23 replies to this topic

[Mauricio Gomes]

I own 2 mechs exactly, Catapult-A1 and Catapult-K2

I noticed a couple things about them:

1) Never they are first place in damage.

2) They aren't good damage sponge as some other heavy mechs.

3) They are probably the slowest of all other heavy mechs, even with ridiculous engines (my Catapult-A1 has the biggest XL engine it is allowed on the chassis).

Still, I really like the Catapult-K2 when my team cooperate, when people are drawing attention away from me, the K2 can with some effort kill people components (thanks to PPC + machine-gun...)


But I feel that I made a bad choice, specially because I had lots of matches where my team refused to help, or to wait the slow catapult catch up, they would just run ahead and leave me (and any other catapults) behind, making us target practice for the enemy forces, that then would easily mow us down.

Any thoughts on the subject?

[FlipOver]

I don't think your problem is the Catapult but the teams you are getting.

Unfortunately the mindless nascar kind of play is still in effect, and while that's happening, if you have any slowish mech (less than 70kph) you need to keep a close eye on the radar, notice the team moving and keep up as much as possible.

I know some maps are too short and a slow mech gets picked off if the pilot spawns in the wrong place, but even then you can minimize the risks if you pay attention to the start, and don't stand looking around (pop up the map at B key, check the other lances position and start moving towards them asap).

Regarding the last pass on Catapults, I have to say I'm tempted in getting them back (had 3 of them, sold them all due to hitbox issues), so don't just think it's a mech problem... sometimes the teammates or ever ourselves (without knowing) are part of it.

About the points you made:
1 - Damage done isn't as important as people think. Actually winning is what matters. Don't fixate too much on damage.
2 - Soaking damage highly depends on some key factors like: enemies skills - shot accuracy; personal skill to spread damage; hitbox and size; IS XL or STD engines. It's not just a matter of the mech being a good or bad sponge.
3 - I actually think they are fairly quick compared to other heavy IS mechs. But that all depends on the loadout and engine. Remember one thing, with a Cat, you can look at 180º ... you can't do that with any other IS heavy (provides you the ability to run from a foe and still shoot him back while running).

So, just keep these things in mind and possibly we can talk about loadouts in a near future

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

wait till after the next patch and the requirking to decide.

[Leone]

No. I've played with a few Catapult pilots, and whilest they may not be the mech for me, they can be a perfectly serviceable machine. As for speed, I routinely down gear my Inner Sphere mediums an heavies to Daishi speeds because slow speeds can be dealt with, and I appreciate the extra ballistics it allows me to bring. I have honestly managed to stay on the front lines with a 160 rating engine in a 55 ton mech before, just don't stop moving forwards, an you'll be fine.

When I see mechs get left behind an swarmed it is often because they stop to aim. Sure, hold off briefly if it helps, but get moving while your weapons recycle. Don't sit still and camp unless your already on the front lines.

~Leone

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Gorantir, on 25 November 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

wait till after the next patch and the requirking to decide.

very true.

As it stands, I think Catapults are fine over all, ironically I just dont think most of them make good LRM boats.

[Koniving]

Mauricio Gomes, on 25 November 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

I own 2 mechs exactly, Catapult-A1 and Catapult-K2

I would like to point out that there are a few issues with the mech itself in MWO.
One, it suffers from a scaling issue. The Catapults of Battletech come in two sizes, 8 meters (classic)
and 11 to 12 meters (stilt leg).


If it gives you an idea, the front wheels of this Tsar Tank is 9 meters tall.


Though the artist originally drew the Catapult as a 9 to 10 meter tall mech, PGI put in notes and edits stating that the scale should be over 16 meters. (the Atlas is 17.6 meters tall in MWO, but just under 14 meters in Battletech.)



As such, the mech is especially thick and bulky with oversized launchers...when those would be correct if the mech was closer to 10 meters tall (which is a happy medium between the two types of catapults).

The other issue is that the mech has a very large center torso with little side torsos (making it very XL-engine friendly). Funnel the armor to be center torso and side torso X/8 or X/2 where X is front armor at maximum possible and the number is rear armor as stated. You will find the Catapult to take much more abuse after doing this.

Never let an enemy behind you, and never take the front line. The Catapult is a medium to long range support mech. It is NOT intended for front line combat and both here and tabletop it will not fair well as the center of attention.

On a side note: This design has 126 armor. (The Locusts come stock with 128!!!!)

and tanks incredibly well. Design is in the video.

Tanking demonstrations with that design.

Edited by Koniving, 25 November 2015 - 11:49 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

the Catapult is certainly not the slowest Heavy, in fact most of the Inner Sphere Heavies go the same speed with max engines, and all the IS 65 tonners (Catapult, Thunderbolt, Jagermech) have the same engine cap for most variants. you have probably been grouping with Clan Heavies which are about 10kph faster
the Cataphract 4X is the slowest Heavy with a max speed of 59 or 64.9 after speed tweak

you mention that your K2 still has PPCs and Machine Guns, the stock weapon load-out, have you made any modifications to it?
If the stock load-out works for you that is great, however at the very least you should have put on Double Heat Sinks, preferably also Endo steel and used the extra tonnage for more heatsinks or a larger engine, also the MGs and PPCs do not have much of a range overlap so you cannot really use them both at once, and with the stock engine the K2 is too slow to be able to dictate its engagement range.

the stock build is this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c66679ea2db1253
if you want to keep the stock weapons I would recommend upgrading to something like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dea842b0a7a89a6
or if you do not care about the stock weapons perhaps something like this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f67bdf3f80c282b

of course feel free to completely disregard those suggestions and go with whatever weapons you feel comfortable with, my point is that the Mech will be a lot better with a few upgrades (assuming it does not already have them), I would certainly want a 300 engine in a Catapult but that is just me, I hate being slow.

[Tombstoner]

Stay behind the lines about 250 meters away. that gives you 750m for lrm's. Anything that gets in that zone will be hammered and that disrupts targeting causing some people to miss shooting your team mates. I use a max xl for top speed. 4 med lasers and 2x lrm 10's and chain fire them. It conserves ammo, spreads heat and doubles the amount shaking your target receives. people will lock if they have a reason. also add a couple of JJ so you can get some clearance when you need it. it helps to keep lock on and clear team mates.

Your roll is to provide medium range indirect fire and chase off light mechs. also try 2x ulta-5 and chain fire them don't alpha.

Remember above all else have fun and don't get caught up in min maxing.

[Fiona Marshe]

This is what I did in a completely stock C4 a few hours ago in a PUG match.



It may seem like a struggle, but practice, reading the map and combat flow and a half-decent team makes all the difference.

[Chados]

The Catapult is the only mech I have all variants of save the Founder version. My favorite of all is the Jester.

Yes, they are somewhat fragile and the hitbox changes mean they are not XL compatible anymore. The A1 requires the XL so it can bring backup SRMs, so you have to stay away from the front line. I run an XL255, and I have pretty much parked my A1C. But the C1, C4, J, and K2 can manage fine with standard engines. I run a 260 in all but the Jester, which is default with a 295. With the 260 and speed tweak the Catapult can run at 71kph, and the missile variants can carry 2xALRM15, about 900 rounds, and adequate backup weapons for the brawl. My K2 has PPCs, MLs, and a uAC5. The Jester does best with full defaults, just a little more front CT armor. They are best played like big Cicadas, using their agility to stay out of the clinch and doing hit-and-run drivebys in concert with the assault lance. The J and C1 have excellent torso twist, they can almost look directly behind themselves once you get TwistX unlocked, and I've given Arctic Cheetah backstabbers a nasty surprise when they see I can turn fast in place and follow them in the circle-jerk they like so much. A six-laser, 34-point alpha at short range makes them run like the cowards they are and look for easier prey.

I've broken 500 damage several times with the default Jester. They spread damage now but you can't present a side torso, no twisting to spread or you'll very quickly lose arm and ST, they're paper-thin. Face the target, twiddle it a little to spread, use terrain masking, and above all, keep moving. A stationary Catapult is a DEAD Catapult. If you're lurming, stop, lock, drop a few salvos, then hightail it because every medium and light on the map is gunning for you and they'll hunt you down. And you're not in shouting distance of the Atlas or Dire Wolf on your team, you're doing it wrong.

[aGentleWarrior]

I run my Catapult C1 with an XL300, no JumpJets, 4 ML, 2x LRM15 artemis.

Somehow it is my favourite mech which has a clear supporter roll.
First half of match I make sure I do not engage targets by direct fire (and get not attacked that way) I SPAM LRM alltime.
With quirks I guess I can get annoying ...
Unfortunately if you get a team which does not lock targets that can get frustrating.
On second half match I engage with 4 ML. That is not much, but takin into account that your opponents likely were already crippeled by your LRMs I usually still contribute. Just make sure you dont get seperated from team.
500+DMG games happen even to me, however I get a lot of assist and not many kills.


The K2 is ... somehow we are not good friends. The "arms" are very wide spread apart and I often shoot on obstacles etc etc. I had more success by using ballistics on that. 2xLbx10, 2xUAC5 and meanwhile stay with 2xAC10 + 4 ML.
However it is fragile, still center is usually taken out easily... also XL300 here, the CT damage ends the battles...

PS: the XL300 saved often the day, when lights gave me a hard time I often just ran in the middle of my teammates ... if they were not totally ignorant they help to get rid of them

Edited by aGentleWarrior, 26 November 2015 - 06:01 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

1. The Catapult is an "average" chassis.
2. It's 65 tons. Many other mechs that are popular on the field are heavier.
3. Speed is entirely dependent on mech tonnage and engine rating, so, it's no slower than any other 65 ton mech with the same engine.
4. The Catapult does have somewhat large hitboxes which makes it easy to hit. There are some buffs, and it's still an XL friendly mech because of it.
5. Only 6 hardpoints on any variant. Back in the day, that wasn't a problem, but now, you see mechs with 8+ hardpoints alpha-striking. That's enough to kill things quickly.
6. Missiles aren't all that effective weapons, which Catapults are mostly designed around. With the prevalence of ECM (until it's upcoming nerf), it's just not effective enough. The K2 does not have this problem and along with the Jester, are currently the best variants right now. Once balance is adjusted, that might all change.
7. Despite being mediocre, it's still a solid, easy to use chassis with a great torso twist angle. They are fairly maneuverable for being a Heavy, especially with JJ on most variants.

Oh and 8. Unlock all the skills. They are about to be nerfed huge across the board, but right now, getting all the way through elites to get the doubled basics makes a huge difference.

[Modo44]

Yes, the Catapult is bad. There are better quirked IS mechs (Thunderbolt), more tanky IS mechs (pretty much anything at 65-75 tons), and way, waaaay more versatile Clan mechs (any Clan heavy at the moment) at or just above its weight. It may be OK against new/bad players, but it will not do well against anyone competent.

Edited by Modo44, 26 November 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

At the moment Catapult isn't the worst heavy mech, but its definitely not in a good place. It is getting buffs pretty soon though, and they did just fix its center torso hitboxes (of course some dislike the change, but at least you don't get your center torso shot all the time even when turned 90 degrees anymore).

I'd say maybe mess with your loadouts, share the ones you are using so we may advise you on anything, and try to stick with the allied assault mechs rather than heavies and lighter chassis.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ is a good site to use setup your loadout and then share it.

[JediPanther]

The cat isn't meant to be first in damage. It's made to be a damaging mech from a distance. I have all of them. Unlike the other two missile focused C1 and C4, the A1 lacks an energy slot which means you don't have the tag laser. You need beagle active probe on it as a must to break ecm on your own. It will also speed up lock time. The most common load out is two lrms and two srm 6s. The 6s are good choice since you can fire them with out lock on and they do the same damage as an ac 20.

Always stay on the move with your team. Try and be about 200m minimal distance from other team members. When you can get them use a uav. I use it as a distress beacon when I've got enemies or a light swarm around me.

The K2 right now is the best of the cats. It is a very good mech and I recommend you keeping it. You can do a lot of mixed or focus range builds. You can do things like long range fire with er/ppcs,er lasers or be a face buster with two ac 20s.

When you have a light mech doing its circle of pew at you the best way to beat it is to reverse your mech in the opposite direction and aim for its legs. If its running to the right you reverse to left, using the cat's high torso twist you can keep it centered. As a light pilot I will run away and disengage any mech I know that is aiming only for my legs. With out the leg a light has max speed of 40 kph.

As for the mech not being good at damage, I've had them regularly take more damage than an atlas by using a standard engine,putting case on both side torsos and twisting the mech while moving. You see atlas die long before they get down to 20% hp.

http://imgur.com/gallery/K4vS0cu

[Rush Maguin]

Properly supported, a Catapult is very effective. If you can find a good firing position to rain down LRMs, you're in a sweet spot for the 'mech's use. I made changes to mine to carry extra ammo, then try to flank enemies already engaged with my team to bring my four lasers to bear. Sometimes you need good teamwork to maximize your abilities - TAG spotters and NARCs are a godsend if your team takes them - but if you keep in mind you're a fire support mech and not a front liner by nature, you can do well.

[JC Daxion]

Some say it's good, some say it's bad...My jester, While not my best mech, for me, my stats are darn close the my thunderbolt 5SS, which is considered one of the best IS mechs in the game.. My misery, another mech that is considered darn good, has nearly the same states. Out of 50, it's in my top 5... Only the top meta mechs i own have higher KDR's and wins.. Take it for whats it's worth, but i find them fine mechs.

the SRM/LRM models, to me are either feast of famine, But i do enjoy them. I play them in the medium range.. LRM brawler style.. aka 200-400m range.

I have not played them since the hit box change.. but i hear they tank a bit better now..

[Mauricio Gomes]

Yesterday I had some matches where my team played properly...

The result was me hogging all the kills with my Splatcat, the Splatcat can cut through the other team like butter if they are busy facing my team and I come from behind.

With my K2 and a helpful team I could also win with lots of assists and a kill or two...


Then I had a streak of back luck and kept getting into teams with assaults more interesting in kills than winning, then it sucked (I would usually get easily picked of, and the assaults would brawl around, end with lots of kill, but our team still losing).

A game that particularly annoyed me was when the entire team was walking in line, and the enemy team showed behind our team, I was the last mech (because like I said, catapult is slow), my team decided to just keep walking forward and leave me behind taking a beating from 6 enemy mechs, they ended being surrounded and quickly killed.

[Ano]

Chados, on 26 November 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Yes, they are somewhat fragile and the hitbox changes mean they are not XL compatible anymore.

Well damn. No WONDER my K2 seemed fragile this week. I forgot that the hitboxes had been tweaked. I tried to take the K2 out a couple of times with an LPL/XL build and died PDQ. I assumed it was a mixture of bad play on my part and the amount of time I've spend in EBJs recently. It could still be both of those things, but I probably need to rethink my build too.

Hmm.

[Vlad Striker]

Follow some big guy and shoot as fast as you can. Don't stay in hidden position try to shoot by direct fire. Big guy is your only hope Don't play hero and don't play solo. This is the recipe.