9 replies to this topic

[Pugger]

Hey guys...

Just had a passing thought about lance tactics and I was wondering what the good folks at the FRR think.

I mostly play CW... like 90% of my games. I enjoy the gamemode and teamplay that it requires. However, because of the narrow chokepoints, and general 'group up' mentality, I often find myself in a mess of collisions, confusion and sticky teleporting that this game employs to un-stick two or more mechs. Do others share this same experience?

If so, I think we should try lance coordination. We currently have two mechanisms for voice comms: teamspeak and in-game VOIP. Imagine a teamspeak channel call CW Drop 1, with three subchannels: Alpha Lance, Bravo Lance and Charlie Lance. Each player as part of the drop would go to their appropriate subchannel. We could still have one drop commander, who will issue large tactical orders via VOIP (in game)... how each lance carries out those orders (focus firing, coordinating movements) they do on their own until the next order.

This would offer us the ability to choose a separate route to arrive at point 'X', let us focus fire at enemies closer to our own lance, loosen the murder ball while at the same time preserving team coordination, or so I imagine. I'd like to at least try it to see if it has any merit, or if it's half-baked (or fully baked).

Any takers? Opinions?

[-Vompo-]

How would it benefit the team that the drop commanders voice is worse quality and that the lances have harder time communicating with each other? Surely the most efficient way is to have all players on one channel so they can all give information to each other in the most efficient way possible.

You also don't want to spread the lances away from each other. If you do the enemy has easy job of attacking one lance after another 12 vs. 4 and crushing them in seconds. There is a reason we have the term murder ball. Having all the players on one channel doesn't prevent people from saying "charlie lance move through (coordinates) and join alpha and bravo on (coordinates).

Simple tactics are often the best.

[Tarogato]

For the record, the Isengrim tried this once upon a time long long ago before I was a member. I remember hearing that it didn't go well and that it was a lot more trouble than its worth. Of course, the game didn't have VOIP back then, but still - it's a lot of fuss to achieve such a similar result that could be achieved by ordinary means with crisp communication and situational awareness. If anybody must resort to dividing lances into different teamspeak channels, it's only a crutch when the real solution to the "problem" is to only communicate the most relevant details in the most succinct manner possible. Also, if lances are split up to the point where they are involved in different engagements and require independent target calling, then usually something is going horribly wrong.

[Jarl Dane]

Tarogato, on 24 November 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

For the record, the Isengrim tried this once upon a time long long ago before I was a member...

Yeah. It didn't work out well. This was before CW or anything and we'd try to put our lights in a separate place for communication, using the whisper function in TS for the Drop Commander to communicate with the Lance Commander, and the Lance Commander to communicate with the Drop Commander.
First it created a communication delay, as the Lance Commander had to repeat the Drop Commander's orders to his lance, and vice versa has the Lance Commander had to repeat his Lances information to the Drop Commander.

Next, in later stages of the match when lances broke down and maybe you had just a few badly damaged mechs fighting a few badly damaged enemy mechs - it was only a further impediment to communication.

We've done much better with keeping everyone on the same comms with minimal chatter.

[Windscape]

i think using both things to speak with is more trouble than its worth...

[Texas Red IS]

4CAV has played with it, with some success. We found that having all 12 on the same TS channel was creating problems with maintaining communications discipline, and that targets called out for one lance were usually not applicable to at least one of the other lances (due to terrain, obstacles, lines-of-sight, etc.). So we put each lance on it's own TS channel (using VOX) and the mission commander used VOIP (PTT) to issue unit orders. Any lance member who needed to address the whole unit simply pushed the PTT button and sang out.

That scenario assumes that you have the cooperation of the whole drop, the coordination to get the right people onto the right TS channels and that the lances actually stay together. Under those conditions I think it can be a useful tool.

YMMV,

Tommy

[Pugger]

Well, I guess that settles that. Good to know it's been tried and tested. I'll let that idea die on the vine.

[Sjorpha]

I think it's a better alternative to have an assistant to the drop commander that calls out alternative targets when you get split or takes control of a flanking group as needed and so on, and takes command if the drop commander dies.

I also think that lances are just not critical mass most of the time, if you're doing split pushes it's better to split 6/6 or sometimes 8/4 if the 4 are good lights who can disengage well.

[GeneralArmchair]

Pugger, on 24 November 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

Well, I guess that settles that. Good to know it's been tried and tested. I'll let that idea die on the vine.

It's not that your idea was bad. In fact, it is smart and is done in the real world. The issue is that on the small scale seen in MWO, a single communication channel can be all you really need to keep people organized (assuming you don't have any bad apples throwing a wrench in the works).

In a real army or a larger scale game like Planetside 2 where potentially hundreds of individuals are trying to work together with some cohesion, then it makes sense to compartmentalize communication into squad channels and command channels.

[Trev Firestorm]

In a game like battlefield you can do this for your pilots because they are effectively fighting a separate game while coordinating ground support through your commander or as above mentioned planetside would be impossible without separation between squad comms, in mwo there are too few people all fighting the same localized battles (unless something has gone wrong) because the maps are too small for splitting the lances to make any kind of sense and often simply isn't possible due to map layout.