172 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

The plus side is you can cut your ammo tonnage in half for all your gauss rifle builds now... because you will never have time to shoot the rest of them

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 06 December 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

Methinks you missed the point.

Then please enlighten me. What point are you trying to make?

[HollowBassman]

Mystere, on 04 December 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

I have a question. What practical advantage does a vacuum tube have over the transistor that replaced it?

It sounds warmer and produces a more pleasant overdrive when pushed to clipping. If it weren't for the weight savings and the assumption of less maintenance with transistors, tube amplifiers would likely still be the benchmark in instrument amplifiers. I don't think I'm exaggerating to say most lead guitarist still use tube amps because the sound is so much better.

[Mystere]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 December 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Then please enlighten me. What point are you trying to make?

I don't have to. Check the other responses to my post that are on the right track.

Edited by Mystere, 06 December 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

I was playing my Dual Gauss 6ML Mauler yesterday and it felt fine.
If anything the changes force you to bring backup weapons to support your sniping weapon.

If they change anything (which frankly I dont think they need to) they should either make the Gauss have a 5 second cooldown or keep it 5.5 and remove the charge.

It's stupid easy to hit targets for anyone who can aim and 15 pinpoint damage per shot.
It's designed to be a long range weapon. Now it is.
I dont see why people are crying about it.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 06 December 2015 - 08:47 AM.

[Zordicron]

Well, this thread keeps getting moved up to the top of GD.

Goose waffle cooldowns from MW4:
IS: 6 seconds
Clan: 8 seconds

Onoz, MWO goosewaffle is a smidge over 6 with the charge time! I still see them in game in every match, and they were top tier in MW4 even with the longest cooldown(besides some of the lol stuff mektek put in like that rail gun)

IMO, they should put the cooldowns just like MW4, 6 and 8, and remove charge up mechanic. Yeah, the gun becomes easier to use, but the hard counter would be high damage brawl range weapons, like it should be. The low DPS and bad brawling of the goose would then offset its host of huge plus side benefits. If they would be worried about people rocking 3 at once(no charge limitation) I am sure some other hard lock could be come up with.

But, I think the charge is here to stay, and PGI has no motive to differentiate the IS and clan version because mix tech is not a thing that exists in MWO, so each version need only be "balanced" within it's own group.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 06 December 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

I don't have to. Check the other responses to my post that are on the right track.

If you have a point to make, make it clearly and concisely. If you think making others puzzle out your meaning makes you look like a cool smart guy, you're wrong.

[Y E O N N E]

Even I am not sure what the track was, but I think it was something along the lines of Clans being able to use more advanced but finicky stuff to achieve the same result as IS using less precise but more robust technologies. The end result is that they have the same capabilities, same drawbacks and same durability despite differences in size and weight.

Tl;dr: science of materials is a boss.

[Mystere]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 December 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

If you have a point to make, make it clearly and concisely. If you think making others puzzle out your meaning makes you look like a cool smart guy, you're wrong.

Sigh, others already mentioned it:

• big, durable, heavy vs. small, fragile, light

It just requires simple logic, no fantasy required.

Edited by Mystere, 06 December 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 06 December 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Sigh, others already mentioned it:

• big, durable, heavy vs. small, fragile, light

It's simple logic, no fantasy required.

Or for once, it could be exactly what it appears on the surface and not as metacognitive as it typically is with Mystere.

[FupDup]

This is where I shamelessly repeat my idea of reducing IS Goose explosion damage to 15 and increasing health a bit, while not giving that to the Clam version.

[Mystere]

Yeonne Greene, on 06 December 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Tl;dr: science of materials is a boss.

It help to have degrees in or know people who work in Materials Science, Physics, and Engineering.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Mystere, on 06 December 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Sigh, others already mentioned it:

• big, durable, heavy vs. small, fragile, light

It just requires simple logic, no fantasy required.

Giving it higher HP isn't a useful advantage for 3 tons and 1 slot.

[Y E O N N E]

Mystere, on 06 December 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

It help to have degrees in or know people who work in Materials Science, Physics, and Engineering.

*whistling innocently*

[Koniks]

Let's just make the best weapons in the game the best at all ranges, the best at DPS, and the best at pinpoint burst damage. Call it a day.

It's a shame I have to change my loadouts and mechs if I want to fight at different ranges. Nothing should be as good as the dual Gauss Ebon Jaguar.

[Pjwned]

Mizeur, on 06 December 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Let's just make the best weapons in the game the best at all ranges, the best at DPS, and the best at pinpoint burst damage. Call it a day.

It's a shame I have to change my loadouts and mechs if I want to fight at different ranges. Nothing should be as good as the dual Gauss Ebon Jaguar.

1. Nice strawman.
2. I will repeat myself here; that says more about other weapons being bad than it does about gauss being good. Why do people not use weapons like machine guns, SRMs, LBX cannons, etc? Because they're bad? Hint: the answer is yes.

[Koniks]

Pjwned, on 06 December 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

1. Nice strawman.
2. I will repeat myself here; that says more about other weapons being bad than it does about gauss being good. Why do people not use weapons like machine guns, SRMs, LBX cannons, etc? Because they're bad? Hint: the answer is yes.

No, it doesn't. You can't claim that other weapons being bad was the problem when everyone also claimed that time to kill was too fast. Since Gauss was a key part of that, it needed to be nerfed.

Gauss still has a place in the ecosystem as a long range, minimal heat sniper weapon. SRMs and most of the others now also have their place, too.

[Pjwned]

Mizeur, on 06 December 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

No, it doesn't. You can't claim that other weapons being bad was the problem when everyone also claimed that time to kill was too fast. Since Gauss was a key part of that, it needed to be nerfed.

It was quirks that were a key part of that, and largely still are.

Quote

Gauss still has a place in the ecosystem as a long range, minimal heat sniper weapon.

That's what it was in the first place and then it saw a huge cooldown nerf that wasn't needed.

Quote

SRMs and most of the others now also have their place, too.

Except they don't because they're still bad.

[Koniks]

Pjwned, on 06 December 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

It was quirks that were a key part of that, and largely still are.

No, it was the introduction of Clan laser boats and Gauss+laser builds. Quirks were a response to that.

Quote

That's what it was in the first place and then it saw a huge cooldown nerf that wasn't needed.

No, Gauss was a feature of mid-range builds that were also effective brawlers. I could brawl effectively in a dual Gauss EBJ with 3ERSLs.

Quote

Except they don't because they're still bad.

We must be playing a different game. Next you'll tell me LRMs are OP.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Gauss was only OP when it was on a Direwolf with massive laser spam to supplement it.

Gauss was also only OP on retardlevel quirked mechs such as Hunchback-GI or Warhawk.

I haven't used Gauss much at lately, I've weened myself off and been sticking to UAC-10 or ac-5 the most, but now.. its extremely difficult to justify using it with this low of a cycle rate.

The few mechs that made it a problem, are the ones that are supposed to wreck everything, KingCrab, Direwolf, Jagmech, EbonJag. but each and everyone of them have their weaknesses.

Direwolf, usually low mounted, or you put it in the torso which is easily knocked out.
KingCrab, low arms, means you have to be setup in a very exposed position to even fire them +wide convergence lanes so leading distant mobile targets is impossible to land both shots.
Jagmech, paper arms and legs, both easy targets.
EbonJag, Giant CT, usually stripped leg armor for ammo.

I honestly never saw a problem with how Gauss functioned ingame.

The problems I did see, was the imbalance between Clan and IS, but only where CASE was concerned.
Clans don't deal with section bleedthrough from explosions, don't have to worry about instadeath from XL 1 torso destruction.

And the only reason to use Gauss in the first place, is because the only other alternative for Clans to use Ballistics, are unreliable, crappy Auto-Jammers.

The Jam mechanic for UAC is awful, and the standard C-AC variants are inferior not only to Clan-UAC, but to every single IS autocannon as well, there simply is no other choice for ballistics that makes sense and is reliable other than Gauss.

Lack of a reliable and cost effective ballistic for clans is why Gauss is overused, and why lasers are so easily turned to.
We never got LBX/AC ammo swap, russ stated that its just not possible with code, and LBX are terrible weapons, so there are 8 weapons just right there in the garbage can.

IS doesn't have to worry about it so much, they have an entire lineup of ballistics that just flat out work, not to mention are quirked up the *** on just about every ballistic mech the IS has.

IS mechs also have the advantage right now with Gauss, because of so many ballistic quirks.

I honestly don't see why or how Gauss got the hammer so hard, other than 2 clanmechs being halfway efficient with them, it really wasn't a problem.

What we do need though, is a fix to how CASE works in InnerSphere mechs, if you put it in a torso, it needs to stop a Gauss explosion from damaging internals, and protect from adjacent bleedthrough from arms. That would make a huge difference.

Second, is to exclude Gauss cooldowns from any ballistic quirks, Period.
Gauss should be equal between both factions in DPS and function, and neither should gain any advantage via quirks.

Return gauss cooldowns back to where they were @ 3.0 dps.

Edited by Mister D, 06 December 2015 - 02:48 PM.