10 replies to this topic

[Greyhart]

Card on the table: I don't play CW because of time constraints and honestly I am not familiar with all the mechanics (hopefully phase 3 will be better).

anyway I understand that the Clans have collapsed due to large merc units switching sides. Now assuming that these merc units are not super skilled and that IS hasn't suddenly become massively OPed this means that simple weight of numbers is the determining factor in CW.

Now of course in any war if the other side has substantially more man power they are likely to win. However there is usually a limit of the amount of men and materials that a nation can put into a war effort because all of that has to be paid for.

At the moment in CW there appears to be no limit on the amount of men and materials. So theoretically the entire player base could join clan wolf and conquer the galaxy.

It appears to me therefore the solution is not to place caps on the number of players in a unit but to place caps on the money that can be earned from one faction during a period.

If each faction had a budget to spend on mercs then they could offer contracts in line with that budget. If merc units had overheads to pay they would have to take contracts that covered those overheads.

Assuming overheads increased with the number of mechs used then by natural attrition the larger companies would reduce. Because 1. no single faction could afford to employ all of them (even if they were in smaller companies) and 2. the overheads would cripple the super large unit.

But if a large unit was casual so making less drops their overheads would be less and therefore casual companies could take less well paid contracts as they would have lower overheads.

Of course this then creates a problem for units that get no contract during a period. But that might be dealt with by allowing their members to play as lone wolves during this period i.e. keep them in the game.

There are of course all sorts of difficulties, but also opportunities for loyalists to create success requirement in merc contracts.

[BSK]

Most of this is wrong because you don't play cw to speak from experience. Why write so much then?

There are MANY people in clan wolf due to its popularity from the lore and because of events like Tukayyid. But these are mostly new players who ignore the warning given before they start cw. THIS made large merc units like mine leave the wolfs, as it was unbearable to play with absolute beginners when you didnt't have a full dropship.
Why the clans lose territory? Because you can't use trial mechs twice, so new players HAVE to put a 100 ton King Crab or Atlas into their dropdeck and therefor you see at least 4 of these assaults in each one of the 4 waves. Any new player can get a kill or wreck a Timber Wolf with 4UAC5 when you have too many of those hiding competetive players in your drop ..

[Greyhart]

So the reason for the collapse is that no good players are willing to play for the clans any more and they have to make do with new players.

therefore logically the clans should have an ability to offer a better rate of pay to good/ experienced merc units if most of their fighting is done by new players.

As there is no difference between fighting for one faction over another logically a merc company therefore goes to the one that provides the best chance of winning (as this provides the best rewards).

So in this situation the clans should be able to attract experienced players with more profitable contracts

ps yes I a ignorant of the CW and I am happy to be corrected (most of this is theory)

Edited by Greyhart, 04 January 2016 - 02:51 AM.

[Dashen]

Greyhart, on 04 January 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

So the reason for the collapse is that no good players are willing to play for the clans any more and they have to make do with new players.

therefore logically the clans should have an ability to offer a better rate of pay to good/ experienced merc units if most of their fighting is done by new players.

As there is no difference between fighting for one faction over another logically a merc company therefore goes to the one that provides the best chance of winning (as this provides the best rewards).

So in this situation the clans should be able to attract experienced players with more profitable contracts

ps yes I a ignorant of the CW and I am happy to be corrected (most of this is theory)

Nah, the reason is that mercs unit prefer farming c-bills and mech bays to rank up with what's the most op thing of the phase.

It's history repeating. All these people in units will tell you they went IS because <reasons>, the truth is that they prefer to farm c-bills and mechbays.

You should have read all those posts about steam release, people salivating the roflstomp of newbs.

[BSK]

Then why did we pay 30 millions to break the contract when we had 6 absolute beginners in every single drop?

[Greyhart]

Of course they prefer farming c-bills and mech bays. That's the logical thing to do.

What I suggest is to make it so that it is logical for the merc companies to be distributed between the factions, because they would get less money (because it is limited) if they all went to one faction.

If the faction wants a lot of low paid contracts they offer those contracts. If a faction wants one or two high paid contracts they offer those. The merc company decides which is best value for them.

The problem is the unlimited rewards available with all factions for everyone.

I don't understand logically why anyone would be loyalist at the moment or take a contract of longer than 7 days.

EDIT

It occurs to me that merc units are really only looking for the best way to make rewards. That is the point of being a mercenary.

Loyalist are in it for something else.

Therefore change the achievement (loyalty rewards) from being faction based to being based on whether you are a loyalist, merc or lone wolf (separate reward trees). So there is no incentive to jump faction. obviously you would have to make them comparable to what is available now.

Edited by Greyhart, 04 January 2016 - 04:00 AM.

[Dashen]

BSK, on 04 January 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

Then why did we pay 30 millions to break the contract when we had 6 absolute beginners in every single drop?

It's called investment, if you paid 30mil total i'm pretty sure it's from the unit wallet, which you can split between members.

Personally i've made 15 millions by losing 80% of CW matches, i'm pretty sure IS did MUCH more by farming clan mechs.

[Hotthedd]

Keep it simple:
House/Clan Units - Individuals and Units that choose to be aligned with a faction (as we currently have)
Functions exactly as CW currently does, with the exception that house units do not defend planets belonging to other houses. Repair and re-arm is free for the player, C-bill payouts are dictated by the house (as it is now). They should have SIGNIFICANT loyalty bonuses.

Mercenaries - Individuals and Units that choose to play as mercenaries choose single mission contracts. They go where the C-bills are. Bringing up the CW map will show all contested planets, with the option to attack or defend for any House (not Clan). Supply and Demand, MRBC rating, and loyalty rank determine the payout of the contract. Repair and Re-arm costs would be the responsibility of the mercenary, and merc unit coffers can be used to offset those costs.

Loyalty Acheivements (Ranks) - Getting rid of this would cause a sh1tstorm, so it would be simpler to keep this with some tweaks:
Once a rank is reached, it cannot be re-reached. If a player or unit switches houses, or a mercenary would lose rank due to losing loyalty points with a House, they would still have to reach the next rank in the tier to reap any rewards. The current loyalty rank would add a modifier to the contract payout, so being (relatively) loyal to a certain faction, or at least NOT attacking or defending against said faction would ultimately give the highest rewards. Higher loyalty ranks would give higher contract modifiers.

MRBC rating would be completely determined by match score and W/L (sound familiar?) Ratings would be A+ down to F.

Clan players switching to I.S. would have to be mercenaries. (No House would trust them)
I.S. players switching to Clan would have to be bondsmen. (A set amount of loyalty would have to be achieved before even beginning to go up in rank, and bondsmen have to pay for repair and re-arm)

This would reward loyalty without forcing it, and allow the free market to even the queues without forcing it.
Best of all, almost nothing would need to be changed to the existing system.

[LeeNTien]

Yes, numbers do play a huge role in CW.
When two units fight each other for a planet, but one only fields one 12-team, and the other - two, the two-teams unit will either get extra wins by the ghost-drops, or by the pug-stomps.
So, even if the one-12 unit wins all their fights - the two-12s unit will take the planet in the end.

Clans have some amazing units fighting for them right now, but IS simply have more numerous units on their side (and Liao/Maric/Davion loyalists/mercs fight among themselves atm, so it's Steiner, Kurita and FRR who push Clans back). Units, that are good enough to win most of their games, unless they face some of the best units in the game, and even then its' not always clear who'd win.
I wouldn't worry though. As any mercs - those big units will switch to Clans eventually, and push them south, as before.
Unless, of course, PGI follows some advices and locks big units on one side of the conflict... then the other side's screwed =]

Edited by LeeNTien, 04 January 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[Greyhart]

I was thinking that if you did it right merc unit contract could have failure criteria and exclusivity or non competition clauses in them and bonus clauses.

provide the factions with options like that and you might find each faction begins to have its own flavour.

Further if you lock out peoples Mechs to those that have been transferred (no effect on availability in quick play) into CW (and each transferred mech have a monthly maintenance cost) the loyalist could provide free drop decks of that factions particular flavour. And a merc unit would provide drop decks to its members (again maintenance costs and R&R costs).

Edited by Greyhart, 04 January 2016 - 09:01 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Hotthedd, on 04 January 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:

Keep it simple:
House/Clan Units - Individuals and Units that choose to be aligned with a faction (as we currently have)
Functions exactly as CW currently does, with the exception that house units do not defend planets belonging to other houses. Repair and re-arm is free for the player, C-bill payouts are dictated by the house (as it is now). They should have SIGNIFICANT loyalty bonuses.

Mercenaries - Individuals and Units that choose to play as mercenaries choose single mission contracts. They go where the C-bills are. Bringing up the CW map will show all contested planets, with the option to attack or defend for any House (not Clan). Supply and Demand, MRBC rating, and loyalty rank determine the payout of the contract. Repair and Re-arm costs would be the responsibility of the mercenary, and merc unit coffers can be used to offset those costs.

Loyalty Acheivements (Ranks) - Getting rid of this would cause a sh1tstorm, so it would be simpler to keep this with some tweaks:
Once a rank is reached, it cannot be re-reached. If a player or unit switches houses, or a mercenary would lose rank due to losing loyalty points with a House, they would still have to reach the next rank in the tier to reap any rewards. The current loyalty rank would add a modifier to the contract payout, so being (relatively) loyal to a certain faction, or at least NOT attacking or defending against said faction would ultimately give the highest rewards. Higher loyalty ranks would give higher contract modifiers.

MRBC rating would be completely determined by match score and W/L (sound familiar?) Ratings would be A+ down to F.

Clan players switching to I.S. would have to be mercenaries. (No House would trust them)
I.S. players switching to Clan would have to be bondsmen. (A set amount of loyalty would have to be achieved before even beginning to go up in rank, and bondsmen have to pay for repair and re-arm)

This would reward loyalty without forcing it, and allow the free market to even the queues without forcing it.
Best of all, almost nothing would need to be changed to the existing system.

Love this. Instead of Mercs getting House "ranks," they could just have a "loyalty point" system instead. The longer they stay with a House, the more they make and the less they have to pay on rearming/repair.