400 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

mikerso, on 05 December 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

Not gonna lie, the last two pages of this thread gave me a good laugh.

Who cares? It is a game!

Are there good and bad mechs out there? Yes, and there should be. You learn the most piloting skills by running a mech variant you are not comfortable with. It forces you to play differently. Sometimes you have to drive a Civic before you can drive the Mercedes.

Do clans and IS mechs have differences and possible advantages over the other? Yes, and again there should be differences and advantages. Different tech gives different results. Clans want quirks and IS players want omni pods and longer ranged lasers. Deal with what you don't have and play accordingly.

Does the win loss ratio on Tukayid prove anything? Yes, but it isn't that one group is more op with their mechs. It is that the larger influx of IS pugs causes an imbalance. Is this a bad thing? No, and it has an solution. IS drop commanders need to help the pugs. Drop in the pug queues and help lift them over their clan foes. As stated in the previous posts team work is the most OP thing in the game. Pugs need to know they have friends and communication. As I stated in the event thread, doing this could not only help with the event, but it will also help bolster our unit ranks. Constructive and positive game play will bring pugs into our unit homes. Then hopefully we can make a big splash in the event.

personally only a few clan mechs need perks.(Timberwolf and stormie don't need quirks at all) aside from the standard light perks. and if IS wants omnipods then ASK FOR AN IS OMNI MECH lore has already been thrown out the window and blown into space the timeline really doesn't matter anymore ask for a Sunder or another IS omnimech.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 December 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[Intactus]

Lol at this thread. I always thought the player base was a bit more... adult.

If minor tweaks in a video game get you that wired up, maybe you should just, you know, get out of that basement and get a breath of fresh air every now and then. It just might put things in a more reasonable perspective.

I for one think that stirring up the gameplay now and then does only good.

(Now i forgot why i came here..)

[Grothaus]

ObnoxiousGamer, on 05 December 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

Hey, I think I was in that match! You guys just rushed Omega for the entire game like lemmings! That was hilarious! The only reason you were getting 'creamed' is because your team was going for Omega and no kills throughout the game. That's not skill, especially if you were using consumables. Anyone can zerg-rush a generator, pal. It doesn't make you smarter if you win by overwhelming the enemy, and the fact that you got to the generators at all with 12 'mechs nailing you from all sides just proves my point.

This is at least one of the reason IS pugs fail so much. Most are incapable of using different strategies to win a match or playing this game differently then they would CoD. Teamwork is OP and what makes this game different. IS pugs tend to suffer from a number of issues.

1) Unable to Push effectively as a group. Selfish, no one wants to lead a charge.

2) Tendency to want to snipe and poke at the gate, and play MWO like it was CoD, the vast majority of my damage and kills come from players who are off doing their own thing, or have separated from the main group.

3) Unable to use any other strategy then just, "Kill them all"

4) Poor communication and teamwork, each one just doing their own thing, as if they were playing CoD.

5) Poor use of strategy, teamwork, unwilling to work as a team or adapt to the specific map and situation (and take Omega if need be)

6) a defeatist attitude, most give up and start rushing in like "lemmings" or complaining if they dont rollface after the first wave. because of course if they get beat by veteran players... it cant be their fault, it must be a balance issue and a reason to nerf others or be buffed even more.

PGI treats IS pugs like spoiled kids, coddling them and teaching them to not strive to be better players or work as a team.... but to play this game like mindless lemmings playing CoD, and if they lose, cry about it and get rewarded with buffs, and nerfs to other players.

Intactus, on 05 December 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

(Now i forgot why i came here..)

You came here to say nothing constructive, or even logical.... so i guess everyone who takes a deeper interest in this game and its balance issues and has more then 5 posts, are just children who live in their parents basement? and are just "gettin riled up about the gameplay bein stirred up"..... lol, im paraphrasing of course.

your 2 cents are worth about just as much.

[KursedVixen]

Battltech is not Cod or halo or any of those games< PGI and the gaming newbies here don't realize that and that is what will lead to it's eventual downfall that it's nothing special at all.

if PGI really wants to 'Balance the game they need to stop listening to Innersphere newb crybabies and start listening to veterans of the game.Then an only then can you truley balance it, from the top level of play not the bottom.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 December 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Intactus, on 05 December 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

Lol at this thread. I always thought the player base was a bit more... adult.

If minor tweaks in a video game get you that wired up, maybe you should just, you know, get out of that basement and get a breath of fresh air every now and then. It just might put things in a more reasonable perspective.

I for one think that stirring up the gameplay now and then does only good.

(Now i forgot why i came here..)

the word "adult" doesnt entitle anyone to act any differntly

[Grothaus]

KursedVixen, on 05 December 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Battltech is not Cod or halo or any of those games< PGI and the gaming newbies here don't realize that and that is what will lead to it's eventual downfall that it's nothing special at all.

if PGI really wants to 'Balance the game they need to stop listening to Innersphere newb crybabies and start listening to veterans of the game.Then an only then can you truley balance it, from the top level of play not the bottom.

exactly

and if balance is going to be based on how good/bad players perform, then it should be balanced based on the best IS pilots vs the best Clan pilots.

It makes no sense to balance a game based on trying to make new/inexperienced players = with veteran players,.... think about all the veteran players who enjoy playing in leagues/competitive drops.... those players represent some of the best players in MWO, core/loyal players, .... they deserve balance too...

Edited by Grothaus, 05 December 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[KursedVixen]

BLOOD WOLF, on 05 December 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

the word "adult" doesnt entitle anyone to act any differntly

Drop it blood wolf he just wishes to start an argument.

Though I agree.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 December 2015 - 02:08 PM.

[ObnoxiousGamer]

Grothaus, on 05 December 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

This is at least one of the reason IS pugs fail so much. Most are incapable of using different strategies to win a match or playing this game differently then they would CoD. Teamwork is OP and what makes this game different. IS pugs tend to suffer from a number of issues.

1) Unable to Push effectively as a group. Selfish, no one wants to lead a charge.

2) Tendency to want to snipe and poke at the gate, and play MWO like it was CoD, the vast majority of my damage and kills come from players who are off doing their own thing, or have separated from the main group.

3) Unable to use any other strategy then just, "Kill them all"

4) Poor communication and teamwork, each one just doing their own thing, as if they were playing CoD.

5) Poor use of strategy, teamwork, unwilling to work as a team or adapt to the specific map and situation (and take Omega if need be)

6) a defeatist attitude, most give up and start rushing in like "lemmings" or complaining if they dont rollface after the first wave. because of course if they get beat by veteran players... it cant be their fault, it must be a balance issue and a reason to nerf others or be buffed even more.

PGI treats IS pugs like spoiled kids, coddling them and teaching them to not strive to be better players or work as a team.... but to play this game like mindless lemmings playing CoD, and if they lose, cry about it and get rewarded with buffs, and nerfs to other players.

I don't think you got the point. My team WAS coordinating. Even with all our firepower, we couldn't effectively kill the clan 'mechs. And I wasn't using a 'kill them all' attitude; that was the point of the match. That was our only goal besides protecting the Omega points. We weren't poking and sniping the gates either, we were holed up in the base in different positions, waiting for the push, based on what our scouts had told us. Nobody was off doing their own thing, save for the two scouts.

About the defeatist attitude - I played a CW game last night where everyone was happy at the beginning, we were chatting and coordinating our positions. After the first wave of clan 'mechs had ROFLstomped us, it was pretty clear we weren't going to win. We continued trying to get kills and damage for the rest of the game, but it ended on something like 47-8. We only had two people lemming during the whole game, and we still lost that much mostly in our own base. Wanna know why? It was all pubs vs. a nearly-full SWOL group. Pubs, fighting what is currently the third-highest-ranked Wolf faction. How would you feel if you were in a pub team and came up against 12 or 14 members of the third-highest-ranked IS group? Would you cheer? No, you wouldn't. You'd probably get obliterated just the same as my team did.

And really, you think that IS groups never try to coordinate? You can talk all you please in pub CW, and somehow I think most of the team won't listen. On the few times I've seen coordination, about twelve 'mechs pushed into the enemy base at the same time. They were cored by medium-laser-barfing clan heavies in seconds, and the push was stopped cold. Granted, not all of the team was there, but we tried our best. And not wanting to kill Omega? On the rare occasion we get 'mechs into the base, it's because the clan team is in OUR base, looking for us. A group of five 'mechs on my team managed to do that last night. We poured fire into Omega for a good thirty or forty seconds before the heavies and mediums started to arrive, and only got Omega down to half health.

As for your statement 'teamwork is OP,' yes. It is. The problem is that there are so many more clan groups than there are IS groups looking for battles. IS may have more players, but clans have more groups by far. Of course, there's no MM whatsoever to balance this out, so almost every CW game sees IS 'mechs getting obliterated by clan groups.

And really, do you think that killing helpless pugs in CW teaches you to strive to be better? Seeing as how you say that IS pugs never have any skill, and that killing them is easy to you, how does that challenge you at all? The answer is, it doesn't. If IS 'mechs are apparently so OP that playing against them is a horrible and challenging experience, why do we see so many more groups in clan 'mechs? Wouldn't they want to have the best chance of winning? And don't tell me it's because they 'want a challenge' or something, because pubstomping in CW is the opposite of challenging.

In short: Get off of your high horse. If you think IS 'mechs are so OP and that your skill alone is enough to save an entire team, join an IS faction and win a game for a pub team. Against a clan group. You want whining? Look at yourselves. All you're doing is whining. You don't see many IS players on this thread, complaining about how they're being defeated (right now) 55% of the time, while the most IS coordinated groups are likely to be online, in 'mechs clan players are calling "OP." I wouldn't even be writing these if it wasn't for your complaints, as I understand that teamwork is the biggest balancing factor in any game. You have that factor on your side, you're winning more battles, and you still feel the need to whine about how everyone else is OP and has no skill. You're going to lose sometime: It's not a big deal.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 04 December 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

No, it's because the best clan 'mechs are still OP, compared to the best IS 'mechs. ... something PGI still needs to fix.

That said, the worst of the Clan and IS 'mechs still need some pretty significant quirks to get them on par with the pack of IS 'mechs and the second tier Clan 'mechs.

Welll... hummm ... no!
IS is better, in any way, to any of the best clan mechs! Go 1vs1, IS wins... go range, IS wins... go teamplay, IS wins... go lights, IS wins... Go DPS, maybe Clan can still win???? Maybe... go pinpoint, IS wins... go skill, Clan wins

All in all, with the quirks the way they are, IS will have the upper edge everytime. Some os the best comp teams are going clan in the event, not because clan tech is better, but because they can get drops, since MOST people is IS (for a damn good reason).
In my opinion, since PGI has simply droped the Lore into the bin, might as well use that argument to simply change all the game! Let me, as a clan pilot, use IS mechs also! Or, simply end Clan mechs once and for all, put the game at 3025 for example, make the 4th succession war happening.
What to do with our clan mechs and all the money people paid for it? Refund them!

So, no clan mechs / tech, no problems regarding balance and stupid things like quircks!
Once you are able to make the engine use 10 vs 12 or even 10 vs 18 (2 stars vs 4 lances) in CW, that will solve all your problems. 10 clan mechs vs 12 or 18 IS mechs, even with all the superior weaponry, it will be a damned tough fight.

What about pug drops? Simple, group them up toghther acording to IS and Clan. So, no clan mechs mixed up with IS mechs on a pug drop, so, no need to over quirk or thinking about balance.

I just saved you thousands of your money in developing, for free! You are welcome

[ObnoxiousGamer]

Spadejack, on 06 December 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

In my opinion, since PGI has simply droped the Lore into the bin, might as well use that argument to simply change all the game! Let me, as a clan pilot, use IS mechs also! Or, simply end Clan mechs once and for all, put the game at 3025 for example, make the 4th succession war happening.
What to do with our clan mechs and all the money people paid for it? Refund them!


I just saved you thousands of your money in developing, for free! You are welcome

You see those two bolded bits? They contradict each other. Also, you can't just "un-spend" money spent on game development. It's already gone, and you're showing your ignorance of game development here.

[Ovion]

Spadejack, on 06 December 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Spoiler

Welll... hummm ... no!
IS is better, in any way, to any of the best clan mechs! Go 1vs1, IS wins... go range, IS wins... go teamplay, IS wins... go lights, IS wins... Go DPS, maybe Clan can still win???? Maybe... go pinpoint, IS wins... go skill, Clan wins

All in all, with the quirks the way they are, IS will have the upper edge everytime. Some os the best comp teams are going clan in the event, not because clan tech is better, but because they can get drops, since MOST people is IS (for a damn good reason).
In my opinion, since PGI has simply droped the Lore into the bin, might as well use that argument to simply change all the game! Let me, as a clan pilot, use IS mechs also! Or, simply end Clan mechs once and for all, put the game at 3025 for example, make the 4th succession war happening.
What to do with our clan mechs and all the money people paid for it? Refund them!

So, no clan mechs / tech, no problems regarding balance and stupid things like quircks!
Once you are able to make the engine use 10 vs 12 or even 10 vs 18 (2 stars vs 4 lances) in CW, that will solve all your problems. 10 clan mechs vs 12 or 18 IS mechs, even with all the superior weaponry, it will be a damned tough fight.

What about pug drops? Simple, group them up toghther acording to IS and Clan. So, no clan mechs mixed up with IS mechs on a pug drop, so, no need to over quirk or thinking about balance.

I just saved you thousands of your money in developing, for free! You are welcome

You don't know how economics works do you.

Removing a minimum of 6 months full development time for the dev team it took to implement the clans, plus the additional time since would lose them.
According to the internet, they have 65 staff (don't know how out of date that is), and the average wage is around CAD$60-70k. Even conservatively estimating a dozen employees working on clans that'd be around CA$500,000 lost there alone (not giving a return).
Then you want them to refund every Clan purchase.
With an incredibly conservative estimate of around 10,000 total sales of each full clan package (Clan Wave 1, 2, 3, IIC) (averaging with single sales full packs), that's US$4,800,000 (about CA$6,500,000).

So conservatively your plan loses them CA$7,000,000.

But yes, you just saved them thousands in Dev costs, so it's OK (That's Sarcasm).

Edited by Ovion, 06 December 2015 - 09:49 PM.

[mikerso]

Hang on professors, let me get my pen and notebook for mechonomics 101.

[ObnoxiousGamer]

Ovion, on 06 December 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

You don't know how economics works do you.

Removing a minimum of 6 months full development time for the dev team it took to implement the clans, plus the additional time since would lose them.
According to the internet, they have 65 staff (don't know how out of date that is), and the average wage is around CAD$60-70k. Even conservatively estimating a dozen employees working on clans that'd be around CA$500,000 lost there alone (not giving a return).
Then you want them to refund every Clan purchase.
With an incredibly conservative estimate of around 10,000 total sales of each full clan package (Clan Wave 1, 2, 3, IIC) (averaging with single sales full packs), that's US$4,800,000 (about CA$6,500,000).

So conservatively your plan loses them CA$7,000,000.

But yes, you just saved them thousands in Dev costs, so it's OK (That's Sarcasm).

Thank you for your more accurate and detailed refutation of that incredibly ignorant comment.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Spadejack, on 06 December 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

Welll... hummm ... no!
IS is better, in any way, to any of the best clan mechs! Go 1vs1, IS wins... go range, IS wins... go teamplay, IS wins... go lights, IS wins... Go DPS, maybe Clan can still win???? Maybe... go pinpoint, IS wins... go skill, Clan wins
...

We're going to disagree here ...

1v1 ... DWF, TBR, EBJ, or SCR (and maybe HBR) vs. anything IS has in those tonnage ranges ... Clan wins. ~85 tons, and 45 tons and under, and IS wins. (Close, but Clans)

Ranged ... CERLL or CLPL wins over ERLL or LL ... not because the clan weapons are more efficient, but because the 'mechs that carry them the best can dissipate heat faster, are more agile, and more maneuverable. Add gauss back in, and Clans still win. (Clans)

Team play ... IS, Clan, doesn't matter. (Tie)

Lights ... yep ... one category where IS has the upper hand. (IS)

DPS ... per ton, absolutely Clans win. (Clans)

Pinpoint ... Gauss? ... Clans win ... other PPFLD ... yep, IS takes another one. (IS)

Skill ... see team play. A skilled team will win in what they are most practiced with and comfortable with. (Tie)

... When you break it down like that, it's actually pretty close. (Clans: 3, IS: 2, Tie: 2.) Balance between the two techs is better than it ever has been, but IMO it still favors the Clans.

[ObnoxiousGamer]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 07 December 2015 - 12:57 AM, said:

We're going to disagree here ...

1v1 ... DWF, TBR, EBJ, or SCR (and maybe HBR) vs. anything IS has in those tonnage ranges ... Clan wins. ~85 tons, and 45 tons and under, and IS wins. (Close, but Clans)

Ranged ... CERLL or CLPL wins over ERLL or LL ... not because the clan weapons are more efficient, but because the 'mechs that carry them the best can dissipate heat faster, are more agile, and more maneuverable. Add gauss back in, and Clans still win. (Clans)

Team play ... IS, Clan, doesn't matter. (Tie)

Lights ... yep ... one category where IS has the upper hand. (IS)

DPS ... per ton, absolutely Clans win. (Clans)

Pinpoint ... Gauss? ... Clans win ... other PPFLD ... yep, IS takes another one. (IS)

Skill ... see team play. A skilled team will win in what they are most practiced with and comfortable with. (Tie)

... When you break it down like that, it's actually pretty close. (Clans: 3, IS: 2, Tie: 2.) Balance between the two techs is better than it ever has been, but IMO it still favors the Clans.

And then, like I've said before, you get the large, coordinated groups going into CW as clans and they just stomp the crap out of IS players. Once again, given the general mood of the thread, I'm surprised you took the time to write a thought-out comment. It's nice to see that once in a while, and it's too bad that some people just can't do simple math.

EDIT: I'd disagree on pinpoint, though. Given that Clan 'mechs can simply mount more weapons, I'd say they take pinpoint as well. Plus, U/AC's of every kind is nice. Honestly, I just wish IS had more ballistic weapon choices. I'd love to make a usable U/AC-2 build of something.

Edited by ObnoxiousGamer, 07 December 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[s33b]

freud2b, on 04 December 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

The biggest problem is especially Twist for Direwolf who became unplayable ("Need CAMO with "FREE KILL for Light" )
PGI Seriously !!! You try to play that mech a single time since December 1 patch ???? Unable to turn around to avoid the draws lights and die with nothing to do !!!! that's the balance for you?

Please reconsidered to hand the former Twist especially for Mechs Very slow as Direwolf, Atlas, Battlemaster ...
Thank you

Ps: And change the time Gauss is really too nerf! 12-14 tonnes for anything now, it is really ridiculous.

I am fully agree with you.
Before the last patch it was hard to play the Direwolf against all those fast and jumping light/med mechs. Now after testing many of builds on my 11 chassis must i say, they will be stay @home in hope for better days for them.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

In my inexperienced, yet observant, opinion, IS lights are slightly weaker, Medium and Heavy 'Mechs are balanced, and Clan Assaults are stronger.

[s33b]

Lunatic_Asylum, on 08 December 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

In my inexperienced, yet observant, opinion, IS lights are slightly weaker, Medium and Heavy 'Mechs are balanced, and Clan Assaults are stronger.

i prefer hevy/assault mechs, and mean specially the Dire, my most played clan assault. They could have a little more speed and twist radius to make them more playable. After the last patch ,if you loosing a torso in a DWF(and this happend very fast) you can do nothing more with them ,not even chase an enemy mech with one leg ,that´s my experience.

[ObnoxiousGamer]

s33b, on 08 December 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

i prefer hevy/assault mechs, and mean specially the Dire, my most played clan assault. They could have a little more speed and twist radius to make them more playable. After the last patch ,if you loosing a torso in a DWF(and this happend very fast) you can do nothing more with them ,not even chase an enemy mech with one leg ,that´s my experience.

I can agree with this. Given the speeds lights are able to reach, assaults really do need a faster turn speed. This goes for clan 'mechs as well as IS ones.

[ThatGuy539]

shopsmart, on 02 December 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

BUG REPORT:

Seems to be one relating to the color selection screen. Don't know what causes it, but seems to happen with when colors are selected and owned. Will try to pin down. Mouse over what colors are there and nothing selectable OR some are and others not. Sometimes when switching around the number of owned colors diminishes.

I've seen this too, and had others comment about it in TS.

With me, I can access the top half of the colors sometimes, but not the bottom half. If I change away from Owned colors and then back again, it all works fine. (workaround)


PS: My random drop from the game seems to have stopped after I did a repair on the game.