58 replies to this topic

[Masterblaster57]

I would think that the commander would be in an APC somewhere away from the fighting so he could concentrate on his job or like today and use UAV's to gather data for his troops and issue orders from a base of operations

[feor]

Masterblaster57, on 06 December 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

I would think that the commander would be in an APC somewhere away from the fighting so he could concentrate on his job or like today and use UAV's to gather data for his troops and issue orders from a base of operations

Nope, battletech/mechwarrior exists in a world of neo-feudalism where mechwarriors are essentially knights in shining armour. The commanders lead from the front lines in their own mechs, and are often the most impressive warriors on the field of battle. I believe the Federated Suns/ Federation Commonwealth actually has a provision that the First Prince(cess) MUST be trained as a mechwarrior in order to hold the position.

[Iron Horse]

I thought about something like this before as well. Kind of like having a MechCommander as part of the drop team for an additional 25 tons (or whatever the balance may be) to eliminate the need for a command 'mech on the ground. Invariably this would lead to complications, however, as 16-slot lobbies (for 8v8 fights) might have to be expanded to make room for the extra player (I think 8v7 on the ground would tend to unbalance the game to where it would have to be 8+1 vs. 8+1, which is hard to implement).

Still a cool idea, but as Firefly commented, would not be worth the resources this would take to implement (at least at launch).

EDIT: As an additional bonus, your entire team would be able drop their C3 Slave unit and pack some extra gear, so maybe 8v7 would be worth it!

Edited by Iron Horse, 06 December 2011 - 11:27 PM.

[Masterblaster57]

In the first mech commander though in the opening cut scene the commanders of the invasion landings were in ships orbiting the planet. don't freak out battletech fan boys this is just what I saw.

Edited by Masterblaster57, 06 December 2011 - 11:28 PM.

[benefedaykin]

I have no objection to somebody sitting next to me calling down fire from the sky on my enemies and pointing my mechs TAG laser in the right direction so I don't need to worry about silly lock-on times.

As to how much fun it would be to play as person number 2... prolly not so much.

If implemented, the main pilot should be able to transfer control of certain weapons/systems to his co-pilot. Asside from the TAG laser senario above, having them in control of rear-mounted weapons would be nice. Also they could act as a spotter... damn House Liao and all those sensor dodging mechs...

EDIT: If the primary cockpit were to be destroyed, would command of the mech switch over to the Co-pilot? This might make a command mech last longer in the field... Thoughts?

Edited by benefedaykin, 06 December 2011 - 11:59 PM.

[Nataku]

Personally I would enjoy backseat driving and giving support information but I could definitely provide that information just as well while not actually in combat.

[Volume]

Masterblaster57, on 06 December 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

I would think that the commander would be in an APC somewhere away from the fighting so he could concentrate on his job or like today and use UAV's to gather data for his troops and issue orders from a base of operations</p>

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^ This, 100 times. I don't see why a commander would ever be in a 'Mech on the front line aside from some drama.

feor, on 06 December 2011 - 11:19 PM, said:

Nope, battletech/mechwarrior exists in a world of neo-feudalism where mechwarriors are essentially knights in shining armour. The commanders lead from the front lines in their own mechs, and are often the most impressive warriors on the field of battle. I believe the Federated Suns/ Federation Commonwealth actually has a provision that the First Prince(cess) MUST be trained as a mechwarrior in order to hold the position.

I played several games, including MW2, MW2:Mercs, MW3, where there are mobile HQs which are the primary objective to destroy.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mobile_HQ

http://www.obsidianp...le-command-post

It seems that the Tabletop also has had this for quite a while:
The standard Mobile HQ has changed little since its introduction into the SLDF; while its cosmetic appearance may vary from House to House, the core systems remain the same, although some minor upgrades in technology may have been applies – or in the case of the Succession Wars, the failure of technology and spare parts might have degraded its systems.

While it is a neo-feudalism style game with that knights-in-steel-chariots feel, there are practical elements at work here.</p>

[feor]

Masterblaster57, on 06 December 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

In the first mech commander though in the opening cut scene the commanders of the invasion landings were in ships orbiting the planet. don't freak out battletech fan boys this is just what I saw.

the "mech commander" system seen in those games was introduced during Operation Bulldog as an experiment. The mechcommanders were mostly just command and coordination officers (think Castle from MW4:Mercs) with the actual command officers out on the field in their mechs.

Quote

I played several games, including MW2, MW2:Mercs, MW3, where there are mobile HQs which are the primary objective to destroy.

Those are more strategic command centers rather than tactical ones. That's where the commanders go between missions to command far flung elements of his unit and prep for his next mission.

[Dihm]

Volume, on 07 December 2011 - 12:10 AM, said:

I don't see why a commander would ever be in a 'Mech on the front line aside from some drama.

Generally they don't. Any rank Colonel and higher wouldn't be on the actual battlefield. Company Commanders (Captains) are generally the highest rank you'd see out in the muck. The higher ranks are strategists and are in mechs less and less as they go up the chain.

[feor]

Dihm, on 07 December 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

Generally they don't. Any rank Colonel and higher wouldn't be on the actual battlefield. Company Commanders (Captains) are generally the highest rank you'd see out in the muck. The higher ranks are strategists and are in mechs less and less as they go up the chain.

Depends strongly on the individual commander. Victor Steiner-Davion was usually right out there on the front lines in Widowmaker (his customized Daishi) making his enemies feel the hurt. Same with Jamie Wolf, Phalen Kell, and 99% of the Clan Galaxy Commanders. Others prefer to lead from the rear.

The battles we'll be fighting will probably be company level or lower (2-4 Lances, so 8-16 mechs), and in almost all cases commanders of forces that size will be on the front lines doing battle alongside their men.

[Gorith]

I would think it completely depends on the scale.

Example in eve I used to FC alot I woulds take a combat ship while FCing assuming there wasn't more than 20-30 in my fleet once I had more than that I would always be cloaked up durring the battle... The more people there are the more attention is required both to analyze the data on the fly and to keep control of the combat force... If the scale is large enough it requires multiple levels of command (though I do not think we will get Battles that large in this game though it would be nice)

[Dihm]

feor, on 07 December 2011 - 02:47 PM, said:

Depends strongly on the individual commander. Victor Steiner-Davion was usually right out there on the front lines in Widowmaker (his customized Daishi) making his enemies feel the hurt. Same with Jamie Wolf, Phalen Kell, and 99% of the Clan Galaxy Commanders. Others prefer to lead from the rear.

That's why I said "generally".

[Conora Lance]

One possible way of implementing this into command 'mechs is for Commanders to have an NPC green pilot, whose job it is to move them and return fire while the Commander is busy with the command interface. Effectively it's an auto-pilot who would be able to take wounds and be KOed, which would render the Commander unable to do more then look at the maps and not switch to say... A battle overview with feeds from their pilot's 'mechs. At any rate when the Green Pilot is KOed they can't utilise the full range of Command resources and they can't use it at all in that engagement if the Green Pilot is killed.

EDIT: I forgot to mention to get the pilot do anything other then return fire, even moving beyond staying upright you'd have to order them via the command interface.

Edited by Conora Lance, 12 December 2011 - 04:36 AM.

[Alaskan Viking]

I really like this idea, and it wouldn't need to be restricted to command usage. Think of an F-15E, or F-14 wizo, or an AH-64D Apache gunner. The 'passenger' wouldn't just give out orders on the command screen, but also control the sensors, counter measures, and maybe even weapons control systems.

[Doolie]

Command vehicles were to function as relay stations for maintaining communications, and for implementing the commanders orders thru support networks. There are examples in the old fluff of commanders running a campaign from a command vehicle, but I think you find most commanders working from mechs. The vehicle is basically the HQ locale while the commander is out managing the battle.

I like the idea of implementing the second seat as a module you could buy and install. Maybe it would add perks to your TAG work, off board support, or information management, with the downside of someone actually had to be stationed in it. Makes for interesting ideas in getting experience as a team.

-D

[Sug]

You can just sit on my lap while I play.

[Fresh Meat]

sounds fine, as long as this is done at the cost of another mech pilot in the field. Also it would be nice if it was easier to get a "head shot" on a dual seated mech.

[Datum]

Judging by the fact that the average modern tank has a crew of 3 or 4, I actually think that single-pilot mechs should be less common. It has a far more complicated system of motion, not tracks, it has many different weapons systems on average, as opposed to one, and somehow is expected to be a commander as well in some cases. Looking at attack helicopters, those are complicated enough to necessitate separate gunners and pilots, if not out of necessity at least from the advantages of dedicated crew members.

Basically, yes. I like command consoles. Maybe it could be a module, even, giving huge command bonuses or something...

[Revya21]

It sounds like an interesting idea but in that case don't you think it would be better to have a spectator mode in which you could establish com with someone in the command role. To keep it balanced all you would have to do is limit the info the spectator can receive and could act like the "forward command" present in previous incarnations of mechwarrior's single player campaign but controlled by players of the same faction or merc corp. This would also avoid the "dumb *** pilot" complain of getting paired up with an incompetent pilot. Anyway, i don't think this should be a priority for a launch feature, i would be nice to have it included eventually but i'd rather see other features.

[IHateAtlas]

[EDMW]CSN, on 05 December 2011 - 11:45 PM, said:

Dual cockpits / Command consoles are fine if they have access to a Mech commander style birds eye view of everything.
But that might need additional work.

If they're going to do that, then put the commander in the dropship. No sense keeping him on the ground, if your scout goes down, you lose most of your intel, so it balances out from there.

So, the difficult part of this idea, is what kind of advantage is the commander going to have being on the ground, than in the "dropship"?

Edited by IHateAtlas, 24 March 2012 - 04:06 PM.