16 replies to this topic

[Dagor1]

Simple, They need to redefine what is called "suicide" In game.

If you are jumping and while in the air somebody knocks off one leg and strips the other, then landing and dying to impact should not suicide.

If you overheat and during that time somebody strips your CT and turns it red then before you come back online and die from overheat damage...again, not suicide.

There are others as well, but you get the point. Quite annoying to see that red "suicide" at the end. And on the other side. even more annoying to not get the kill credit.

One would think kill credit would simply be given to the last person to damage the area that caused the death...within a reasonable amount of time of course.

[Ihasa]

nah it;s fine

[Mistress Lilium Magnus]

lol that happened to me a couple of days ago with jump jets, except a combination of enemy weapons and JJ heat is what cooked me and the guy who was shooting me didn't get the kill.

That has to be the worst feeling, chasing down a mech (especially a light) and finally cherry-coring them only for your own attempts to cause their suicide.

They could probably put in a fix for things like that with relative ease but it would be a little heavy on the scripting side and I imagine they have a lot else going on right now, especially with Steam down the pipeline now.

Edited by Lilium Magnus the Bloodwitch, 28 November 2015 - 11:18 PM.

[Tuis Ryche]

Just give 'most damage' kill credit to whoever did most damage. Only 'pure' suicide should be counted as 'suicide' - running immediately OOB or OH without being hit by enemy.

[Scar Glamour]

I think suicide is just fine and there is zero need to spend dev time on it.

Maybe that's because I am not bothered by KDR or red figures at the summary screen. I am weird that way.

[Dagor1]

Well, Some are bothered, I am, I hate seeing red suicide when it was really a righteous battle death that somebody should have gotten the credit for.

[Juodas Varnas]

"Assisted Suicide" then?

[Light-Speed]

Tuis Ryche, on 28 November 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

Just give 'most damage' kill credit to whoever did most damage. Only 'pure' suicide should be counted as 'suicide' - running immediately OOB or OH without being hit by enemy.

Problem with that would be, of course, if in that case if the kill credit should go to the guy laser vomiting onto the victim's torsos or the guy sweeping the victim's less armored legs (bc, you know, not many go for legs) and was doing less dmg but was about to kill the victim before the victim "suicided".

Or if the kill credit should go to the LRM boat raining hell onto the victim or the teammate who stopped locking just just as the victim gets completely red.

I think there should be the separate rewards of "Kill Most Dmg" for whoever bashing the hell out of the victim because they were at least a distraction, "Most Dmg Dealt to Critical Component(s)" for whoever actually contributed the most to the victim's death, and "Killing Blow" as a smaller reward that mixes into the above or for whoever actually stopped the menace in its tracks (helping a teammate stop getting fired at by almost dead enemy might be seen as kill stealing by some).

[Canuck307]

I don't understand the need for K/D numbers to matter. So my opinion is likely different for that reason....

Why would this be a good use of dev time? I would much rather see balancing and content than something like this looked at. But that's because I can be down to one medium laser, run in and meat shield for my healthier team mates. I think of MWO as more of a strategy, team game. Than a I AM GOD 10.6 KDR!!!!!!!

In all honesty I would love a damage dealt to damage taken ratio. Mainly because I can do 1000+ damage matches with 1 kill... Or even avg. damage/match

[Light-Speed]

This isn't exactly an unimportant issue, for those of you who think otherwise.
Intentional suicides are basically a way of trolling because you are being an ass to the other side just because you can.
I don't care how you argue that your target suiciding doesn't impact you at all. It does sap the satisfaction, if not yours then definitely someone else's, of playing the game.
I am not running out of cover and taking those hits just to see the enemy go down in an animated spray of sparks.


Also, imagine losing some tournament because of those kills you missed because they were suicides, or more commonly, kills stolen. Kills are overrated, but they do seem to hold a lot of weight among many circles, which is why PGI should revamp the scores.

if I want to go on on rewards, there's the fact that Flamer induced deaths, especially overheats, should go to the guy with the flamer. By the way, did you know that if you narc in a light (I am sure you've heard of scout ravens before) nonstop the enemy team for an LRM boat who will come to do over a 1000 damage, you want even get 65,000 c-bills?


Rewards still aren't as good as they can be. PGI has improved it, but the parts about suicides and by extension kill credit are still fairly terrible. I know that PGI already have a lot to handle, and I admit that it is minor in the face of changes that are on the level of devastating the game, but arguing that PGI should neglect this part of the game is the equivalent of saying "Screw attention to the people's welfare" while going into a bitter war: what can be done should be done.

[Canuck307]

Nightingale27, on 29 November 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

This isn't exactly an unimportant issue, for those of you who think otherwise.
Intentional suicides are basically a way of trolling because you are being an ass to the other side just because you can.
I don't care how you argue that your target suiciding doesn't impact you at all. It does sap the satisfaction, if not yours then definitely someone else's, of playing the game.
I am not running out of cover and taking those hits just to see the enemy go down in an animated spray of sparks.


Also, imagine losing some tournament because of those kills you missed because they were suicides, or more commonly, kills stolen. Kills are overrated, but they do seem to hold a lot of weight among many circles, which is why PGI should revamp the scores.

if I want to go on on rewards, there's the fact that Flamer induced deaths, especially overheats, should go to the guy with the flamer. By the way, did you know that if you narc in a light (I am sure you've heard of scout ravens before) nonstop the enemy team for an LRM boat who will come to do over a 1000 damage, you want even get 65,000 c-bills?


Rewards still aren't as good as they can be. PGI has improved it, but the parts about suicides and by extension kill credit are still fairly terrible. I know that PGI already have a lot to handle, and I admit that it is minor in the face of changes that are on the level of devastating the game, but arguing that PGI should neglect this part of the game is the equivalent of saying "Screw attention to the people's welfare" while going into a bitter war: what can be done should be done.

It's not a matter of I don't care, so flush this idea down the toilet. It's a matter of a small dev team devoting the resources available to certain needs in the game. Just look at how long balancing has taken... Other small things like the damn monitors in the cockpit, still not resolved. As for tournaments, even when I play them. It does not take long to reach the goals. Not to mention if the goals are to far out of reach, an uprising on the forum appears and they tune down what is needed...

Stats wasn't even a thing until what, a year or so ago? People played regardless! It's the gameplay that should count as priority and not a bean counter that I have to log into the website to view.

I will say it again, just because I think it is a simple fact. Dev's resources are best spent elsewhere, then your kdr.

[Mistress Lilium Magnus]

I know KDR and stats aren't really important in a competitive strategy-oriented game, but suicides take away from earnings, and overheat ruptures you caused do. Then you end up having circumstances like that Nightingale mentioned, where you're a direct contribution to the cause of their death but get no gratification in the form of tier or experience or cbills because of it. It's an admittedly small loss but it can still be an incredibly agitating one over time.

Edited by Lilium Magnus the Bloodwitch, 29 November 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[Coolant]

I don't think what you are describing is a real problem, at least not one to be fixed immediately since there are limited resources. I'd say a bigger problem is people suiciding on purpose by running out of bounds or hitting Override and alpha'ing until they blow up. (Which I report regularly)

[Scar Glamour]

Nightingale27, on 29 November 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

This isn't exactly an unimportant issue, for those of you who think otherwise.
Intentional suicides are basically a way of trolling because you are being an ass to the other side just because you can.
I don't care how you argue that your target suiciding doesn't impact you at all. It does sap the satisfaction, if not yours then definitely someone else's, of playing the game.
I am not running out of cover and taking those hits just to see the enemy go down in an animated spray of sparks.


Also, imagine losing some tournament because of those kills you missed because they were suicides, or more commonly, kills stolen. Kills are overrated, but they do seem to hold a lot of weight among many circles, which is why PGI should revamp the scores.

if I want to go on on rewards, there's the fact that Flamer induced deaths, especially overheats, should go to the guy with the flamer. By the way, did you know that if you narc in a light (I am sure you've heard of scout ravens before) nonstop the enemy team for an LRM boat who will come to do over a 1000 damage, you want even get 65,000 c-bills?


Rewards still aren't as good as they can be. PGI has improved it, but the parts about suicides and by extension kill credit are still fairly terrible. I know that PGI already have a lot to handle, and I admit that it is minor in the face of changes that are on the level of devastating the game, but arguing that PGI should neglect this part of the game is the equivalent of saying "Screw attention to the people's welfare" while going into a bitter war: what can be done should be done.

I have a lonely tear running down my cheek. How could we forget about people's welfare in this dire time of need? How can we ignore the cries and woes of the unsatisfied by the horrible red numbers? How can we ignore the PTSD-inducing experiences of light pilots falling on their damaged legs until they die and others overheating right in front of their eyes?

We are horrible, horrible people and we should be ashamed! Quick we need to call feminists, so that they can start a hashtag war #lightlivesmatter and bully PGI into solving this crisis ASAP. This injustice will not stand!!

[Roadkill]

Dagor1, on 28 November 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

One would think kill credit would simply be given to the last person to damage the area that caused the death...within a reasonable amount of time of course.

Why bother? Everyone is already getting all of the rewards. The only thing you're not getting is the e-peen inflation from the meaningless stat.

Suicides are still deaths, so all death-related rewards trigger normally. So you're getting that precious Kill Most Damage Dealt and Assist. And since an Assist is worth exactly the same rewards as a Killing Blow, you're coming out even there as well.

I don't really want PGI touching any code that they don't absolutely need to touch.

Edited by Roadkill, 29 November 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[DAYLEET]

Just put a nice overheat death animation, of your character looking at his hands in fire, flesh spliting and screaming in agony while you hit the ground.

[Jman5]

Tuis Ryche, on 28 November 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

Just give 'most damage' kill credit to whoever did most damage. Only 'pure' suicide should be counted as 'suicide' - running immediately OOB or OH without being hit by enemy.

This is the only thing I would change about suicides. Although I would do it for all suicides regardless of method.

Edited by Jman5, 29 November 2015 - 12:16 PM.