped them get an easy victory.

The way CW work, there's actually no point to make a call to arms for a faction. Better keep all those wannabe helpers, like myself, away.

I would really like to be useful to the faction i'm fighting for, even if i'm not that good. To have the feeling that by just being there, getting stomped, pounded, beaten over and over, i'm still helping my faction. To know that by showing determination, by accepting the beating, but coming back nonetheless, battle after battle, i still work for the final victory of my faction.

But currently, the best i can do for my faction, would be to register for fighting on opposing side...

[Jaxom Adar]

Not sound mean or elitest. Are you part of a Unit that Mercs out to the factions or are you pure Lone Wolfing this? I use to be solo, and then to get better matches and have a better chance in CW especially I joined a Unit. I know there are pleanty out there for Merc and Loyalist. All I think have dedicated TeamSpeak servers even. TS is free if you don't have a mic you can still listen. Many times even PUGS join in and group with the faction units and that alone can make a huge difference to your play experience as well as you usefulness.

[sycocys]

It's hard mode for solo pugging, would be a good idea to hop on faction TS or in the LFG.

That being said if you are willing to communicate and coordinate you can give any 12 man a good fight.

[bayoucowboy]

My very last match was with a coordinated Davion mixed unit group vs RJF. It was counter attack and they beat us. The way I see it, we had some fun with unorthodox tactics, didn't lose another wedge, and kept them tied up so they didn't drop on an attack and win another wedge. Come on over to the Davion TS (ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345) when CW is back on and drop with the other Davions

[Leone]

I started in CW as a pug. Most folk do. I died alot, spent my first few matches on boreal near the edge of effectiveness just splashing mechs with lasers getting like 300 damage and some 38 kill assists or something ridiculous. To be honest, CW's the reason I keep playing this game so much.

I mean, yeah, I like giant stompy mechs, and would prolly drop in a match here or there from time to time anyways, but CW keeps me coming back as my diversion of choice.

So, I kept at it, I lost, I learned, bought my own mechs, tweaked my builds, learned some more, old school, and one day, whilest trying to hold off a spawn camp while my team held back, back in the old days of dropships without guns right in the middle of the base on sulfurous, earned a comment from the unit I was going up against. I looked into unit play, tried forming my own, with out much of what most would call success, and eventually found a group of 'close enough minded' pilots to drop with.

Now I can run amok with impunity, knowing that half the time I charge madly into mine enemies, I'll have company. And really, what more could a brawler ask for?

Tell you what, Friend me, and when your tour is up we can try dropping some CW together. I'll show you what I've learned. You don't even need to join a unit, as long before I ever joined one I and eleven other pugs managed to spawn camp and defeat a full unit before, just by working together with mostly text chat, only minor voip used at all. You can even bring trials if my unit is still with the clans and you don't have enough mechs, I don't mind. I'd rather a trial pilot who plays well with others than a fully tweaked an mastered sniper trying to live out the whole match on one mech.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 08 December 2015 - 01:50 AM.

[John Gun]

CW isn't for solo players.
And by that i mean players not willing to comunicate or play as a team in the first place.

A Pug using Voip, listen to the dropleader if they are lucky enough to have one and play as a team can beat the unorganized Pug at the other side.
Or give at least some of the premade teams out there tougher fights then they may had thought.
And if you fight for a planet, binding a premade for allmost the full duration of a match, so that they can't hop into the next match after e.g. 10 min, thats helping your faction too in some way, because you might save an other group from facing that premade and maybe enable them to win were otherwise they might have lost.

The next, even better step, would be to join a comunications hub of your faction.
There you can easily get in touch with organized groups.

And there are the Units.
So far as i can tell there are Units out there for everyone.
Some are more strict into regulations and train multiple days a week, some are very casual, but even in a casual unit dropping CW is way more organized and fun then dropping solo.

To come to an end, the tools needed to make CW more fun are there, and if more players would be willing to use those tools i think it would be more fun for everyone.
From my perspective as someone dropping within a unit or organized groups, beating a Pug e.g. 48-28 or worse may be nice for points or c-bills, but the fun and what we enjoy the most are the really tough and close battles.

John Gun

[Rushin Roulette]

As you have been touring the various factions, you probably got to meet loads of units while playing together with them. Remember the factions you had the most fun with and the units you worked best together with and maybe you can look them up in the recruitment forums here and send them a message.

You did the best possible thing for looking for potential teammates. You went around and experienced them first hand ingame as opposed to their blurb in the recrutment advertisement (Which can honestly be a load of hyperinflated BS like in any other advertisement).

PUGging in CW is not bad.... If you work together with your team and they work with you then all is fine. The problems occur when you have too many soloderpers and John Rambos running around pulling everyone else down. Ideally these players would not exist and solo pugging in CW would be an enjoyable experience. The main reason why players who want to play well should join a unit is to minimise the risk of ending up with these soloderpers. If you are in a group of 10 players who all want to play to win or just troll around together, then you are only at risk of meeting 2 uncooperative players in that match.

[Sandpit]

Helene de Montfort, on 07 December 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Well, i now have some experience in CW, worked for all houses as mercenary pug, did the Tukayyid event, been there, done that.

Do i end up with the feeling that i did my part, as small as that part may be? No... To be honest, i end up as having the feeling that my useless participation actually harm the faction i'm fighting for.

It's quite hard to come to the conclusion that the best thing you can do for your faction, is stay away of CW. Yet, it's true... Every time you drop as pug, and you end up against an organized team, you know you just helped them get an easy victory.

The way CW work, there's actually no point to make a call to arms for a faction. Better keep all those wannabe helpers, like myself, away.

I would really like to be useful to the faction i'm fighting for, even if i'm not that good. To have the feeling that by just being there, getting stomped, pounded, beaten over and over, i'm still helping my faction. To know that by showing determination, by accepting the beating, but coming back nonetheless, battle after battle, i still work for the final victory of my faction.

But currently, the best i can do for my faction, would be to register for fighting on opposing side...

http://mwomercs.com/...ross-the-board/

check out some of the ideas there. I'm a PUG and part of a small unit. I know how frustrating that can be and I'm trying to come up with some ideas on how to help that situation

[Mochyn Pupur]

Although and I'm proud to say, I'm a long serving member of PL, most of my winning matches were in pug drops over the event due to time differences and real life as opposed to pre-made Legion ones. In all qualifying matches, the win was down to co-ordinated effort and determination to win. Yes, working as a team and/or pre-made makes things easier, but not guaranteed.

Fighting for Jade Falcon, I did notice a huge change in combat ranges, alphas and general up time due to heat containment changes, meaning that focused fire has become more important and this is true for pre-mades and pugs. I also saw that many people were enticed into CW that would not normally be involved and this lack of familiarity of the maps and tactics probably had a bigger effect than anything else on the field and having to rely on Trial Mechs to fill a deck out. Trials are great for what they are, but probably better in Company drops where you are better supported by experienced players. However, all credit to those taking their first steps into CW.

[Zibmo]

Leone, on 08 December 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

I started in CW as a pug. Most folk do. I died alot, spent my first few matches on boreal near the edge of effectiveness just splashing mechs with lasers getting like 300 damage and some 38 kill assists or something ridiculous. To be honest, CW's the reason I keep playing this game so much.

I mean, yeah, I like giant stompy mechs, and would prolly drop in a match here or there from time to time anyways, but CW keeps me coming back as my diversion of choice.

So, I kept at it, I lost, I learned, bought my own mechs, tweaked my builds, learned some more, old school, and one day, whilest trying to hold off a spawn camp while my team held back, back in the old days of dropships without guns right in the middle of the base on sulfurous, earned a comment from the unit I was going up against. I looked into unit play, tried forming my own, with out much of what most would call success, and eventually found a group of 'close enough minded' pilots to drop with.

Now I can run amok with impunity, knowing that half the time I charge madly into mine enemies, I'll have company. And really, what more could a brawler ask for?

Tell you what, Friend me, and when your tour is up we can try dropping some CW together. I'll show you what I've learned. You don't even need to join a unit, as long before I ever joined one I and eleven other pugs managed to spawn camp and defeat a full unit before, just by working together with mostly text chat, only minor voip used at all. You can even bring trials if my unit is still with the clans and you don't have enough mechs, I don't mind. I'd rather a trial pilot who plays well with others than a fully tweaked an mastered sniper trying to live out the whole match on one mech.

~Leone.

^^^^^^

This is the way to get people to play CW. Not "you're stupid for dropping alone" or "you must be antisocial if you can't make 11 friends" or "if you don't TS it, you're a loser and we don't want you around."

Would that there were more Leones in the game.

[edit] Sandpit, you and I don't see eye to eye in a lot (most?) cases. Played with you the other night and it was not as pleasant as you appear to be on the forum these days.

I am giving you props here. This post, and the post you referenced are the kinds of things that will make the game improve and cause a lot fewer cases of anger in the game.

No golf clap for you. Just a salute. O7

Edited by Zibmo, 08 December 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

I know I've been fairly vocal over the past few days about the PUGs in CW thing on other topics, but I think it bears mentioning here as well: Community Warfare is not meant for lone PUGs. It is meant for groups and units.

Now, I will be clear in that the act of putting yourself in the LFG pool and/or filling out some open slots on a planet and jumping on comms and being a part of a team constitutes 'forming a group'. Even if you guys part ways after that drop (which has happened to me far more times than I can count)

Like Leone, I have (and still do) go through the CW queue, get in the LFG section and join groups to try to fill out ranks. To put it another way, I do my best to work as a team and be part of a group, even if that group lasts for a drop or two.

That is what Community Warfare is. That is what it was designed for.

[Sandpit]

AnimeFreak40K, on 08 December 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Community Warfare is not meant for lone PUGs.

Sorry but that's just not true.
PUG = Pick Up Group

I played in CW and played in nothing but a PUG. Did quite well overall.

[AnimeFreak40K]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Sorry but that's just not true. PUG = Pick Up Group I played in CW and played in nothing but a PUG. Did quite well overall.

My general stance is to both agree and disagree with you.

I agree in that yes, PUG does stand for Pick Up Group, and that there are plenty of instances where such folks do well together. They group up and they form a cohesive force. They are using tactics and are working together as any group should. In this regard, there really is no difference between the people that happen to be in the same unit smoking and joking as they run around in their giant stompy robots shooting the crap out of giant stompy robots. I mean, most matches that I played in with any given tag really was, more often than not, no different than PUGging.

Where I disagree is regarding the sort of folks that come from the Solo Queue, they join in a game and pretty much don't do anything regarding following orders or attempt any sort of cohesion. These people adamantly refuse to get on comms or work as a team. These same people jump into CW and either function poorly en masse and/or bring down a more cohesive group due to their shenanigans, get their faces kicked in...and then complain about how terrible and horrible Community Warfare is for PUGs

The second group are what Community Warfare is not meant for. Now, if there is a more proper term to identify these individuals that better illustrates the sort of player they are (such as newbie vs. noob/n00b), then I have not heard of it. Rest assured that once properly educated on a better way to differentiate the two, I will do my best to do so moving forward.

This all being said, there is nothing wrong with not being part of a unit. I consider myself in the same boat as you (I'm about as Mercenary as one can get, come this weekend, I'm switching to FRR for 2 weeks). I don't have a unit and the majority of my matches in CW are formed because I pick a planet that looks good or I find something via the Looking For Group feature. In either case, I am more than willing to get on comms and do what I can to help my team.

[Sandpit]

AnimeFreak40K, on 08 December 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

My general stance is to both agree and disagree with you.

I agree in that yes, PUG does stand for Pick Up Group, and that there are plenty of instances where such folks do well together. They group up and they form a cohesive force. They are using tactics and are working together as any group should. In this regard, there really is no difference between the people that happen to be in the same unit smoking and joking as they run around in their giant stompy robots shooting the crap out of giant stompy robots. I mean, most matches that I played in with any given tag really was, more often than not, no different than PUGging.

Where I disagree is regarding the sort of folks that come from the Solo Queue, they join in a game and pretty much don't do anything regarding following orders or attempt any sort of cohesion. These people adamantly refuse to get on comms or work as a team. These same people jump into CW and either function poorly en masse and/or bring down a more cohesive group due to their shenanigans, get their faces kicked in...and then complain about how terrible and horrible Community Warfare is for PUGs

The second group are what Community Warfare is not meant for. Now, if there is a more proper term to identify these individuals that better illustrates the sort of player they are (such as newbie vs. noob/n00b), then I have not heard of it. Rest assured that once properly educated on a better way to differentiate the two, I will do my best to do so moving forward.

This all being said, there is nothing wrong with not being part of a unit. I consider myself in the same boat as you (I'm about as Mercenary as one can get, come this weekend, I'm switching to FRR for 2 weeks). I don't have a unit and the majority of my matches in CW are formed because I pick a planet that looks good or I find something via the Looking For Group feature. In either case, I am more than willing to get on comms and do what I can to help my team.

Solo doesn't mean not part of a team though.

When I drop solo, I drop assuming that I'm the "odd man out" and either listen to the group drop calling or i'll start drop calling. That's the difference between those players that want to just jump up and down about groups vs. solo

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever with in-game voip not to have the same advantages of anyone on TS. It's not "training". It's not "dedicated teams".

We run PUG. We pick up random players in the server that want to play. It ranges anywhere from 2-12 and rarely the same group together more than a couple of games.

It's nothing more than another in a long list of excuses players have been using since closed beta to explain why they should win more because they're obviously "much better" than the game says and it obviously has to be an imbalance in something other than them just playing poorly more often than not.

I can count on one hand in 4 years and well over a thousand matches how many times I felt me and my team lost a match due to a true imbalance or something that was OP or greatly imbalanced. If you're consistently losing, it's time to stop examining everything around you but you.

In poker there's a saying. If, within about 20 minutes of sitting at a table you can't figure out who the donkey or fish is, it's probably you.

[PFC Carsten]

Sandpit, on 08 December 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Solo doesn't mean not part of a team though.

This. THIS! T.H.I.S.

Dropping solo does not mean more or leass than part of an ad-hoc team. Hard mode, because you do not train together.

[Sandpit]

PFC Carsten, on 09 December 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

This. THIS! T.H.I.S.

Dropping solo does not mean more or leass than part of an ad-hoc team. Hard mode, because you do not train together.

It isn't even hard mode though. It is a very simple thing to coordinate with the rest of your team ESPECIALLY with in game VOIP readily available now.
It's really easy to listen to "E5 staging area" and go to E5
It's really easy to listen to "Focus target Charlie, center torso", and focus down on Charlie and shoot their CT.

It's only as hard as the individual wants it to be.

[PFC Carsten]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

It isn't even hard mode though. It is a very simple thing to coordinate with the rest of your team ESPECIALLY with in game VOIP readily available now.
It's really easy to listen to "E5 staging area" and go to E5
It's really easy to listen to "Focus target Charlie, center torso", and focus down on Charlie and shoot their CT.

It's only as hard as the individual wants it to be.

That's not the whole truth and you know it. It's practiced maneuvres, it's well rounded drop decks (I haven't seen a single IS-PUG team which was able to field 3 complete waves of TDRs or a single Clan-PUG that could do 12 ACH gen rushes, simply because they have quite random drop decks) and it's the higher chance that in a premade, more so in a unit, you have another level of motivation to participate (which is called disciplinary measures). Even if 10 or 11 of the PUG team work together, being one AFK or lone wolf down from the start greatly influences the match.

Having a lance's worth of trial mechs with yesteryears meta does not really help as well either.

[Sandpit]

PFC Carsten, on 09 December 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

That's not the whole truth and you know it. It's practiced maneuvres, it's well rounded drop decks (I haven't seen a single IS-PUG team which was able to field 3 complete waves of TDRs or a single Clan-PUG that could do 12 ACH gen rushes, simply because they have quite random drop decks) and it's the higher chance that in a premade, more so in a unit, you have another level of motivation to participate (which is called disciplinary measures). Even if 10 or 11 of the PUG team work together, being one AFK or lone wolf down from the start greatly influences the match.

Having a lance's worth of trial mechs with yesteryears meta does not really help as well either.

no it isn't
plain and simple

we PUG. We don't train together
at all
zero
we dont' practice together
at all
zero

Stop trying to tell me and others that I'm lying here because that's essentially what you're doing and I really don't appreciate it.

We have a couple of players who are lucky if they break 100 damage in a CW drop (that's 4 mechs) and we STILL do ok for the most part. It's not that hard. You either don't play with the right PUGs, don't have much experience in PUGs outside of solo dropping in the game, or you're being very insincere.

There's no magic formula or intense training involved or required. The only thing needed is the ability to work together as a team. period
you win some, you lose some, we win more than we lose more often than not, and stomps from either side are far and few in-between,

Also:
Again, using the "new player" shield in CW is irrelevant. CW is not new player friendly in that respect. New players have the academy and pub queues to cut their teeth and accumulate some mechs and cbills.
You don't walk into the Madden forums and ask EA to make "all madden" level easier because it's "hard" for new players do you?
No, you play at the lower skill settings.
Same exact principle here. People are asking to make CW "easier", not "new player friendly", when they have several options in the game for them to play in. It's not a matter of elitism, or noob hunting, or clubbing seals. It's a matter of CW is the hard mode area. If you want an "easier" game experience then play in the queues specifically designed for that.

Edited by Sandpit, 09 December 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Stop trying to tell me and others that I'm lying here because that's essentially what you're doing and I really don't appreciate it.

Re-read my posting if you will: I listed advantages that premades have over PUGs. Never did I say, YOU were part of any premade or PUG or whatsoever, which I do not know and do not care, nor did I say that all those advantages apply to all premades all the time.

You said:
[color=#959595]It's only as hard as the individual wants it to be.[/color]
To which I replied:
[color=#959595]That's not the whole truth and you know it.[/color]
More specifically, what I said in this regard was:
[color=#959595](I haven't seen a single IS-PUG team which was able to field 3 complete waves of TDRs or a single Clan-PUG that could do 12 ACH gen rushes, simply because they have quite random drop decks)[/color]

And that's the truth.

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Also: Again, using the "new player" shield in CW is irrelevant.

Please realize, that I do not use a new player shield for FaP, I use new players as possible source of income that, if they like the game, can help keep it running for all of us to enjoy.

[Sandpit]

PFC Carsten, on 09 December 2015 - 03:15 PM, said:

Re-read my posting if you will: I listed advantages that premades have over PUGs. Never did I say, YOU were part of any premade or PUG or whatsoever, which I do not know and do not care, nor did I say that all those advantages apply to all premades all the time.

You said:
[color=#959595]It's only as hard as the individual wants it to be.[/color]
To which I replied:
[color=#959595]That's not the whole truth and you know it.[/color]
More specifically, what I said in this regard was:
[color=#959595](I haven't seen a single IS-PUG team which was able to field 3 complete waves of TDRs or a single Clan-PUG that could do 12 ACH gen rushes, simply because they have quite random drop decks)[/color]

And that's the truth.

Please realize, that I do not use a new player shield for FaP, I use new players as possible source of income that, if they like the game, can help keep it running for all of us to enjoy.

I AM part of a premade
It's a PUG
we do nothing that you listed
Therefore you're saying that I'm lying about it

also?
The fact that you seem to think "good" relates to "all Tbolts or ACH" signifies that your idea of "good" is simply min/max and/or meta.

The real simple truth is that the above crowd represents about 2% of the entire community. The vast majority of players don't have the time, desire, want, need, or anything else to maintain min/max stuff. Those aren't numbers pulled out of my rear, those are numbers from PGI (Granted they are a bit out dated, but judging on the games, players, and forums it still holds fairly true).

The vast majority of players have no concern about min/max and meta and if that's what you base your idea of "good" on, well... we'll just have to agree to disagree.

This is where most people get hung up.

I am a solo player
I am a PUG
I am a 12 man dropper (always with random teammates and I don't think we've EVER had the same 12 guys repeatedly)

Everything you're saying and implying I stand in direct and opposite contrast to because I do well. My teams do well. WE do well. We do nothing special except
Clear battle comms
Listen to the drop leader
and coordinate using VOIP

that's it. nothing else. I'm not saying any of this to be condescending and such (plain text can translate poorly at times), but to simply point out that you and some of the other players here have a VERY narrow notion of how the game is played and the way you enjoy it or think it should be played is vastly different from the majority of players in the game.