40 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

Spheroid, on 27 November 2015 - 12:35 AM, said:

I don't see them moving on until they fill the gaps in the 3025 line up. As PGI has a mech sharing agreement with Harebrained for their pre-clan game this is highly likely.

Also by waiting until light fusion engines are in game they can add a forth pre-order mech with out creating one out of thin air. There needs to be less of that in general.

I doubt the Bushwacker will come out before Clan Wave 4.

As far as I know, there will never be a Wave 4, or a new Resistance pack. Pretty sure Russ said they were going to sell mechs a la Marauder style from now on.

It might be because they make more money. It might be because it relaxes the production timeline for development(one mech slightly more often vs 4 mechs per bundle). It might be, because they need to focus on certain ones for HBS to fulfill a contract. It might even be they are having a real hard time picking out a light/med/heavy/assault that has 4 appealing mechs in it, and are tired of the "I didn't want to buy this dud" complaints about the package deals.

As for Bushwacker, I have never been overly attached to it. It was the starter mech in MW3, but construction rules in that game ignored it's stock limitations. It was a mediocre mech in MW4, although with clan tech it could be made formidable in medium class, it was mostly a stout mech with a bit of "undergunned" put in. I suppose PGI could follow that, by giving it pretty decent armor/structure quirks and really good hitbox to make up for it's other shortcomings.

I do think Alex could make it look wicked awesome.

Bishop is right though, we have lots of unseen, and then I imagine clan battlemechs like Supernova(I hope) etc. before we get to "newer" IS designs.

Besides, I want a Thug for IS before another 55 ton. Also, this:

http://mwomercs.com/...54#entry4536954

There are a few obviously old designs in there that are very unique I would like to see for variety if we are determined to put all the mediocre mechs into the game anyway. DAT Gladiator though.

[STEF_]

Tarogato, on 26 November 2015 - 08:50 PM, said:

Like the poor Phoenix Hawk. I don't know why everybody wants another Vindicator so bad, but eventually it's going to happen and tears will be shed.

If you think the PNH is going to be bad, you are wrong.

http://mwomercs.com/...ext-unseen-pxh/

Much more faster, JJ, variant with ECM, variant with MASC.
With max engine it should run at 129 kph, tho.

[Bishop Steiner]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 27 November 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

The Bushwacker should have great hitboxes and solid hardpoint arrangements, similar to the Crab, King Crab, Cauldron Born, and (probably) Marauder.

Not sure if characterize any of those as "great" hit boxes

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 November 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

If you think the PNH is going to be bad, you are wrong.

http://mwomercs.com/...ext-unseen-pxh/

Much more faster, JJ, variant with ECM, variant with MASC.
With max engine it should run at 129 kph, tho.

Basically a faster Arrow, but with lower hard points and possible ecm.

Might not meta, but do want.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not sure if characterize any of those as "great" hit boxes

They roll damage well, and their profiles don't lend themselves to getting insta-gibbed the way that many other mechs do.

[Tarogato]

Stefka Kerensky, on 27 November 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

If you think the PNH is going to be bad, you are wrong.

http://mwomercs.com/...ext-unseen-pxh/

Much more faster, JJ, variant with ECM, variant with MASC.
With max engine it should run at 129 kph, tho.

I did a much more in depth analysis here: http://mwomercs.com/...-in-mwo-builds/

For the record, the max engine is 350, so the running speed will cap out at 135.45 kph (assuming Speed Tweak is 7.5% like on the PTS). But with an engine that heavy you only have 12 tons left for weapons and equipment. To go 129 kph you'd need a 335 engine, which leaves you with only 14 tons for weapons and equipment. By comparison, BJ-1X mounts 18 tons of equipment and has more energy hardpoints than any of the Phoenix Hawks likely will. So the PHX has to mount heavier weapons instead of being able to boat lighter weapons. Even if it mounted the same engine as the BJ-1X it will have weaker loadouts. The best it can do is 3x LL or 6x MPL. Perhaps 6x ML + 1x MPL. The only ballistic it will be able to use well is the AC/10, because it can't mount two AC/5's and it has low ballistic mounts so it can't use a pair AC/2s like the BJ can without getting vapourised from the facetime. So your options are basically AC/10 or laservomit, and again, it's likely that everything will be low mounted so at best this mech will be less good than the BJ-1X. And also don't forget, even if it does get a torso mount or two, most of its firepower will be in its rather large arms, and we know how well-armoured 45-tonner arms are. They're pretty flimsy, even with quirks. And don't forget, only one of the variants will get ECM (if we're lucky, two, but one will be substantially worse than the other, so maybe not so lucky) and only one will get MASC.

Like the BSW, I just don't see why people are so amped up about the PHX. It just doesn't look good on paper. Only a modeling miracle or some very outlandish hardpoint inflation (giving it more than 7-8 hardpoints per variant) could save it. And given that it has jumpjets, MASC, and ECM variants? Very unlikely.

Edited by Tarogato, 27 November 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Basically a faster Arrow, but with lower hard points and possible ecm.

Might not meta, but do want.

Yep!
The only reason I want it is because it was my fav medium back, very back, in the days.

Tarogato, on 27 November 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I did a much more in depth analysis here: http://mwomercs.com/...-in-mwo-builds/

For the record, the max engine is 350, so the running speed will cap out at 135.45 kph (assuming Speed Tweak is 7.5% like on the PTS). But with an engine that heavy you only have 12 tons left for weapons and equipment. To go 129 kph you'd need a 335 engine, which leaves you with only 14 tons for weapons and equipment. By comparison, BJ-1X mounts 18 tons of equipment and has more energy hardpoints than any of the Phoenix Hawks likely will. So the PHX has to mount heavier weapons instead of being able to boat lighter weapons. Even if it mounted the same engine as the BJ-1X it will have weaker loadouts. The best it can do is 3x LL or 6x MPL. Perhaps 6x ML + 1x MPL. The only ballistic it will be able to use well is the AC/10, because it can't mount two AC/5's and it has low ballistic mounts so it can't use a pair AC/2s like the BJ can without getting vapourised from the facetime. So your options are basically AC/10 or laservomit, and again, it's likely that everything will be low mounted so at best this mech will be less good than the BJ-1X. And also don't forget, even if it does get a torso mount or two, most of its firepower will be in its rather large arms, and we know how well-armoured 45-tonner arms are. They're pretty flimsy, even with quirks. And don't forget, only one of the variants will get ECM (if we're lucky, two, but one will be substantially worse than the other, so maybe not so lucky) and only one will get MASC.

Like the BSW, I just don't see why people are so amped up about the PHX. It just doesn't look good on paper. Only a modeling miracle or some very outlandish hardpoint inflation (giving it more than 7-8 hardpoints per variant) could save it. And given that it has jumpjets, MASC, and ECM variants? Very unlikely.

Taro, with that speed and lezors, it cannot be bad.
Also, my fav Phoenix Hawk in TT had 2erLL+2mpl.... (not a 3052 variant).
I don't care the meta.
Guys!...It's the Phoenix Hawk!!!!

[Sjorpha]

Drink.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tarogato, on 27 November 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I did a much more in depth analysis here: http://mwomercs.com/...-in-mwo-builds/

For the record, the max engine is 350, so the running speed will cap out at 135.45 kph (assuming Speed Tweak is 7.5% like on the PTS). But with an engine that heavy you only have 12 tons left for weapons and equipment. To go 129 kph you'd need a 335 engine, which leaves you with only 14 tons for weapons and equipment. By comparison, BJ-1X mounts 18 tons of equipment and has more energy hardpoints than any of the Phoenix Hawks likely will. So the PHX has to mount heavier weapons instead of being able to boat lighter weapons. Even if it mounted the same engine as the BJ-1X it will have weaker loadouts. The best it can do is 3x LL or 6x MPL. Perhaps 6x ML + 1x MPL. The only ballistic it will be able to use well is the AC/10, because it can't mount two AC/5's and it has low ballistic mounts so it can't use a pair AC/2s like the BJ can without getting vapourised from the facetime. So your options are basically AC/10 or laservomit, and again, it's likely that everything will be low mounted so at best this mech will be less good than the BJ-1X. And also don't forget, even if it does get a torso mount or two, most of its firepower will be in its rather large arms, and we know how well-armoured 45-tonner arms are. They're pretty flimsy, even with quirks. And don't forget, only one of the variants will get ECM (if we're lucky, two, but one will be substantially worse than the other, so maybe not so lucky) and only one will get MASC.

Like the BSW, I just don't see why people are so amped up about the PHX. It just doesn't look good on paper. Only a modeling miracle or some very outlandish hardpoint inflation (giving it more than 7-8 hardpoints per variant) could save it. And given that it has jumpjets, MASC, and ECM variants? Very unlikely.

While I appreciate your evaluation it overlooks 2 points: BJ-1X has no JJs. This can and does matter for many players and fighting styles, especially as Mediums actually jump pretty well. (The Vindicator is a pogostick), and 2, the BJ-1X has no ability for ECM which almost certainly 1 variant of the PXH has.

In short it is a totally different mech, fulfilling a totally different role from the BJ-1X.

Yes, the BJ-1X is better at metavomit, and maybe for Tier 1 Leet Uber Tryhards, that is all that matters. Fortunately, that is a very miniscule portion of the MWO population, and many of us have made a career on MWO running "bad mechs" and making Leets cry with them. (I was Novatarting long before Soy returned, and doing things claimed impossible with VNDs. a 110-135 kph, jump mobile mech with decent hitboxes can do a lot, though admittedly without knowing the hardpoint and any possible inflation, that could hold it back some.

But to cry something is DoA is a fun little game that tends to blow up in peoples faces more often than not.
For instance, assuming ballistics inflation, one could run max armor (minus 1 pt each leg), 300xl, 4xJJ and have 15.5 tons left, or 14 if it can mount ECM, more than enough to run a solid energy based (but no, not vomit... somehow Arrows live without it) with a say a quad of MGs. Or if a variant has some energy inflation, 4 MLs or MPLs with an LL, ERLL, LPL or PPC. And this is without using Ferro, which it has room for in most builds. (which adds 1 ton of usable tonnage)

So again, yes, it doesn't fit your precious and utterly boring meta mold... but believe it or not?

A lot of us don't care. And what's nice is you can make effective builds with engines ranging from a 250 thru that 350 if you want.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 November 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Sjorpha, on 27 November 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Drink.

Ah, there we go.

[Green Mamba]

You pilot one in the Start of MW3 Campaign and it was great. Still have a fondness for it...And it is still a good 55 tonner regardless what people say

[TheArisen]

The Bush would be mediocre at best. Mixed loadout, okay hitboxes, etc.

The Phoenix would be alright, the JJ & ecm would make a difference.

Personally, I want this.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nightstar

[Bishop Steiner]

Green Mamba, on 28 November 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

You pilot one in the Start of MW3 Campaign and it was great. Still have a fondness for it...And it is still a good 55 tonner regardless what people say

it was solid in MW3. You also had fully open customization. I ran a dual AC10 version, and it was indeed a beast.

Mediocre in MW4, to be charitable.

And the mechanics in MWO are akin to neither.

TheArisen, on 28 November 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

The Bush would be mediocre at best. Mixed loadout, okay hitboxes, etc.

The Phoenix would be alright, the JJ & ecm would make a difference.

Personally, I want this.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Nightstar

That's one huge Medium Mech.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 November 2015 - 07:50 PM.

[TheArisen]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 November 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

it was solid in MW3. You also had fully open customization. I ran a dual AC10 version, and it was indeed a beast.

Mediocre in MW4, to be charitable.

And the mechanics in MWO are akin to neither.


That's one huge Medium Mech.

Well if we're sticking to mediums there are 3 I'd like.
1. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Assassin this is the speedy 40 ton missile medium that we need.

2. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raijin 50 tonner with good hard points.

3. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Lynx This 55 tonner would outmatch the Bushwhacker easily.

[mindwarp]

You all seem to be forgetting the Bushwackers machine guns - it has one in each torso, mounted directly below the cockpit, either side of the ERLL. With the arm mounted AC, it has 3B, 2M, 1L. Depending on how the do the model, those ballistic slots in the torso could be really useful.

[Bishop Steiner]

mindwarp, on 28 November 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

You all seem to be forgetting the Bushwackers machine guns - it has one in each torso, mounted directly below the cockpit, either side of the ERLL. With the arm mounted AC, it has 3B, 2M, 1L. Depending on how the do the model, those ballistic slots in the torso could be really useful.

not forgetting them, just not impressed. 55 tonners don't multi ballistic all that impressively.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 November 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

not forgetting them, just not impressed. 55 tonners don't multi ballistic all that impressively.

Could probably do twin AC/5's maybe twin UAC/5's...

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 28 November 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

Could probably do twin AC/5's maybe twin UAC/5's...

The best I can think of would be 2 UAC/5 and 2 ML on whatever Bush variant allows it (requires hardpoint inflation of CT energy, or the BSW-X2 variant at least).

It's hard to Smurfys it, but I think it could use a XL300 engine with 5-6 tons of ammo easily. Might even be able to fit in FF for a little bit more weight savings.

Serviceable but not really a standout. Those side-torso ballistics might end up being mounted at the chin level below the cockpit, which might not be the best for peeking...

[Appogee]

LongJohnSilver, on 26 November 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

I remember in a town hall meeting a while back they said they don't really care for the timeline regarding 'Mechs anymore.

FTFY

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 28 November 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

The best I can think of would be 2 UAC/5 and 2 ML on whatever Bush variant allows it (requires hardpoint inflation of CT energy, or the BSW-X2 variant at least).

It's hard to Smurfys it, but I think it could use a XL300 engine with 5-6 tons of ammo easily. Might even be able to fit in FF for a little bit more weight savings.

Serviceable but not really a standout. Those side-torso ballistics might end up being mounted at the chin level below the cockpit, which might not be the best for peeking...

and we all know how well CT-centric DPS mechs do......

There's a reason that Gauss/AC10/AC20 K2s were somewhat viable, and UAC ones really have never been sustainable against halfway decent competition.

Staring is bad. And to maximize AC5s and UACs really don't work all as well for hit and run. Especially when your arms aren't gonna soak ANY incoming fire.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 November 2015 - 11:01 PM.