54 replies to this topic

[KnightKnownasNii]

Void Angel, on 07 December 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

This is why no one takes conspiracy theorists seriously. "The Question They Don't Want You To Ask?" Really?

You were told exactly why this helps players by PGI when they made the change - it reduces the difference between an un-mastered 'mech and a fully skilled chassis. It doesn't matter if their un-mastered 'mech is a trial! Time spent in trials argues for the change! Because while they're spending however much time trying out trials - which is what the trials are for - they're going to be getting a much more accurate feel for how those trials compare to 'mechs currently on the field. Sure, they're still not customized for that new player's skillset and preferences, but it's still better than the huge difference that doubled basics, or even Speed Tweak, made previously. There's no "disadvantage" for new players in not having to contend with established opponents with moreof an advantage rather than less - that's not just wrong, it's exactly backwards. Nor are new players going to magically miss extra bonuses they never had - no reasonable person looks at the time spent learning a game and says, "You know, I just wish my opponents had a bigger advantage over me as a newbie, so they could stomp me harder."

Inapplicable and anecdotal examples about previously existing games that went to Steam - all of which you simply cannot have played - are inapplicable and anecdotal. The real issue is whether the change to MWO makes sense for MWO; and it does. One of the biggest issues with this game has been the new player experience - since ever. Remember stock trials? The New Player Help forums are full of new players who aren't clear on what exactly is happening in matches, or how various game systems work - and who feel helpless as they are blasted apart without any obvious counterplay on their part by other players who've had some time to learn the game. Combined with the Mechwarrior Academy, the Skill Tree changes address many of the problems with the new-player experience. The answer to your super-troublesome question is glaringly obvious to any logical mind.

"/facepalm," indeed.

And this is why nothing gets acheived in a positive manner on these forums. People like this guy should be banned from the forums. If you can't respect an opinion of someone else, then ignore it. Otherwise, you are just proving that we are right and trying to put us down for no good cause makes you look like an idiot. There is a special name for your type though, and it is fitting. Did you know that trolls are ugly creatures that nobody likes? It's true! And I won't make an exception here either.

[Void Angel]

Thank you for respecting my opinion - your hypocrisy is showing.

[Dawnstealer]

They just need to go another direction and make real skill trees. Like...make people make decisions. Roll the quirks into it. Make it "either/or" choices rather than a "fill all the squares" platform.

[Void Angel]

That's actually been something they've wanted to do - they've talked about it several times. In the mean time, they needed to do something about the performance differential.

[Tesunie]

If you feel gypped on skill trees changing slightly (and I refer to slightly, as they were only ever intended to be minor boosts), then I feel gypped because Repair and Rearm are no longer in the game. I earned my first mech, a Hunchback 4J, having to fight my way through R&R and still earning c-bills. Now, people just earn so much more C-bills than I use to, and I now feel cheated because I had to work harder for my first mech than new players do now. (See? We can do this about any change in the game.)


Also, reference to renting a 4 bedroom and it suddenly changing to a 1 bedroom is irrelevant to this discussion. If anything, your Landlord just repainted the exterior of your apartment beige instead of white, and even that is a poor example. Real life examples for in game change comparisons are always poor examples.

[Void Angel]

Hey, that was my first 'mech, too!

[TDN Dreadnaught]

Cynosure is absolutely correct. I have 215 mechs. Ive mastered almost every Chassis I own. I do that because it is fun to take the mech from it's humble beginings and your inital build to the testing grounds. Run it through it's paces and feel the mech's power grow and your intuition of it's controls evolve through the grouling basics, and the enormous satisfaction of 10% speed tweak and the sweet relief of 2x basics that meant now: NOW I have a juggurnaut of destruction. You confuse yourselves folks. The mech you bought is a shadow. The skill tree isn't a perk. It's right of passage. The mech you OWN has Gold Wings. If the mech is great off the shelf then what use is there in mastering? What use is there in buying a new mech that is already as good as it is going to get? I wouldn't own mechs, I wouldnt spend MY MONEY on mechs that just.Exist. It's HARD because it's at a disadvantage? Duuuh. I mean seriously are you gamers AT ALL? Of COURSE a new mech is a challenge. Now go get yourself a Vindicator, a mech with no hope even when it IS mastered. Even in the hands of a decent pilot. Now you try and master THAT MECH on a Friday night when Twinky is on the prowl and the B33F isn't missing a shot and all the(RA) boys just said "Hi" from the wrong side of the map. Tier One....sheesh. Level THAT mech. No **** it's hard. And it was worth it. Everytime. 215 mechs...All those Gold Wings...Worth nothing. 1000's of hours. A Waste. There is no debate here at all. My name is TDN Dreadnaught, you killed my Gold Wings. Prepare to Die.

[aaykeem]

I started playing after the Steam release and I think elited mechs really feel different compared to 0XP ones. That said, I also think there is room to make the advantages a tad bigger to make the grind really worth it.

On the other hand, what really kept me playing after the cadet drops was the fact that there are no "upgrades" in the game. Every mech has it's place and there is no grinding to get a better version (apart from the c-bills you need to kit it out). You can basically make an account, buy a mech, outfit it and pull off a good match right off the bat.

This is the reason I am playing MWO and the reason why I stopped playing, for example, World of Tanks.
OK, the piloting a big stompy mech part helps as well.

[Bohxim]

Been playing for about 4 months maybe? So I'm just gonna give my opinion. I don't think it's that big a deal. Sure things have been nerfed down a little (alright, quite a bit), it is still an across the board cut. So if you feel it's sluggish, others are gonna feel it's sluggish too etc. At least they kept the speed tweak at a still respectable 7.5% and cool run and containment at stock. Those really makes a difference in a mastered mech IMO. Not to mentioned you get an extra module slot upon mastering the mech too

[Widowmaker1981]

Im going to screenshot every solo/group queue game for the next month and count the Dires. Unscientifically speaking (since i havent been doing that yet, just going off what i remember) I'm expecting to see something around 1 per 3-5 games. Because the mech has been utterly ruined by these nerfs, no one is playing it anymore, its too sluggish and fragile.

And youd expect the highest firepower mech in the game to be played a great deal, even if it is correctly balanced by agility, because a large percentage of people will go for the biggest possible cannon, if its usable.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 January 2016 - 05:17 AM.

[Tesunie]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 January 2016 - 05:15 AM, said:

Im going to screenshot every solo/group queue game for the next month and count the Dires. Unscientifically speaking (since i havent been doing that yet, just going off what i remember) I'm expecting to see something around 1 per 3-5 games. Because the mech has been utterly ruined by these nerfs, no one is playing it anymore, its too sluggish and fragile.

And youd expect the highest firepower mech in the game to be played a great deal, even if it is correctly balanced by agility, because a large percentage of people will go for the biggest possible cannon, if its usable.

Question: For CW (where 100 toners are less likely to be seen anyway) or Quick Play?

In my quick play, I still see a lot of Dires. But, then again I am also normally soloing in that queue, not in the group queue.

[Widowmaker1981]

Tesunie, on 13 January 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Question: For CW (where 100 toners are less likely to be seen anyway) or Quick Play?

In my quick play, I still see a lot of Dires. But, then again I am also normally soloing in that queue, not in the group queue.

quick play, and I play solo a fair bit and, anecdotally, almost never see dires anymore, and the rare times I do they tend to do very badly

[Tesunie]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 January 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

quick play, and I play solo a fair bit and, anecdotally, almost never see dires anymore, and the rare times I do they tend to do very badly

Well, I'm not T1, but I tend to see Dires about every match. Typically one if not two of them.

No idea. Maybe you just aren't noticing them as much, or maybe it's a tier difference. (If it needs to be said, I'm T3.)

[Widowmaker1981]

Tesunie, on 13 January 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Well, I'm not T1, but I tend to see Dires about every match. Typically one if not two of them.

No idea. Maybe you just aren't noticing them as much, or maybe it's a tier difference. (If it needs to be said, I'm T3.)

Could possibly be confirmation bias as i HATE driving them now. Even the HGN-IIC with an engine rating / tonnage ratio of 3.6 is extremely sluggish, and the Dire has the worst ratio (3.0) any mech will ever have unless its built by a complete idiot, its just way too situational - if the enemy doesnt play ball by running into your guns you are screwed.

Thats why im going to test it by taking a lot of screenshots.. Considering it has the most firepower potential the Dire should be the most popular assault (going by standard human/gamer nature the biggest stick is always the most popular, even when correctly balanced by agility - my argument is that either base agility is too low or the skill tree nerf was too harsh and its now not balanced - its crap)

[Tesunie]

Widowmaker1981, on 14 January 2016 - 06:24 AM, said:

Could possibly be confirmation bias as i HATE driving them now. Even the HGN-IIC with an engine rating / tonnage ratio of 3.6 is extremely sluggish, and the Dire has the worst ratio (3.0) any mech will ever have unless its built by a complete idiot, its just way too situational - if the enemy doesnt play ball by running into your guns you are screwed.

Thats why im going to test it by taking a lot of screenshots.. Considering it has the most firepower potential the Dire should be the most popular assault (going by standard human/gamer nature the biggest stick is always the most popular, even when correctly balanced by agility - my argument is that either base agility is too low or the skill tree nerf was too harsh and its now not balanced - its crap)

Most guns able to be equipped doesn't always pan out to most popular. You have people who select mechs for looks. You have people with different skill sets who will pick a mech based on their personal performance. You have players who look to what everyone else is playing and try to copy and play that (Meta followers). You have players who identify and play only the most efficient items in the game. You have players who use bots, cheats and hacks so that they can win (what? Don't look at me like that! We all know some players do this...).

I personally am not a very good assault pilot I work best with mobility over weapons. I'm best with medium mechs, no so good in Lights. Moderate with heavies. A Dire Wolf would be difficult for me to pilot personally. I have difficulty with the Atlas as it is, unless I place LRMs on it to keep me from recklessly charging in and dieing (which I sometimes do anyway, with or without LRMs).

I enjoy a good mobile middle ground. I like to be one to gather some intel on enemy movements, while typically running a flank, and supporting the team as they move. I'm not so keen on depending upon my team (unless it's a premade) to provide me with the intel I need to move correctly. I'm also not so enthused being the center of the army, and having the team depend on/ditch me. (I also don't like getting stuck on tiny roots, rocks and invisible edges so much either.)

I think the Dire is less used not because it isn't good, but because it's speed is rather slow, and people like to get into the action quickly. (We are also talking about the same group of players who couldn't wait 30 seconds for the match to start, unless everyone readied up. So, instead, once everyone connects we all jump to 10 seconds unless everyone is Ready, which practically removes the need for the Ready button completely.) There are many reasons one might not wish to play a Dire Wolf. Mobility and speed are probably two key reasons out of many though.