157 replies to this topic

[Toothless]

I've pretty much played Clan mechs exclusively since they came out, the reason being I started with MW2 in 1995 and the Stormcrow was my favorite mech then, as it is now. I've kept up on the forums and prevailing opinions of IS/Clan balance being predominately favoring the latter.

Despite that, the past few months I've found it more and more frustrating/less fun with higher heat, all the time. Long laser times, unfavorable AC's (Although I still use LBX), keeps my damage at 500 or so on my PUG solo games.

Switch to yesterday, when I got my Maruaders (Being my second favorite mech in BT) I was amazed at how IS plays. Lasers that fire in a split second, front loaded damage, LRMs in heavy clusters. Despite being on the receiving end of these weapons for the past year +, I have only rarely taken out my old Founders catapult or Ravens, usually while hammered and looking for 'fun' throwaway games. In my MAD's I easily, EASILY achieve 800+ damage in PUG without even thinking about it (And not even playing that well, either). ERPPCS that you can fire TWO of multiple times before reaching a heat ceiling? Low heat AC, Pulse lasers that hit hard and fast?

I'm blown away by the difference, its night and day. Playing Clan is a matter of shoot, then wait. IS systems I can constantly engage.

This isnt meant as a 'the grass is greener!' post, I just wanted to voice my absolute confusion towards the player base's thoughts on what balance really is.

[Pika]

I honestly don't have any input I'm afraid, not really played IS "competitively" in years now but... Duck and cover, man. >.>

[Toothless]

Im not competitive at all, I dont play in a unit. But I have played MWO a ton, constantly since the very beginning, so I'm relatively familiar with it.

[Darian DelFord]

Think so?


Go play a Jenner which is a walking Side Torso with 30 armor for the whole mech.

[Cylian]

Darian DelFord, on 02 December 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

Go play a Jenner which is a walking Side Torso with 30 armor for the whole mech.

That actually got fixed with this patch. Spread looks good so far.

[sycocys]

It really depends on the mode.

In -Firing Line- mode (aka CW) clans have a distinct advantage of range, higher alphas, and information/weapon system elimination.

In everything else - IS does actually have the advantage for the most part simply because there is more than 1 route to engage the enemy from to make some actual use of their advantages while heavily reducing the advantages inherent to clan tech.

That being said.
If I'm in the mood for dakka, its going to be a Direwolf or Warhawk all day long. Even with the split bullets the sheer amount they can put out in rapid succession makes them brutal.

If I want to SRM or Streakboat - its Clan because for whatever reason their missiles actually seem to register.

And you are right - if I'm in a lasering mood - its IS all the way. Faster and less heat, I just plop an xl in and mitigate the range disadvantage with more speed.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I've played both IS and Clan (although mostly IS) and I see them both having strengths and weaknesses that make them pretty on par, just different.

Clan energy (longer duration and higher heat or not) is just awesome no matter how you slice it. They have great range (even if a bit shorter now),are light as crap, and hit harder than their IS counterparts. I have a EBJ with 2 LPLasers and 6 ERSLasers and it is pretty great. I tried mounting ERMLasers or MPLasers but they were too hot. Then I realized the Clan ERSLasers are pretty much IS MLasers, and it now fires cool and does nice damage. Unlike the Clans, IS SLasers and SPLasers are almost never a consideration by themselves (no quirks), but are very useful for the Clans (especially the ERSLaser). That amazed me when I finally dived into clan builds.

As for LRMs, don't let the IS missile cluster fool you, anything over LRM10s seem to have too large of a spread on the target. Clan streaming missiles may actually be more accurate (although of course less front loaded). Then again, I rarely run LRMs to begin with

Yea, Clan ballistics are still a bit of a mess, but they are light.

Overall, I think they have different properties. Each have their strengths and weaknesses. You can say IS is easy mode, but don't let quicker energy durations fool you on energy. The lack of range, damage, and weight still play a factor too (not to mention sweet Clan 2 crit slot DHS).

Things seem pretty solid right now to me. Tweak Clan ballistics a bit more, and we are looking pretty golden.

[ScreamingSkull]

IS mechs got several buffs this patch, so now many of their mechs are on the level of Thunderbolts and Stalkers.

[Mycrus]

ZacharyJ, on 02 December 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

I've pretty much played Clan mechs exclusively since they came out, the reason being I started with MW2 in 1995 and the Stormcrow was my favorite mech then, as it is now. I've kept up on the forums and prevailing opinions of IS/Clan balance being predominately favoring the latter.

Despite that, the past few months I've found it more and more frustrating/less fun with higher heat, all the time. Long laser times, unfavorable AC's (Although I still use LBX), keeps my damage at 500 or so on my PUG solo games.

Switch to yesterday, when I got my Maruaders (Being my second favorite mech in BT) I was amazed at how IS plays. Lasers that fire in a split second, front loaded damage, LRMs in heavy clusters. Despite being on the receiving end of these weapons for the past year +, I have only rarely taken out my old Founders catapult or Ravens, usually while hammered and looking for 'fun' throwaway games. In my MAD's I easily, EASILY achieve 800+ damage in PUG without even thinking about it (And not even playing that well, either). ERPPCS that you can fire TWO of multiple times before reaching a heat ceiling? Low heat AC, Pulse lasers that hit hard and fast?

I'm blown away by the difference, its night and day. Playing Clan is a matter of shoot, then wait. IS systems I can constantly engage.

This isnt meant as a 'the grass is greener!' post, I just wanted to voice my absolute confusion towards the player base's thoughts on what balance really is.

played IS exclusively... IS was slowly buffed across time (quirks, etc. etc.) as a whole I would say they are at par with clams.

[Moldur]

I wouldn't say that the IS are blatantly better than the Clans. I often forget how helpful some of the perks to clan mechs are, like the reduced weight on everything, no single ST deaths, generally faster mechs, and longer ranges. It's a slightly different ball game with each side, but you can play them both just as effectively in the end.

We're in the middle of a big balance change so I don't want to say much about the game's IS vs Clan balance right at this exact moment, but the general trend I've seen up to right now is that if you play to an IS mech's quirks, you will beat a Clan mech in that given category, unless the chassis is just bad to begin with.

For instance, clan "range advantage" is non-existent if you pick the IS mechs quirked specifically for distance. IS mechs, like the Zeus 9S iirc, had longer erLL ranges than Clan mechs.

Another example:
The IS MPLs used to have no ghost heat, and the TDR 5SS had an MPL quirked range + modules only a few meters short of clans as well as a massive heat gen and cooldown reduction. This meant that the TDR could boat 7 MPLs, and fire them all with very little heat and very fast cooldown in comparison to any clan mech. Of course, if you tried some funky ranged build, you probably wouldn't have much luck, but hey, that doesn't matter if you're playing to its strengths.

Other mechs with huge quirks allow them to play in a style that you just can't do as well with any other mech, Clan or IS (I'm looking at you Locust 1V.) You're kind of narrowed down into beingreally good at one thing.


I would like to sum up that it really feels like the game is divided into 3 mech categories, which are Clans, heavily quirked IS mechs that are just ridiculous in their given category, and all the other IS mechs that don't get nearly as much love.

[Toothless]

Darian DelFord, on 02 December 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

Think so?


Go play a Jenner which is a walking Side Torso with 30 armor for the whole mech.

Not all IS mechs are Jenners or Trebuchets.(Just like not all Clan mechs are Summoners or Novas)

[Darian DelFord]

Cylian, on 02 December 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

That actually got fixed with this patch. Spread looks good so far.

Not being sarcastic here but how do you figure?

The Tests that I ran they moved the ST back a whopping 2 centimeters from the front. The CT is still 99% encapsulated in the ST still. Making it a walking ST.

Now if i am missing something please let me know. I played in my Oxide almost all day yesterday after my 10 or so matches in my Jenner -F. The difference in survive ability was astounding.

No matter what angle you hit the Jenner from unless its straight on, you hit that ST. With the exception of those front 4 pixels. I know there is a thread that shows the Hit Boxes that the community does, but can't find it for the life of me to see if someone has visulized them yet.

Granted more testing is definately needed before I go on a rant, but my short stint and testing in the F was not good.

ZacharyJ, on 02 December 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Not all IS mechs are Jenners or Trebuchets.(Just like not all Clan mechs are Summoners or Novas)

NO arguments here friend :>

Edited by Darian DelFord, 02 December 2015 - 04:15 AM.

[El Bandito]

ZacharyJ, on 02 December 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

Is = Easy Mode?

Laughable thread, coming from a Stormcrow pilot. Only mechs such as TDR-5SS are considered easy mode, but it was nerfed this patch.

As for Marauders, they never impressed me. I did a group drop with the 1 FWG folks and they constantly had lower score with their Marauders, than my BJ-3. So did the enemies, with their Marauders.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 December 2015 - 04:36 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Though my general feeling is that clan mechs should always be superior to IS mechs for lore's sake (and their cost made disproportionately high for balance), PGI has determined not to do this, and instead try to give each side superiority in certain areas for gameplay purposes. Alas.

In the current game however, as long as clan mechs don't die outright due to torso loss they will be superior at least as far as match longevity, and the ability to effectively port more weapons. IS do more damage in the laser vomit (at the moment, and for the most part) but clans still have notable exceptions even there (the clan staple of the the ERML for example is closer in performance to a 5 ton IS large laser).

But I digress...as to the OP comparing his/her majority of historical clan play to a fairly recent run with the brand new Marauder is misleading. This would be like me (a life long IS player who has only dabbled with a clan Mist Lynx) suddenly deciding to play an Arctic Cheetah and deciding that since this mech can stand up to one or more of any IS mech and win, therefore Clan's are easy mode. Neither a Marauder nor an Arctic Cheetah is representative or even suggestive of their respective groups (same conclusions in a Vindicator and a Summoner?).

As to the implication that the Marauder is a superior mech, I agree. After an evening of facing off dozens of them while continuing to level up my Enforcers (though I am not sure why I am bothering anymore) I can agree that the Marauders appear far tougher, and are more of a sustained threat than an Orion or Black Knight. As to their comparison to a Timberwolf however...only time will tell.

Edited by Bud Crue, 02 December 2015 - 04:42 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

Quote

In -Firing Line- mode (aka CW) clans have a distinct advantage of range, higher alphas, and information/weapon system elimination.

This is really funny because ive seen the uber clan firing line wrecked everytime a decent IS team shows up with their super heat efficient ballistic and laser boats, waits around a corner, and then rushes the firing line. The clan firing line always gets destroyed because they cannot fire fast enough with their pathetic heat efficiency (and subpar ACs) and the range advantage is meaningless when you can easily use terrain to negate it.

HHOD/ARMD is doing it on Ulan Bator now, go ask them how its done.

Speed has never been a great advantage. Before clans came out, peope almost always chose tonnage over speed for a reason, and mechs like the summoner are proof that speed isnt as great an advantage as people claim. And some IS builds with standard engines can come very close to the speed and firepower of a clan XL mech thanks to quirks, except they have the advantage of a standard engine.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 02 December 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[Mumuharra]

I agree with OPs opinion so far as IS mechs are more fun to play than clan mechs.

After the first Clans arrived I started with DRWs and TBRs. Then also got SCRs, HBRs and my first light.
They where a blast in the first months and I loved them and was much more successfull than with my IS.

But after some time and several nerfs I went back to IS mechs and was astonished how much fun they were after the quirkening and how much better the weapons feel (AC, UAC, LRM).
From then on I almost play exclusivly IS mechs again in PUG.

I dont want to go so far they are better than clan mechs but for me they are MUCH more fun to play and I only fall back to clan for some DRW sessions .
Definitley not easyer than clans but - somehow more character (hard to express in a foreign language).

[Cylian]

Darian DelFord, on 02 December 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

Not being sarcastic here but how do you figure? <snip>

Running a Jenner and basically loosing the armor quite evenly on center and sidetorsos. With the usually <Boom> -> dead Alpha strike in between.
Then running walking Marauders around and shooting Jenners that somehow display the same kind of damage spread.

Before this patch it was usually more like STs almost gone instantly, CT maybe orange. Same with Catapults, but didn't get around to play them yet.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lolz. No.

Clan XL
7 crit Ferro and Endo
2 crit DHS
3 ton lighter Gauss
Er Medium Lasers with Large Laser range
Clan pulse lasers are probably the best weapon not named Gauss Rifle in the game. Longer burn than IS, but massively longer range.

Half weight LRM and SRMs.

Streak 4 and 6.

ACs not PP-FLD, but burst is short now weigh less and can lay out twice the damage.

Best mech in each class respectively?

DireWolf
Timberwolf
Stormcrow
Arctic Cheetah

And the only one it's even close is the Direwolf. Timby, Hellby and Cauldron Born all better than any IS Heavy.

Quirks keep some IS chassis from being laughed out of the building, but that's it. Most IS mechs would give up engine choices for an immortal XL.

[El Bandito]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 December 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

Lolz. No.

Clan XL
7 crit Ferro and Endo
2 crit DHS
3 ton lighter Gauss
Er Medium Lasers with Large Laser range
Clan pulse lasers are probably the best weapon not named Gauss Rifle in the game. Longer burn than IS, but massively longer range.

Half weight LRM and SRMs.

Streak 4 and 6.

ACs not PP-FLD, but burst is short now weigh less and can lay out twice the damage.

Best mech in each class respectively?

DireWolf
Timberwolf
Stormcrow
Arctic Cheetah

And the only one it's even close is the Direwolf. Timby, Hellby and Cauldron Born all better than any IS Heavy.

Quirks keep some IS chassis from being laughed out of the building, but that's it. Most IS mechs would give up engine choices for an immortal XL.

Need to add "free CASE covering even the limbs" there, Bishop. Oh, and the Clans have a nifty little equipment called Targeting Computer to make their weapons more killy, while the Spheroids are stuck with the never used Command Console. Clan Battlemechs are gonna open up a whole new can of worms.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 December 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[Lugh]

El Bandito, on 02 December 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Laughable thread, coming from a Stormcrow pilot. Only mechs such as TDR-5SS are considered easy mode, but it was nerfed this patch.

As for Marauders, they never impressed me. I did a group drop with the 1 FWG folks and they constantly had lower score with their Marauders, than my BJ-3. So did the enemies, with their Marauders.

Comparing a new unmastered mech set against the new Ultra quirked already mastered quirkening overlord mech is hardly fair...