157 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 03 December 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

Psst, I'll let you in on a little secret "know it all elite roxxorz master race pilot", I put that together in abotu 2 minutes in Smurfy because I didn't have that particular 4N build saved in my mechbay there.

But we'll chock it up to you just being superior if that makes you feel better and now you can run around MWO basking in your personal glory. Merry Christmas to you sir

You don't have to take it so personally man, you can just say oops and move on. Your build had issues that I pointed out, no need to get upset.

Merry Christmas

[Brollocks]

GalmOne, on 03 December 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

Not to mention it becomes impossible for clans to counter the ERLL spam from IS

Hyperbole IIC

[MechWarrior5152251]

Mystere, on 02 December 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

I thought it was the Arctic Cheetah ... ahem, I meant ... Cheater?

I have not yet mastered the Cheater, but I would guess that Crows require less skill and reflexes to make the same scores as Cheaters. ACH lacks enough free tonnage for sufficient heat sinks. They both soak damage about equally, but the SCR can pack a massive alpha with lots of cooling.

[MischiefSC]

Pfft. Don't let them talk you into being a meta-*****. You can do just as well in a stock Dragon/whatever your favorite Frankenmech is as you can in an optimized meta build. You just have to BELIEVE. If you still lose to someone in a meta build it's because they use Teh HAX, like lazor glow tweak, not because they are better players in better mechs.

Remember the two key rules to success:

1. If you lose it's not your fault. You are already as good as the best players in the game, they all just cheat. Keep doing what you're already doing that isn't winning and you'll just start to win more often. It works on the same principle as Trickle Down economics.

2. Playing in Frankenmechs is like exercising with extra weights. You'll lose again and again and again but you will magically absorb the skills that drives wins. The idea that you get good at something by practicing good habits and not practicing bad habits is a lie spread by The Man to keep you down.

Edited by MischiefSC, 03 December 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 03 December 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

You don't have to take it so personally man, you can just say oops and move on. Your build had issues that I pointed out, no need to get upset.

Merry Christmas

I'm not taking it personally, I'm just pointing out, like I have for years now, that "bad" builds and "good" builds are a matter of opinion.

There are tons of "good" builds that I just don't do well in. They don't fit my personal play style. There are tons of "bad" builds I do very well in because they fit my play style.

I've run 5LL stalkers and other variants of LL boats since just after CB and I've got a positive KDR, W/L, make money, etc. I've listened for years how "lasers suck and you suck because you aren't min/maxing" while I take those mechs out and do what "can't" be done in them

[Jun Watarase]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 03 December 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Funny how people running doomcrows, timberwolves, and swaguars have no problem doing damage...

Except that i wasn't making that claim in this thread.

[Wing 0]

When I see I.S mechs I call them HANDICAP BOOSTERS! LOL were not using structure buffs of +30 or so. Sorry kiddies.

[GeneralArmchair]

If IS is so easy, I'd like to see some clams put their money where their mouth is and sell off their stable of clan mechs to purchase a stable of IS mechs instead.

[El Bandito]

GeneralArmchair, on 03 December 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

If IS is so easy, I'd like to see some clams put their money where their mouth is and sell off their stable of clan mechs to purchase a stable of IS mechs instead.

A Clanner and his meta mechs are not easily parted.

[Jun Watarase]

GeneralArmchair, on 03 December 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

If IS is so easy, I'd like to see some clams put their money where their mouth is and sell off their stable of clan mechs to purchase a stable of IS mechs instead.

That kind of goes both ways. The funny thing is I've seen a 7 man from a clan unit get stomped by random pugs boating LPLs, LLs and med pulse 4 times now while trying to attack Skallevoll. So far the only clan unit i've seen do well against an opposing IS unit was...either AWOL or SWOL, i can't remember.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 03 December 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

MischiefSC, on 03 December 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Yep. Caught us. All the comp teams in the game don't actually know how the game works and every single respected ranking system for what mechs/builds work best are wrong.

It's a huge conspiracy. The NSA helps coordinate with our own special bureau with the UN to help coordinate the conspiracy globally.

Or Clans still have the best mech in every category and best several heavies, even if the IS has a couple specific chassis that are not too far behind in specific situations.

I'd go with the huge conspiracy.

Which definition of competitive are we using here?

[Thanatos31]

I have to agree with the easy mode.

I have been playing as a clan loyalist ever since clans came out and just recently stopped playing due to a general burnout and massive frustration with the change of clan technology.

All clan players will agree- you make it work somehow...by Alfa after Alfa while hiding before overheating, hoping that no one pulls you into a brawl. But playing IS simply feels easier.
For me the most laughable argument on the current balance state is the argument that range plays such a huge role- reality shows that heat is a much bigger factor.

Every clan player should try out IS - even unelited with no skills bought - it's eye opening.

[Adamski]

I know for competitive events I pull out my Clan mechs, and I otherwise play my IS mechs for general lore reasons.

Clan underperformers and IS underperformers are fairly equal matches for each other, same with the top tier Clan mechs vs IS top tier mechs. (I'm not entirely convinced a TDR can go 1v1 with an EBJ, or a MAD/OR1/BL with a TBR, but I feel they are pretty close)

It is a matter of playing to your mechs strengths.
Just like IS has to play to whatever quirks are given and try to find the best matchup of weapon quirks to chassis tonnage available to model size, Clan mechs have to find the best combination of weapons for their available tonnage and play style.

[Y E O N N E]

Phil Ambush, on 03 December 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

I have to agree with the easy mode.

I have been playing as a clan loyalist ever since clans came out and just recently stopped playing due to a general burnout and massive frustration with the change of clan technology.

All clan players will agree- you make it work somehow...by Alfa after Alfa while hiding before overheating, hoping that no one pulls you into a brawl. But playing IS simply feels easier.
For me the most laughable argument on the current balance state is the argument that range plays such a huge role- reality shows that heat is a much bigger factor.

Every clan player should try out IS - even unelited with no skills bought - it's eye opening.

Benefits of increased range diminish past 450-500 meters. Similarly, benefits of short burn duration diminish under ~0.8 seconds.

That said, Clans have actually always been superior brawlers, it's just that the most potent mode of play is/was the mid-range poke-off; brawling required coordination to reliably pull-off. Since there was no way the IS could actually compete on the poke ton-for-ton, you often saw them go the other way and try to use the drawbacks of the poke against its users. But when a Clan 'Mech got built for brawling? There was nothing in the IS arsenal that could touch it.

As for heat, Clan-tech is honestly to blame for that, but not in the way you might think. Because the Clan 'Mechs have so many hardpoints and because each individual weapon is longer ranged and higher-powered per ton, it makes it easy to abuse. The way PGI did it, you could actually run colder than a pre-quirk IS 'Mech in the majority of cases if you were willing to settle for a typical IS-sized group-strike. Instead, everybody did what we all knew they would do and min-maxed it for the biggest group-strike feasible, creating enormous levels of power-creep and requiring the nerf-bat on the Clan laser heat and super quirks on the IS 'Mechs.

[MischiefSC]

Jun Watarase, on 03 December 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

Which definition of competitive are we using here?

I would say the competitive people in the top row - most the top tier competitive groups don't play CW except for a lark and to grind cbills/xp.

However, regardless of your opinion of most 'competitive' tier players being happy to grind cbills/xp against people way under their skill level it's worth mentioning that they play Clans and agree consistently that Clans are better than IS, especially in CW where you've got to have a deck of one vs the other. In 8v8 league matches you'll see a couple specific IS variants in specific niche roles but for qualifications, 2v2 or anything without much in the way of limits you'll see a pile of Clan heavies. Again, top mech in every single class is a Clan mech. Sure, Clans have some bad chassis - so does the IS. All the worst chassis in each weight class are IS mechs as well - even the worst Clan mechs are better than the worst IS mechs, same as the best Clan mechs are better than the best IS mechs.

This is due to overall balance issues that PGI has pretty clearly shown they're not going to address. So instead you get quirks, which will ensure there's always way superior and way inferior mechs and balance is forever impossible.

[Mystere]

pwnface, on 03 December 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Missing a free heatsink is a pretty egregious error to those of us atop Mt. Tryhard.

Masada eventually fell.

[Lugh]

MischiefSC, on 03 December 2015 - 06:02 PM, said:

Pfft. Don't let them talk you into being a meta-*****. You can do just as well in a stock Dragon/whatever your favorite Frankenmech is as you can in an optimized meta build. You just have to BELIEVE. If you still lose to someone in a meta build it's because they use Teh HAX, like lazor glow tweak, not because they are better players in better mechs.

Remember the two key rules to success:

1. If you lose it's not your fault. You are already as good as the best players in the game, they all just cheat. Keep doing what you're already doing that isn't winning and you'll just start to win more often. It works on the same principle as Trickle Down economics.

2. Playing in Frankenmechs is like exercising with extra weights. You'll lose again and again and again but you will magically absorb the skills that drives wins. The idea that you get good at something by practicing good habits and not practicing bad habits is a lie spread by The Man to keep you down.

Well taking a Frankenmech works fine if you play correctly, and don't go thinking you can win this entire game on your own with your 2 large pulse lasers.

If you play your mech as a force multiplier for a mech you know to be better than your own, you'll both live longer, and you can rack up good damage and kills while the other guys go Meh kitfox /now kill the DW,TBR,SCR first.

But you know this already Gunny. You also broke my sarcasm meter. Please inbox me a new one

[TygerLily]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 December 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Who is telling you that IS laser boats are super heat efficient? They are lying to you. IS lasers generate less heat yes, but IS mechs on average will equip 6-7 less DHS for a comparable alpha.

And yes, the better team will wreck the ****** team, no matter who has what tech.


As far as the OP goes, I think the jury is still out. I pretty much only played Marauders last night so I haven't messed with the Clan stuff much yet, but I think for now people are still trying stuff out. We will have to wait and see how things settle out.

Agreed, I'm super interested to see how things shake out. What sorts of decks are you looking at dude?
(PS CH is doing Kurita for Tukkayid too, can we join you guys on occasion?)